Jmat wrote, i responded >>
First of all, this was originally about max heart rate, and I admit to digressing off topic somewhat.
>>nature of the beast on internet forums. not a problem
First, the HRM/SRM/PT/technology issue. Times do change, but what is the end result??? Boardman is the current hour record holder using the "conventional bike" standard. If you read the accounts of his successful attempt, he was struggling to maintain the pace and only beat Merckx's record by 10 meters. 10 meters improvement in almost 30 years. Hats off to Chris Boardman, I think he was a fantastic rider, but surely technology is good for more than 10 meters, or is it???
>>there's several ways of looking at this. Merckx is often thought of as the best rider ever. I think Chris would admit he wasn't. Not comparing the same thing. On the other hand he still beat the record and that's all that matters.
>>also, you have to remember that Chris was at the end of his career when he set this record -- his power output was down 8% on the Superman record. Thus, he would've gone further when he was fitter.
>>finally, Merckx rode at altitude for an advantage. Although the partial pressure of oxygen would be decreased compared to sea level and thus, power would be reduced accordingly. the much lower air density offsets this, i.e., had merkcx done the ride at sea level, produced more power, he'd have travelled less distance
It shows what a talent King Eddy really was!!! Merckx said he could hold the pace easily in training for several kilometers, but doing it for an hour was another thing altogether. He set the hour with "old fashioned" speedwork, which is as low-tech as it gets. I don't think he would let a piece of battery-operated equipment tell him what to do, as he was/is a humble and simple man who relied on hard training to be successful, not technology.
>>merkcx used every *available* piece of technology that was available to him at the time. whether these worked or not is a mute point (e.g., drilled chainrings), whereas some did (i.e., setting the record at super high altitude -- that's similar to making the bike very aerodynamic).
Moser was into technology, and Eddy lamented that for the first time in the history of the Hour, aerodynamics had won, not the man, when Moser finally set the new record. Disc wheels will make your bike faster, but a powermeter won't.
>>but a power meter will help you train more objectively, and this will hopefully make fitter
Even so, I mentioned Moser's old record because of his close association with Conconi. Moser trained under his guidance, and much of it was using the "Conconi" method that is supposedly such a failure. Moser put out impressive wattage for 60 minutes using these methods. If the Conconi method truly sucks, imagine what untouchable speeds Moser would have been able to attain with "proper" training!!!
>>you're confusing things. I've no idea what conconi's training methods are, obviously it involves a bit more than some 'HR deflection point'. I said that the conconi method of HR deflection is useless. it's been discredited.
>>supposedly the deflection point allows you to determine where you can TT at (or where you go anaerobic or something similar). It's well understood and universally accepted that HR differs at a specific workload under different conditions. Power is always power, and thus that's how you can accurately determine specific criteria.
Even with all sport science has to offer a rider, who today in the pro peloton is going to step up and beat Boardman's record??? Is anyone even talking about it??? Riding faster than 30 mph for an hour on a track is a very hard thing to do, and technology won't make it any less painful.
>>i've never said that it would. it shows the great ride done by chris. chris used a stack of sport science to help him get the record
Fignon's long-haired hubris is what cost him the 1989 Tour. He knew better, but for some reason he thought there would be no way he could lose in Paris in yellow on the last day, even to a TT specialist like LeMond. If he would have worn a helmet and thown on a set of Scott bars, LeMond would have been unable to take enough time out of him to win. That's a tactical error, and one that Fignon and the world will never forget. Even so, Fignon will still go down in history as one of the world's best riders. Interestingly, LeMond's famous ride in Paris is still the fastest Tour TT (outside of prologues) in history.
>>i'm not sure what point you're trying to make. This is what i said -- use technology or you'll get left behind
I never suggested that a HRM can measure blood lactate, just that they can be useful as a relative measure of intensity. People probably think that I hate powermeters also. Not true. I'm geting a PT Pro soon, so I can't hate them too much. Watts are the definative measure of work a rider does, and of course it is better and absolute compared with speed or heart rate. That being said, watts still cannot negate the effectiveness of other training methods (speed, hr, etc.).
>>not sure what you're trying to say? how can speed and HR by effective measures when they vary under so many different conditions?
Armstrong does use a SRM on his rides, but Carmichael bases training tasks on heart rate not watts. The wattage data are analyzed later, post ride. The same with UK TT ace Stuart Dangerfield. His coach, Dr. Gordon Wright says his training is done on feel, and that powermeter data is only reviewed after the ride as well.
>>and loads of pro's use srm or power tap to prescribe the intensity. however, i've also heard that LA uses power to prescribe intensity.
I'm not down on technology, I just don't like following "absolutes."
>>so, why get a power meter? or would you rather just do what you want and ignore objective measures?
There are lots of variation in people, and lots of variation in the methods they use to achieve fitness. Moser worked with Conconi, Obree trained himself on a mountain bike and a stationary trainer, etc. Sometimes, results are achieved that conflict with what "should be" according to a study or technology.
>>moser, obree, conconi they all used technology in their own way. for the two riders, power meters weren't readily available when they were racing.
>>now, if you look at the big teams, most of the riders use power meters. i've even got stacks of data from world class races!
Curious about the Peter Keen reference. Was he in the same room with you when you posted???
>>Lol! No! Peter uses power meters for coaching his riders. if you look at the UK WCPP team, you'll see that the virtually all the riders have SRMs for both training and racing
Ric
