max. allowed level of hematocrit



sopas

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What is the max. allowed level of hematocrit in cycling???

I ask because a few days ago I did a blood test and my level was 50.5%. I am only an amateur triathlete but I was surprised my hematocrit level was so high. Needless to say that I don't take any substances (EPO, etc.). Is 50.5% normal for an adult human?? I live in Madrid which is not very high over sea level, about 700 meters or so, so I don't think that is the cause. Perhaps my body generates a high level of hematocric in a natural way??

Thank you very much.
 

Lonnie Utah

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Aug 21, 2004
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My understanding is it's 50%. 50.5% doesn't look good for you. You must have your micro-epo doses down to a science. Better hold back on the injections for the next few days if you have a race.... ;)

All kidding aside, I think these numbers are really interesting. To me, it gives creedence to the all the guys who proclaim "I'm not doping" with similar hemtocrit numbers. See all you doping skeptics, it CAN happen without the dope....

L

Edit: A google search found that the "normal" levels for adults are between 40%-54%....

L
 

sopas

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Thanks for your reply.
According to my doctor, which is a normal doctor who treats anybody, the results of my blood test were OK. The paper copy I got indicates that anything between 37 and 53.7 is OK. That is why that made me think what the hell is happening in cycling where if you have more than 50 people think you are doped!!!
 

bobke

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sopas said:
Thanks for your reply.
According to my doctor, which is a normal doctor who treats anybody, the results of my blood test were OK. The paper copy I got indicates that anything between 37 and 53.7 is OK. That is why that made me think what the hell is happening in cycling where if you have more than 50 people think you are doped!!!

J Vaughters, E Dekker, Cunego all have Hcts in 50-52% range.
All the time.
Just lucky I guess.
 

sopas

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hombredesubaru said:
J Vaughters, E Dekker, Cunego all have Hcts in 50-52% range.
All the time.
Just lucky I guess.
Interesting. Were they banned????

If I remember correctly, back in 1997, when EPO drug was still not detectable in the body and there was no EPO test available, there were talks to ban all riders which had more than %50 level of hematocrit. That means that if I were a pro-rider I would have been banned for no reason!!!! Was this measure applied??

I guess that since year 2001, even if you have a let's say %52 you are OK if you test negative in the EPO test, correct?

I found the following on the internet:

1) EPO is a naturally occurring substance in the body. Could an athlete who lives at altitude or has great genetics and thus might have more EPO in their body naturally than a normal person, test positive for EPO?

No. Currently, to be convicted of an EPO offense athletes must test positive for EPO with the urine EPO test. The urine EPO test is not an indirect test that detects unusually high EPO levels. Rather, it is a direct test that detects the actual presence of recombinant EPO (EPO from a source outside the body). Thus, it would be foolish for an athlete to argue that the test was just showing a naturally high level of natural EPO. As Dr. Catlin said to us, with the urine EPO test the testers "see a footprint of the (recombinant EPO) molecule". The World Anti-Doping Report of March 11, 2003, evaluating the urine EPO test concluded, "the urine EPO test is the only existing test to directly evaluate and prove the EPO abuse of athletes"


http://www.letsrun.com/2003/epoqa.php
 

Ullefan

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If a rider's haematocrit is above 50%, the rider will not be allowed to start the following day and will be suspended from racing for 2 weeks. This is not a positive test, but it's done for safety reasons. Riders who naturally have a haematocrit above 50% would need to have it proven by a doctors certificate if they are allowed to race.
 

whiteboytrash

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Ullefan said:
If a rider's haematocrit is above 50%, the rider will not be allowed to start the following day and will be suspended from racing for 2 weeks. This is not a positive test, but it's done for safety reasons. Riders who naturally have a haematocrit above 50% would need to have it proven by a doctors certificate if they are allowed to race.
Thanks Ulle was just going to post this....... the reason they do it is that most cyclists would be dead if they went any higher than 55%....... The TDF do it not to test for EPO but to ensure they at least get some riders to finish in Paris.... otherwise there would be gravesites all over France....... every other major Tour does the same test......... some people have a naturally high haematocrit level and they require a doctors certificate as Ulle pointed out.... most people know that EPO usage leads to a high haematocrit levels.... however EPO is tested in a seperate test at doping control....
 

bobke

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hombredesubaru said:
J Vaughters, E Dekker, Cunego all have Hcts in 50-52% range.
All the time.
Just lucky I guess.


No they have been this way their whole lives and have doctors letters stating this.
 

DV1976

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Probably the reason why 50% sounds high is because the average crit for a male is in the range of 42-44% (I have a crit of 41% :mad: :mad: :mad: )
 

artemidorus

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sopas said:
What is the max. allowed level of hematocrit in cycling???

I ask because a few days ago I did a blood test and my level was 50.5%. I am only an amateur triathlete but I was surprised my hematocrit level was so high. Needless to say that I don't take any substances (EPO, etc.). Is 50.5% normal for an adult human?? I live in Madrid which is not very high over sea level, about 700 meters or so, so I don't think that is the cause. Perhaps my body generates a high level of hematocric in a natural way??

Thank you very much.
50.5% is within some normal ranges but is uncommonly high.
There are a number of causes for a high Hct apart from EPO abuse. They include dehydration, heavy smoking, emphysema, obstructive or central sleep apnoea, weakness of the muscles of breathing such as in chronic neurological conditions, severe obesity, certain forms of congenital heart disease, long stays at high altitude, certain chronic malignancies of the bone marrow and heavy training.

Do any of these apply to you?
 

MJtje

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Well E. dekker was out of the worlds in 99 because he had an to high crit......but Rabo issued a statement that e. dekker didn't use epo and that it was due to a to tight stuwband (anyone a translation!)



hombredesubaru said:
No they have been this way their whole lives and have doctors letters stating this.
 

sopas

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artemidorus said:
50.5% is within some normal ranges but is uncommonly high.
There are a number of causes for a high Hct apart from EPO abuse. They include dehydration, heavy smoking, emphysema, obstructive or central sleep apnoea, weakness of the muscles of breathing such as in chronic neurological conditions, severe obesity, certain forms of congenital heart disease, long stays at high altitude, certain chronic malignancies of the bone marrow and heavy training.

Do any of these apply to you?
NO, not really. I am 185 cm tall (6' 1") and weight 73 Kilograms (about 160-65 pounds), and I currently run, swimm, and ride, 6 days a week. So, I am in good shape right now and I don't have any sickness. My hart rate currently stands at about 45-50 at rest. I don't have any problems breathing either.
 

whiteboytrash

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sopas said:
NO, not really. I am 185 cm tall (6' 1") and weight 73 Kilograms (about 160-65 pounds), and I currently run, swimm, and ride, 6 days a week. So, I am in good shape right now and I don't have any sickness. My hart rate currently stands at about 45-50 at rest. I don't have any problems breathing either.
You're awesome ! Hey chics check out this guy... he is Conan !
 

Ullefan

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sopas said:
NO, not really. I am 185 cm tall (6' 1") and weight 73 Kilograms (about 160-65 pounds), and I currently run, swimm, and ride, 6 days a week. So, I am in good shape right now and I don't have any sickness. My hart rate currently stands at about 45-50 at rest. I don't have any problems breathing either.
Do you do alternate days like:
Day 1-Run
Day 2-Bike
Day 3-Swim

or do you do two things on the same day? I ask this because I go to the gym 4-5 times a week, doing kick-boxing 1-2 times a week and I always try to get in weight work on upper and lower body 1-2 times a week. In addition I'll try to get in at least an hour a day of intense CV training, if i'm tired, that will usually be swimming. I'd love to be able to do more swimming than this but you just can't concentrate on it if you're doing weight work and kickboxing which tend to leave you sore for a few days. My fastest mile swim is only 37 minutes and i'd like to improve. It's hard to believe you can train 6 days a week like that every week?
 

Bjorn P.Dal

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"Judge Luisa Del Bianco wants to know why Marco Pantani's hematocrit was measured at 60.1% when he was hospitalised after his accident in Milan-Turin on October 18, 1995. In June, it had been measured at 45, and its substantial rise over the next four months was considered suspicious by the prosecution, who are accusing Pantani of falsifying sports results through EPO (or other blood boosting) drug use..........."

http://au.cyclingnews.com/results/2000/oct00/oct21news.shtml
 

sopas

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Ullefan said:
Do you do alternate days like:
Day 1-Run
Day 2-Bike
Day 3-Swim

or do you do two things on the same day? I ask this because I go to the gym 4-5 times a week, doing kick-boxing 1-2 times a week and I always try to get in weight work on upper and lower body 1-2 times a week. In addition I'll try to get in at least an hour a day of intense CV training, if i'm tired, that will usually be swimming. I'd love to be able to do more swimming than this but you just can't concentrate on it if you're doing weight work and kickboxing which tend to leave you sore for a few days. My fastest mile swim is only 37 minutes and i'd like to improve. It's hard to believe you can train 6 days a week like that every week?
Usually I alternate days however sometimes I also practice 2 sports (either swimm and run, or swimm and bike) the same day in order to simulate competition. THis is what I did last week:

Monday: RUN: 1,500 meter slow warmup + 5,000 meters average + 1,500 meter very slow run.
Tuesday: SWIMM In 25 meter pool: 200 meter (2 x 4) slow warmup + 1,500 meters (2 x 30) + 200 meter very slow swimm.
Wednesday: BIKE: 2 hours average speed.
Thursday: 1,500 meter swimm average speed + 10,000 meter run average speed.
Friday: BIKE: 2 hours average speed.
Saturday: REST all day. Went out with a couple of friends and had a beer.
Sunday: I made a Triathlon with 4 friends. I usually leave the sunday for a race competition. If there is no race or I dont feel like compiting that day, then I do a Triathlon myself alone or with friends, or even a long 70 minute run (usually in Winter).

Really, the hard days were Thursday and Sunday. On Mondays, the day after a triathlon or long run I always take it easy. However I dont do the same every week and sometimes I change things. If for example on Friday I dont feel like going with the bike, I go for a run.
I always try to do 3 days for every sport and since the week has only 7 days then on 2 days I have to do 2 sports the same day.

Follow the basic rule: The day after a hard trainning day take it easy and dont train hard again until 2-3 days later. and leave at least 1 day a week for total REST or minimun trainning in order for your body to assimilate the trainning. the day after the REST day train hard or compete.

Also keep in mind that to train 6 days a week you need to have been trainning all year or at least a few months. I use to get in my best shape in the summer but in February for example, I train only 3-4 days a week and not very hard.
 

artemidorus

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sopas said:
NO, not really. I am 185 cm tall (6' 1") and weight 73 Kilograms (about 160-65 pounds), and I currently run, swimm, and ride, 6 days a week. So, I am in good shape right now and I don't have any sickness. My hart rate currently stands at about 45-50 at rest. I don't have any problems breathing either.
It sounds like heavy training does apply to you!
 

El Loto

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If you're haemocrit can be proven to be over 50% naturally then the UCI allow riders to race. Cunego's is higher than 50% and so is his dad's so he is exempt from the rule.
 

sopas

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artemidorus said:
It sounds like heavy training does apply to you!
It is not that heavy, I have friends who make more kilometers than me. Besides, I am still 29 years old. I consider myself a very fit man but not a "superman".

Some of my best times:

Running:
1 mile: 4:41
1,000 meters: 2:52
5,000 meters: 15:40

Swimming:
100 meters: 1:02
 

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