Maximizing life expectancy/enjoyment



Go look at the recommendations at www.mayoclinic.com you will find almost
anything you want there. Exercise, streching, diet and on and on..you don't
need a book..use your computer and find a regiment that you like and can
stick with.. mayo is world renown.

luck,

nathan
"Ignoramus20526" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> After returning from obesity to normal weight (223/177/180) due to a
> eat no ****/eat less/exercise more approach, I am now thinking about
> health in general. What I would like to know is, what are the things
> that a person can do to maximize their life expectancy/enjoyment of
> life via various natural means (no meds). I want to be clear that I
> want the maximum life expectancy multiplied by enjoyment of life. So
> any regimen that makes me live longer but makes me miserable is not
> something that I would like to consider.
>
> I will appreciate references to some non-kooky books that do not
> advocate spending money on programs affiliated with their authors.
>
> I am not interested in having an "extreme body", squatting 500 lbs,
> etc etc. However I am interested in being fit, agile, strong, and
> flexible.
>
> My current thinking is that the cornerstone of such an approach is
> doing lots of low intensity aerobic exercise such as walking, plus
> calisthenics based strength training. Another cornerstone is staying
> within the normal weight interval. The third cornerstone is eating
> only natural and healthy food, according to some definition. To me it
> means eating no heavily processed foods and no sugar. The fourth is to
> have a stable life and to not work too much.
>
> I am aware that there is some scant evidence that living on calorie
> restricted diet (1500 or so calories per day all the time) also can
> help one live longer. But smoehow I have a feeling that such a life is
> either impossible or not satisfying to me. Right now I eat about
> 1900-2000 calories per day, walk 100 minutes per day, and my weight is
> relatively stable for the last 3 weeks. I can live on that but not on
> much less, I think.
>
> Does anyone have any comments or book suggestions?
>
> i
 
In sci.med.nutrition Wayne S. Hill <[email protected]> wrote or quoted:
> Tim Tyler wrote:
>> Wayne S. Hill wrote:

>>>> There's better evidence for that than for practically any
>>>> other intervention. Maybe more evidence for it than all
>>>> other interventions combined!
>>>
>>> I think this conclusion will be reversed when researchers
>>> realize that sarcopenia and osteopenia are much greater
>>> threats to longevity in people over, say, 60 years of age
>>> than bodymass per se. IOW, extrapolating animal models to
>>> humans is not reasonable here.
>>
>> ``Calorie Restriction Reduces Age-Related Muscle Loss''
>>
>> - http://www.news.wisc.edu/view.html?get=4748
>
> In rats. IN RATS! RATS! RATS!RATS!RATS!RATS!RATS!RATS!
>
> For cryin' out loud, studies have shown that elderly people
> increase their lean body mass only with a combination of
> increased protein intake and increased exercise (not one of
> these alone).

I was talking about *preventing* age-related decline - e.g.:

``I have confirmed a loss of muscle function with aging that was
completely prevented in the old caloric restricted animals.''

- http://www.hhp.ufl.edu/ess/ces/muscle_phys/payne.html

*Reversing* age-related decline is a different ball game:
It's a lot harder to replace dead muscle cells than it
is to stop them dying in the first place.

> I sincerely doubt there's any evidence that shows that feeding people
> less will reduce their loss of lean muscle mass.

> If it's true in rodents, doesn't that tell you
> something about using rats as a model of elderly people?

Not really.

Most of the models of sarcopenia invoke the effect of oxidative stress,
on mitochondria as the probable mechanism. If that is the case, then
there are good reasons for expecting CR to be protective in many
animals - since it is broadly reported to decrease mitochondrial
oxygen radical generation and oxidative damage to mitochondrial DNA.

CR *does* extend lifespan in other animals besides rodents. Here's a
study in dogs, for example:

http://preventdisease.com/news/articles/low-cal_diet_dogs.shtml

It would be a bit of an anomaly if it failed in humans.

>> Osteopenia might be a bit of a problem. However I strongly
>> suspect that a technological solution to this one is
>> imminent, or is already in use - and thus that young people
>> approaching CR should not be overly concerned about it.
>>
>> Low calorie intake is a minor risk factor anyway. Take your
>> vitamin D, avoid your retinol, get a good dose of minerals,
>> do weight bearing exercise, and you should not have too much
>> to worry about.
>
> Hey, you're talking about trying to live to unheard of ages
> here. Once someone gets beyond the age of about 70, the
> number 1 concern is maintaining mobility. If you consider
> that the main factors in maintaining mobility are maintaining
> muscle and bone mass, why (oh, why!) would you consider it
> logical to tell people to eat much less, and to claim that the
> great body of research supports this contention?

Because it does. For one thing, CR makes animals a lot more mobile.
One of the most graphic illustrations of the effect I am aware of is
the video at the top of: http://www.biomarkerinc.com/html/press.htm
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email protected] Remove lock to reply.
 
In sci.med.nutrition Philippic <[email protected]> wrote or quoted:
> "Tim Tyler" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]

>> It almost certainly won't make us live to 150. However there's good
>> evidence that it will extend our lives - since it has done so in
>> practically every other animal tested.
>
> Isn't there an issue concerning *when* and *how* the individual starts their
> CR regimen? [...]

The earlier the better - AFAICS - but it looks as though it will produce
life extension at almost any age - with the possible exception of the
*very* old.

There are some issues here, though. Anyone contemplating the diet should
look into the matter. In particular "sudden onset" is suspected to be
an incorrect approach.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ [email protected] Remove lock to reply.
 
On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:50:57 -0400, "John M. Williams"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"OmegaZero2003" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:.
>> > DRS wrote:
>> > > Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > > > DRS wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > > >>> rosie read and post wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> [...]
>> > > >>
>> > > >>>> i like your christ, I do not like your christians, your
>christians
>> > > >>>> are so unlike your christ.
>> > > >>>> .............................................gandhi
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> Ghandhi's dead.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> Christ lives.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Prove it.
>> > > >
>> > > > Why should I?
>> > >
>> > > Because you claimed it to be so. Put up or shut up.
>> >
>> > It is not my claim but the Word of God. If He choses to prove it to
>you,
>> > He will.
>>
>> He is not a He ; it is consciousness without an object or subject.
>
>Well, according to the reference which Chung cites, God IS The
>Word. And The Word has been around since the beginning.
>
>But that invites the question, "What is The Word?"
>


Buh buh buh bird is the word.
 
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 15:51:50 -0400, Blue Mu_n <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 01:25:20 +1000, "DRS" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>> Ghandhi's dead.
>>>
>>> Christ lives.
>>
>>Prove it.
>
>Dig up their respective graves. One has bones, the latter nothing.
>
>Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

Dig up Louis XIV's grave while you're at it. Bet his bones have
rotted. Does that make him an immortal space fairy too?
 
"Chupacabra" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Buh buh buh bird is the word.

yyyyyyyyyyep.

(pah pah pah oom mau mau)


--
Bird
============================
Contact me at lindabird --- a t --- musician dot o r g
 
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:59:51 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>roger wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:38:32 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >Mice live *twice* as long in captivity if they are given only half as much
>> >as they would eat ad libitum.
>> >
>> >Not only do they live longer but they a physically more active in their
>> >older age. Imagine humans doubling their lifespan to 150 years and
>> >playing tennis when they are 120 years old.
>>
>> You certainly have an active imagination. There is no objective
>> evidence that caloric restriction in humans would have the same effect
>> as in mice.
>>
>
>There is no objective evidence that it won't.
>
>>
>> Roger
>>
>> I am not an animal. I am a man.
>>
>> Elephant Man
>
>He like we *are* animals. To be more precise, we like mice are mammals.

You're ignoring the fact that there's a bunch of **** that works great
in mice (like every bodybuilding supplement ever) that's totally
ineffective in humans.
 
Ignoramus20526 writes:

> Does anyone have any comments or book suggestions?

Moderation in all things.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
 
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote
> Ignoramus20526 writes:
>
> > Does anyone have any comments or book suggestions?
>
> Moderation in all things.

Really? Moderately happy? Moderately healthy? Moderately wealthy?
Moderately intelligent? Moderately attractive?

You might want to refrain from generalizations.

Generalizations are always wrong :)

David
 
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:13:38 -0400, Chupacabra
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>>> Ghandhi's dead.
>>>>
>>>> Christ lives.
>>>
>>>Prove it.
>>
>>Dig up their respective graves. One has bones, the latter nothing.
>>
>>Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
>
>Dig up Louis XIV's grave while you're at it. Bet his bones have
>rotted. Does that make him an immortal space fairy too?

In your attempt to be humorous or witty or whatever, you missed the
point. I hope you find your way soon.

Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
 
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:15:50 -0400, Chupacabra
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>He like we *are* animals. To be more precise, we like mice are mammals.
>
>You're ignoring the fact that there's a bunch of **** that works great
>in mice (like every bodybuilding supplement ever) that's totally
>ineffective in humans.

Welcome, Andrew, to the nitwits of misc.fitness.weights.

Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
 
David Cohen writes:

> Really? Moderately happy? Moderately healthy? Moderately wealthy?
> Moderately intelligent? Moderately attractive?

Yes.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
 
"John HUDSON" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:12:39 GMT, "OmegaZero2003"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> DRS wrote:
> >>
> >> > Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> > [email protected]
> >> > > DRS wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> > >> message [email protected]
> >> > >>> rosie read and post wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> [...]
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>> i like your christ, I do not like your christians, your
christians
> >> > >>>> are so unlike your christ.
> >> > >>>> .............................................gandhi
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Ghandhi's dead.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Christ lives.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Prove it.
> >> > >
> >> > > Why should I?
> >> >
> >> > Because you claimed it to be so. Put up or shut up.
> >>
> >> It is not my claim but the Word of God. If He choses to prove it to
you,
> >> He will.
> >
> >He is not a He ; it is consciousness without an object or subject.
>
> Greater minds than ours have grappled with this vexing concept since
> man's earliest comprehension of his own mortality.
>
> The simple answer is that it is all way beyond our futile aspirations
> to make some meaning to what is meaningless. As I always told my
> children, there are no answers so don't ask the questions.

No it is not; even Christ (as have all the great/enlightened ones across
culture and the ages) said "I am in you" and "Ye also are Gods".

It is a state of consciousness that has been reached by these people; one
that has been called: God Consciousness, Christ Consciosness, enlightenment,
Nirvana/Paranirvana, Consciousness Without and Object/Subject etc. etc.

It is emminently reachable although most always ineffable to normal waking
consciousness.


>
> Make the most of what there is and what we think we know. Beyond that
> anything is possible, but sadly not very likely!

That may be true as ther are many who are more concerned with getting
something to eat, avoiding a bullet or other wordly activirties - all of
which interfere with the descipline necessary to even attempt to reach such
a SOC.


>
> As John Williams can confirm, I have dwelt on this problem probably
> more than most; it doesn't help one little bit.

Then think not; meditate (no thought).
 
"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:j9%[email protected]...
>
> "John HUDSON" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:12:39 GMT, "OmegaZero2003"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >news:[email protected]...
> > >> DRS wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote in
message
> > >> > [email protected]
> > >> > > DRS wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > >> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote
in
> > >> > >> message [email protected]
> > >> > >>> rosie read and post wrote:
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> [...]
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>>> i like your christ, I do not like your christians, your
> christians
> > >> > >>>> are so unlike your christ.
> > >> > >>>> .............................................gandhi
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> Ghandhi's dead.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> Christ lives.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> Prove it.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Why should I?
> > >> >
> > >> > Because you claimed it to be so. Put up or shut up.
> > >>
> > >> It is not my claim but the Word of God. If He choses to prove it to
> you,
> > >> He will.
> > >
> > >He is not a He ; it is consciousness without an object or subject.
> >
> > Greater minds than ours have grappled with this vexing concept since
> > man's earliest comprehension of his own mortality.
> >
> > The simple answer is that it is all way beyond our futile aspirations
> > to make some meaning to what is meaningless.
>
>
>
>
> I think you mean it is pointless to try to conceive of the inconceivable
> ("meaningless" would be the wrong word, right?)

Yet identity with such a state of consciousness is possible - as evidenced
by a host (hundreds of well-known, thousands of lesser-known) individuals
"reaching" such a SOC.

And each has their own take on the manifest mental (conceptual)
repercussions; but all agree the "experience is ineffable to NWC (yet some
conceptual overtones - conotations from that state - sneak or leak into
conceptual space), and that it transfers a supernal value to NWC (witness
the lives of those so enlightened.

It is doable.






>know. Beyond that
> > anything is possible, but sadly not very likely!
> >
> > As John Williams can confirm, I have dwelt on this problem probably
> > more than most; it doesn't help one little bit.
> >
> > >
> >
>
>
 
"John HUDSON" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:17:03 GMT, "David" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"John HUDSON" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:12:39 GMT, "OmegaZero2003"
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >news:[email protected]...
> >> >> DRS wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote in
message
> >> >> > [email protected]
> >> >> > > DRS wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >> Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <[email protected]> wrote
in
> >> >> > >> message [email protected]
> >> >> > >>> rosie read and post wrote:
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> [...]
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>>> i like your christ, I do not like your christians, your
> >christians
> >> >> > >>>> are so unlike your christ.
> >> >> > >>>> .............................................gandhi
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>> Ghandhi's dead.
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>> Christ lives.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> Prove it.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Why should I?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Because you claimed it to be so. Put up or shut up.
> >> >>
> >> >> It is not my claim but the Word of God. If He choses to prove it to
> >you,
> >> >> He will.
> >> >
> >> >He is not a He ; it is consciousness without an object or subject.
> >>
> >> Greater minds than ours have grappled with this vexing concept since
> >> man's earliest comprehension of his own mortality.
> >>
> >> The simple answer is that it is all way beyond our futile aspirations
> >> to make some meaning to what is meaningless.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I think you mean it is pointless to try to conceive of the inconceivable
> >("meaningless" would be the wrong word, right?)
>
> It is probably semantics David, as either way would indicate that we
> are all in deep ****! ;o)

It is all either a finite or infinite game (James P Carse). One POV.
 
"roger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:47:51 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >> >>> Christ lives.
> >> >>
> >> >> Prove it.
> >> >
> >> > Why should I?
> >>
> >> Because you claimed it to be so. Put up or shut up.
> >
> >It is not my claim but the Word of God.
>
> Please provide proof that it is the Word of God and not the word or
> someone who claims that it is the Word of God.

I would like to have a Word with you.

>
> Roger
 
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

> "Wayne S. Hill" wrote:
>> Tim Tyler wrote:
>>
>> > In sci.med.nutrition Ignoramus wrote or quoted:
>> >
>> >> I am aware that there is some scant evidence that living
>> >> on calorie restricted diet (1500 or so calories per day
>> >> all the time) also can help one live longer.
>> >
>> > There's better evidence for that than for practically any
>> > other intervention. Maybe more evidence for it than all
>> > other interventions combined!
>>
>> I think this conclusion will be reversed when researchers
>> realize that sarcopenia and osteopenia are much greater
>
> When there is disuse atrophy. This does not occur with
> modest reduction of food intake.

Are you really a physician? Elderly people atrophy WITHOUT
REDUCTION IN FOOD INTAKE. It's called sarcopenia.

--
-Wayne
 
Once upon a time, our fellow Wayne S. Hill
rambled on about "Re: Maximizing life expectancy/enjoyment."
Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

>> When there is disuse atrophy. This does not occur with
>> modest reduction of food intake.

>Are you really a physician?

No!

Just thought that you might want to know. :)
 
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:49:26 -0400, Full Mu_n <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:15:50 -0400, Chupacabra
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>He like we *are* animals. To be more precise, we like mice are mammals.
>>
>>You're ignoring the fact that there's a bunch of **** that works great
>>in mice (like every bodybuilding supplement ever) that's totally
>>ineffective in humans.
>
>Welcome, Andrew, to the nitwits of misc.fitness.weights.
>
>Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

Do you have anything interesting to say? Nope?

Okay, then I'm gonna call you a ***, you ***.
 
On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 02:37:32 +0200, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Ignoramus20526 writes:
>
>> Does anyone have any comments or book suggestions?
>
>Moderation in all things.

Moderation in moderation.

Proton Soup
 
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