Maximizing life expectancy/enjoyment



"DRS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote in message
> [email protected]
> > DRS wrote:
> >
> >> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> [email protected]
> >>> Seth Breidbart wrote:
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >>>> Or does a "cardiologist" have a really strange meaning for "lives"?
> >>>
> >>> You are welcome to visit me for a confirmation on whether or not you
> >>> are alive or dead.
> >>
> >> Anyone who thinks Christ is alive is clearly unqualified to make that
> >> determination.
> >
> > What about those who *know*?
>
> You are not in a position to know. And you really, really need to learn
the
> difference between knowledge and belief.

Yes indeed you do!
 
On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 01:23:36 +1000, DRS <[email protected]> wrote:
> Seth Breidbart <[email protected]> wrote in message
> [email protected]
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Christ lives.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>>> Board-Certified Cardiologist
>>> http://www.heartmdphd.com/
>>
>> Really? What's his pulse rate?
>>
>> Or does a "cardiologist" have a really strange meaning for "lives"?
>
> Makes you worry, eh?
>
> "Doctor! Doctor! His heart's not beating! He's dead!"
>
> "No, he's alive."

pining for the fjords
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Ignoramus20526 <[email protected]> top-posted:

[Pavel Tsatsouline's books, especially _Power to the People_]

>Thanks. I was somewhat taken aback by the relation of the price of his
>book to the quantity of information in it though. I added those books
>to my wish list and maybe will buy them later.

There is a lot of information in them, in terms of what to do and how
to do (and not do) it. There just isn't much padding or excess
verbiage.

Seth
--
Who cares? Shut up and lift. -- Watson (the pencil neck) Davis
 
DRS wrote:

> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote in message
> [email protected]
> > DRS wrote:
> >> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> [email protected]
>
> [...]
>
> >>> See:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp
> >>
> >> I have. It's a load of ****.
> >
> > You're welcome to try to refute it. Many try... none successfully.
>
> LOL! You're a riot! Biblical scholars don't believe your kind of
> simple-minded loony understanding of the Bible, why should anyone else with
> a brain? Your rubbish has been refuted so often it's a joke.
>

Should be easy for you then. Be my guest.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
 
DRS wrote:

> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote in message
> [email protected]
> > DRS wrote:
> >
> >> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> [email protected]
> >>> Seth Breidbart wrote:
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>
> >>>> Or does a "cardiologist" have a really strange meaning for "lives"?
> >>>
> >>> You are welcome to visit me for a confirmation on whether or not you
> >>> are alive or dead.
> >>
> >> Anyone who thinks Christ is alive is clearly unqualified to make that
> >> determination.
> >
> > What about those who *know*?
>
> You are not in a position to know.

Is it your claim that you know what I know?

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
 
In article <[email protected]>,
John HUDSON <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:42:46 GMT, DZ <[email protected]> wrote:

>>Our brains are most well designed for hiding from lions and fooling
>>other monkeys into thinking they're not simply giving up their
>>food. As byproduct of adaptation to life in the woods we developed
>>limited ability to think abstractly and speculate about the laws of
>>physics. Why would there be anything more profound than that?
>Because it is in human nature to impress and to make ourselves appear
>more clever than we really are. The denizens of MFW do it all the
>time! ;o)

That's part of (one way of) convincing other monkeys that they're not
simply giving up their food.

Seth
--
I can't tell you how irritating it is to hear a yankee say "y'all" to a single
person. I've had to kill several of them because of that. -- Watson Davis
 
roger<[email protected]> writes:

>On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:38:32 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
><[email protected]> wrote:

>>Mice live *twice* as long in captivity if they are given only half as much
>>as they would eat ad libitum.
>>
>>Not only do they live longer but they a physically more active in their
>>older age. Imagine humans doubling their lifespan to 150 years and
>>playing tennis when they are 120 years old.

>You certainly have an active imagination. There is no objective
>evidence that caloric restriction in humans would have the same effect
>as in mice.

Caloric restriction works for every kind of animal it has been tried
on. There is plenty of evidence that the basics of nutrition,
metabolism, etc., involved, are common. In the absence of tests on
humans showing that they are an exception, that all counts as
objective evidence in favour of it working in humans.

Of course it's not conclusive, but then even if we showed it worked
for most people, that still wouldn't be conclusive evidence it would
work for you, would it?
--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
>Seth Breidbart wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Christ lives.
>> >Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>> >Board-Certified Cardiologist
>> >http://www.heartmdphd.com/
>> Really?
>Yes.
>> What's his pulse rate?
>The next time I check His pulse, I'll let you know at that moment.
>> Or does a "cardiologist" have a really strange meaning for "lives"?
>You are welcome to visit me for a confirmation on whether or not you are
>alive or dead.

So how did you make your determination that "Christ lives"? What was
his pulse when you measured it?

Seth
--
Of course, common logic fails to hold up here on mfw, as a general rule
of thumb. -- Lyle McDonald
 
Seth Breidbart wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Seth Breidbart wrote:
> >> In article <[email protected]>,
> >> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Christ lives.
> >> >Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> >> >Board-Certified Cardiologist
> >> >http://www.heartmdphd.com/
> >> Really?
> >Yes.
> >> What's his pulse rate?
> >The next time I check His pulse, I'll let you know at that moment.
> >> Or does a "cardiologist" have a really strange meaning for "lives"?
> >You are welcome to visit me for a confirmation on whether or not you are
> >alive or dead.
>
> So how did you make your determination that "Christ lives"? What was
> his pulse when you measured it?
>
> Seth

You are welcome to visit me to confirm that you are alive. When you do,
you'll also have the answers to your questions.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
 
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
> Seth Breidbart wrote:
> > So how did you make your determination that "Christ lives"? What was
> > his pulse when you measured it?
>
> You are welcome to visit me to confirm that you are alive. When you do,
> you'll also have the answers to your questions.

Somehow, this sounds rather threatening...

DZ

> --
> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Board-Certified Cardiologist
> http://www.heartmdphd.com/
>
>


--
Wheel discovery department
 
DZ <[email protected]> wrote:

>Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Seth Breidbart wrote:
>> > So how did you make your determination that "Christ lives"? What was
>> > his pulse when you measured it?
>>
>> You are welcome to visit me to confirm that you are alive. When you do,
>> you'll also have the answers to your questions.
>
>Somehow, this sounds rather threatening...

Actually, it sounds like Jesus hangs out at his office.
 
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Proton Soup wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:48:31 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >DRS wrote:
> > >
> > >> Proton Soup <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >> [email protected]
> > >>
> > >> [...]
> > >>
> > >> > Masturbate daily to lube the prostate and prevent cancer.
> > >>
> > >> Did you know that in medical circles prostate cancer is known as the
> > >> priest's disease? It's true.
> > >
> > >Risk of prostate cancer is higher in folks with higher testosterone
> > >levels. Testosterone levels tend to be higher in folks that masturbate
> > >(or are otherwise sexually active) than folks who aren't. Sorry.
> >
> If cigarette smoke carcinogens are concentrated in prostatic fluids (as an
> explanation for the cancer), the solution is to stop smoking instead of
> masterbating.
>


I came up with what I thought was the perfect way to quit smoking. Every
time I wanted a cigarette, I would masturbate instead.

It didn't work, because I always wanted a cigarette afterwards ...
<g>
--
Peter
website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo
 
> Physicians do that. Then they treat prostate cancer with
anti-testosterone
> drugs.
>
> Fwiw, castrated men as a general rule do not get prostate cancer.
>
> --
> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

Note: I am NOT commenting on the masturbation the
topic; rather, I commenting on the alleged/oversimplified
relationship of testosterone to prostate cancer.

I'd be careful with this topic. While it is true
anti-testosterone drugs or castration are used tp
slow prostate cancer, the risk of prostate cancer
(PC) in uncastrated male is increased in those males
with a low testosterone to estrogen ratio. That is to
say some prostate cancers are a result of physicians
to refusing to treat this ratio thru ignorance or bias.

Prehen, R.T. "On the prevention and therapy of prostate
cancer by androgen administration."
Cancer Res. 1999; 59 (17): 4164-4164.

Testosterone helps maintain cellular differentiation
of prostate cells. Recall with time PC adapt
to the low androgen levels and their growth rate
will start to increase.

PC is also increased in dark skinned males with compromised
vitamin D status (if one can make a small leap in
logic). And of course if one looks at the animal
research, it blazingly clear that a moderately high
selenium status helps prevent PC.
And don't forget lycopene.........

The fact that castrated males don't get prostate
cancer proves little other than that
their prostates are either under-developed
or have undergone atrophy.

The book you need to read is "Anabolic therapy in
Modern Medicine" by William N. Taylor, M.D.
This isn't a popular press book rather it
written at the physician level. He has been
a researcher and author on this topic for
at least 20 years. This is an excellent book.

Beating the drum................
Playing the flute.................
And wishing that "Saint" Augustine's father
was castrated at birth..............................
...............William A. Noyes
 

>
> And what drugs might those be? I suspect you don't know what
> you're talking about.

Flutamide comes to mind as an antiandrogen. What else? Estrogens.
.............LHRH agonists, Ketocanzole...................

>
> > Fwiw, castrated men as a general rule do not get prostate cancer.
>
> Neither do men with genetic 5alpha-reductase deficiency.

And Proscar is listed as an antiandrogen in my book:)
It competitively inhibits 5-alpha reductase.

I fear you are making the same mistake that Doc Chung seems
to be making............a direct simple link of prostate cancer to
androgens.

Some theories, some truths, some facts..........
...........................................William A. Noyes
 
"William A. Noyes" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > And what drugs might those be? I suspect you don't know what
> > you're talking about.
>
> Flutamide comes to mind as an antiandrogen. What else? Estrogens.
> ............LHRH agonists, Ketocanzole...................
>
> >
> > > Fwiw, castrated men as a general rule do not get prostate cancer.
> >
> > Neither do men with genetic 5alpha-reductase deficiency.
>
> And Proscar is listed as an antiandrogen in my book:)
> It competitively inhibits 5-alpha reductase.

Chung said, "they treat prostate cancer with anti-testosterone
drugs."

Anti-androgen does not equal anti-testosterone, does it?
Reducing 5-alpha reductase activity reduces conversion to
DHT, thus increasing circulating T, right? That was my
point. You might also want to review recent studies that
indicate that finasteride, while good for BPH, may not be
good for prostate cancer.

> I fear you are making the same mistake that Doc Chung seems
> to be making............a direct simple link of prostate cancer to
> androgens.
>
> Some theories, some truths, some facts..........

The link between DHT in prostate tissues and BPH is
pretty strong. They are currently discovering that the
positive effect of DHT reduction on BPH doesn't
necessarily carry over to prostate cancer, and it may
even by counterproductive.

My point is that Chung's concept of reducing
testosterone to treat prostate cancer is a very
"old school" approach and may be contrary to
what the patient needs. It's not quite on the
level of stone-tool trepanation, but for him to
make such a statement backed by the "I'm a
physician" bit is good reason to tell him to stick
to cardiology and not dip into urology and
endocrinology.
 
DZ wrote:

> DRS <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> DZ <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> [email protected]
>>
>>>Ignoramus19432 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>OftEntiMes sUCh people have eXtremELY vAgue idea ABOut just what god
>>>>is likE, to tHe point that THeir "bEliefs" CannOt lEAd to anY
>>>>praCTiCal cOnCluSionS anD cannot influence any deCisions.
>>>
>>>Sometimes the fundamental question comes to "Why shouldn't I go ahead
>>>and maul the neighbour".
>>>
>>>God is the answer.
>>
>> Something for which there is no evidence is no answer to anything. You
>> don't need to invent nonexistent anthropomorphic deities
>
> Anthropomorphism is a "language" and only on the surface of religion.

Anthropomorphism is a "language..." What could that mean?
Anthropomorphism is attributing human characteristics to non-humans.
It is utterly central to religions. If god couldn't hear and see
people, there would be no point in the existence. If god didn't
exhibit human characteristics like mercy and compassion, there's no
point to the belief.

>>to build comprehensive ethical systems.
>
> What makes you obey rules of such a system?

Intelligent self-interest. If we all adhere to an ethical system that
promises no undue harm, it's in our best interests to support it.
Given that there are bad people in the world, the system has to
include what to do with the ones who refuse to deal gently with the
rest. And it should be done ethically as well.

Pastorio
 
DZ wrote:

> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Seth Breidbart wrote:
> > > So how did you make your determination that "Christ lives"? What was
> > > his pulse when you measured it?
> >
> > You are welcome to visit me to confirm that you are alive. When you do,
> > you'll also have the answers to your questions.
>
> Somehow, this sounds rather threatening...

Why are you fearful?

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
 
"John M. Williams" wrote:

> DZ <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Seth Breidbart wrote:
> >> > So how did you make your determination that "Christ lives"? What was
> >> > his pulse when you measured it?
> >>
> >> You are welcome to visit me to confirm that you are alive. When you do,
> >> you'll also have the answers to your questions.
> >
> >Somehow, this sounds rather threatening...
>
> Actually, it sounds like Jesus hangs out at his office.

He does :)

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
 
On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:06:08 -0400, Bob Pastorio <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> Anthropomorphism is a "language" and only on the surface of religion.
>
>Anthropomorphism is a "language..." What could that mean?
>Anthropomorphism is attributing human characteristics to non-humans.
>It is utterly central to religions. If god couldn't hear and see
>people, there would be no point in the existence. If god didn't
>exhibit human characteristics like mercy and compassion, there's no
>point to the belief.

But what is the term for the reverse phenomenon? Deomorphism?

Genesis starts off with God creating man in his image, not the other
way 'round.

>>>to build comprehensive ethical systems.
>>
>> What makes you obey rules of such a system?
>
>Intelligent self-interest. If we all adhere to an ethical system that
>promises no undue harm, it's in our best interests to support it.
>Given that there are bad people in the world, the system has to
>include what to do with the ones who refuse to deal gently with the
>rest. And it should be done ethically as well.

There are no objective ethics, but if I had to choose a system to live
under, I'd go with Ayn Rand's.

Proton Soup
 
"John M. Williams" wrote:

> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"John M. Williams" wrote:
> >
> >> DZ <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> Seth Breidbart wrote:
> >> >> > So how did you make your determination that "Christ lives"? What was
> >> >> > his pulse when you measured it?
> >> >>
> >> >> You are welcome to visit me to confirm that you are alive. When you do,
> >> >> you'll also have the answers to your questions.
> >> >
> >> >Somehow, this sounds rather threatening...
> >>
> >> Actually, it sounds like Jesus hangs out at his office.
> >
> >He does :)
>
> Is he your dietician? Does he pass out two-pound servings of loaves
> and fishes?

He remains my Lord and Savior :)

Thank you for your interest.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
 
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