Max hr question

[ghostpedal]

I tested myself for max hr a couple of seasons ago, and I arrived at the figure of 192. In practice, that figure seems to be good, as during the hardest parts of my hardest rides, my hr would bump against that figure. Then a few weeks ago I was riding a charity ride and there was a killer hill. I was one of the only people not walking their bike up it, and I was on a single speed 29er. I was working really hard, and when I happened to look down, my hr monitor read 206. I don't think it was a bogus reading, as it was too close to normal parameters, and I was really struggling. Is that a new max hr, or should it be looked at as just an anomaly? Has this happened to other people. If 206 is my real max hr, than I haven't been working as hard as I thought.

 

[Piotr]

Did you just come off a layoff? A well rested heart will beat faster than during a period of training. For example, when doing hard 2 min intervals uphill I had in the past maxed out at 198, but after a month-long vacation I went on a team ride and saw my HR move up to 203 during a somewhat lesser effort.

BTW, the only thing that tells you how hard you're working is your power output, not HR. IOW, if you're riding as fast as you can at a max of 206 BPM you're still riding as fast as you can at a max of 198 BPM. You need to base your training zones on your power (or HR if no power meter) at threshold not your maximum HR. Threshold (commonly referred to as FTP here) is best defined as a 1 hr maximal effort on a well rested day. If you can do a 1 hr hillclimb at 175 BMP average then 175 would be a good start.

 

[Yojimbo_]

If your HR hit 206, then your max is at least that high.

Ride the hill again a few times, and try to sprint the last bit. When you are just about ready to puke, check out your monitor reading. That will be your max HR.

 

[doctorSpoc]

why do you care?

 

[ghostpedal]

Thanks all for the replies. Unfortunately, I don't have a power meter (maybe Christmas), so I have to use hr information for training. The ride was after a little bit of time off the bike, so that's a good point. I don't race, and mostly ride for the fun and health of it, but I am still curious about hr numbers. Thanks again.

 

[daveryanwyoming]

...so I have to use hr information for training. ...

If you're going to use HR data to train, at least base your system off of your Threshold HR, not your Max HR. Try some long steady efforts in the 20 to 30 minute range and see what HR you can hold. Use that as a baseline for other efforts like Tempo(~84-94% of Threshold HR), L4(95-105%), Endurance(69-83%), etc. HR isn't very useful for the shorter efforts like VO2 Max work since it doesn't respond fast enough for those short 3-5 minute intervals but it can still be useful overall if it's what you've got to work with. Personally without a PM I'd just use perceived effort for the harder efforts like SST and above and maybe use HR for Tempo and below but I'd definitely use HR relative to Threshold or FTP HR, not max HR.

-Dave

 

[doctorSpoc]

If you're going to use HR data to train, at least base your system off of your Threshold HR, not your Max HR. Try some long steady efforts in the 20 to 30 minute range and see what HR you can hold. Use that as a baseline for other efforts like Tempo(~84-94% of Threshold HR), L4(95-105%), Endurance(69-83%), etc. HR isn't very useful for the shorter efforts like VO2 Max work since it doesn't respond fast enough for those short 3-5 minute intervals but it can still be useful overall if it's what you've got to work with. Personally without a PM I'd just use perceived effort for the harder efforts like SST and above and maybe use HR for Tempo and below but I'd definitely use HR relative to Threshold or FTP HR, not max HR.

-Dave

oh, ok he's using his HRmax to create his HR zones... if so i would agree too that this is a mistake since your HRmax is a fixed number and the HR zones relative to HRmax can change (HR @ threshold). figuring out what your threshold HR is and then basing everything off of that IS the better option... HRmax is irrelevant.

also agree that ~1 hr+ long tempo is about the highest intensity that you can reasonably use HR for.

e.g. in an 20min iso power threshold workout my HR can vary by 30+ bpm.. if i was to do an iso HR workout my power would be droping as the workout went on... adapation is relative to power not HR so using the iso HR method, a good portion of the interval will likely be out the the addapation zone or total ave power will likely be much lower that it could be. the other thing is that for the 2nd interval your HR will likely start higher and raise faster than the 1st one... the amount of the rise and the rate of change in the rise is also highly effected by temperature.

for above Th your HR is in flux for the entirety of the inteval so using HR is completely useless (so as dave said using RPE or even using distance and timing the interval is WAY better than using HR)... but even for Th a good portion is of the time and the most critcal time (at the start of the interval) your HR is in flux so you really have no idea how fast to ride... using HR you're very likely to go out much too fast... to get your HR up and you will likely blow up or end up going way slower than you could by the end.

i wonder if speed/time while trying to account for wind might not be a better option. when my poweTap batteries die on the road that's pretty much what i do... i only have two locations where i do my intervals. so for 10min and 20min intervals i know what my ave speed, splits to certain locations, time for whole interval (id do distance not time) etc is and aprox differential for different wind conditions... you could do that too. just go and do 10min intervals and figure out what you time is for different conditions and base your training off of that. i don't even base my train on FTP. i know about what it is, but i base all my training off of 10min power and 20min power and for shorter intervals what i can actually do for those intervals... although not quite as accurate you could probaly do alright just by timing your shorter intervals. inside it's even easier... no wind to adjust for so definitely use speed. many manufactures of indoor trainers have power chart that you can work with... there is some drift in power as the trainer warms up so you need to be mindful of that too.

HR for longer intervals is not entirely bad but HRmax is a stat that you don't really need to care about.