Maybe it's just me ...

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Wafflycathcsdir, Apr 29, 2003.

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  1. ... being a whinging old bag, but I came across the following

    http://tinyurl.com/ajyn

    "Get out of your car and on to the saddle

    April 21, 2003 09:48

    CYCLISTS can now leave their two wheels in safety thanks to a scheme to get people out of their cars
    and on to the saddle.

    Two new cycle racks were put up in the Great Yarmouth town centre last week with more on the way to
    promote a healthier way of travel.

    The blue metal shelters, part of a £15,000 Norfolk Cycle Theft Reduction Strategy, have been placed
    on the corner of Regent Street, near the Town Hall, and just off the Market Place for shoppers and
    workers to use.

    The cycle racks have been funded by Norfolk County Council from money generated by seafront car
    parking charges in the town.

    David Glason, senior planning assistant for the borough council, who has been consulting the county
    council on their cycle strategy, said there was funds available for more cycle shelters in the town.

    "There have been discussions as to how these can best serve the public but there are lots of issues
    involved and no plans have been decided," he said.

    The Victorian design of the cycle shelters and marine blue colour fit in with the historic
    surroundings of Regent Street and the Market Place.

    "The main aim is to get more people cycling rather than using their cars and promote a sustainable
    mode of transport," said Mr Glason.

    The theft reduction partnership, which involves members of the county council, borough council
    and police, plans to site more unsheltered cycle racks in Yarmouth and Gorleston as well as the
    new racks.

    Cycle racks would be placed in areas where CCTV cameras are operating to ensure the safety of
    the bicycles.

    Norfolk County Council would like to hear resident's views on the cycle racks and where to put new
    ones in the future. Call Tim Jarvis on 01603 222222.

    WHAT DO YOU THINK? The Mercury would also like to know resident's views on the cycle racks. Write to
    Feedback on 25 Regent Street, Great Yarmouth or email [email protected]"

    As I said, perhaps it's just me being a whinging old bag, but why should a council be glorifying in
    publicity for putting up *two* new cycle racks??? Admittedly, I haven't seen the cycle racks, so
    they may be all-singing,all-dancing cycle racks that shoot cycle thieves on sight, but praising a
    council for *two* cycle racks as if that's something, well, *WOW!!!* ... Perhaps the council is
    getting the publicity to say, see, we care about cyclists BUT ...

    Me, I'm an old cynic ;-)

    Cheers, helen s

    ~~~~~~~~~~
    Flush out that intestinal parasite and/or the waste product before sending a reply!

    Any speeliong mistake$ aR the resiult of my cats sitting on the keyboaRRRDdd
    ~~~~~~~~~~
     
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  2. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    In news:[email protected], wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter
    <[email protected]> typed:
    >
    > As I said, perhaps it's just me being a whinging old bag, but why should a council be glorifying
    > in publicity for putting up *two* new cycle racks??? Admittedly, I haven't seen the cycle racks,
    > so they may be all-singing,all-dancing cycle racks that shoot cycle thieves on sight, but praising
    > a council for *two* cycle racks as if that's something, well, *WOW!!!* ... Perhaps the council is
    > getting the publicity to say, see, we care about cyclists BUT ...
    >

    OTOH how else do you let people know the racks are there. Cambridge set aside part of one of their
    carparks for cycles where the paybooth attendants could keep an eye on them - all very laudable but
    they didn't tell anyone so nobody knew it was there. I can see this triggering one or two people to
    think lets try the bikes. OTOH maybe I'm just gullible.

    Tony
     
  3. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter wrote:

    > As I said, perhaps it's just me being a whinging old bag, but why should a council be glorifying
    > in publicity for putting up *two* new cycle racks??? Admittedly, I haven't seen the cycle racks,
    > so they may be all-singing,all-dancing cycle racks that shoot cycle thieves on sight, but praising
    > a council for *two* cycle racks as if that's something, well, *WOW!!!* ... Perhaps the council is
    > getting the publicity to say, see, we care about cyclists BUT ...

    2 is better than 0, and also the case that since existing cycle racks tend to be under-used in any
    case (at least judging by thos in Dundee, where I don't think I've ever seen one of the city centre
    ones full) it would probably be considered somewhat rash to create safe parking for 5000 cycles
    before there's a real knowledge of how much is needed[1]... If they're well used there'll be a case
    for more, if nobody bothers there'll be a reasonable case to not bother again.

    Pete.

    [1] surveys are rather poor for this. Lots of people *say* they want to cycle in, get out of the car
    etc. but when push comes to shove they find a remarkable number of excuses not to break their
    existing habits.
    --
    Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
    http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  4. J-P.S

    J-P.S Guest

    On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:03:42 +0100, Peter Clinch scrawled: ) 2 is better than 0, and also the case
    that since existing cycle racks ) tend to be under-used in any case (at least judging by thos in
    Dundee, ) where I don't think I've ever seen one of the city centre ones full)

    This varies from city to city, town to town. In Oxford the racks are only ever empty when the police
    have removed all bicycles as "security risks" on Armistice Sunday. And that only happens on a few
    select streets.

    J-P
    --
    Give 'em to your grannie and watch the beggar go
     
  5. wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter wrote:
    > ... being a whinging old bag, but I came across the following

    I think the problem with the article is where it becomes a bit preachey and opinionated, and extends
    away from fact. It's good to tell people that the bike racks exist but no more.

    --
    StainlessSteelRat T-Bird: I got trouble. One of my men got himself perished. Top Dollar: Yeah and
    who might that be? T-Bird: Tin Tin, somebody stuck his blades in all his major organs in
    alphabetical order.
     
  6. Al_mossah

    Al_mossah Guest

    A key factor is WHERE they are placed as well. Placing them on the far side of a busy road miles
    from a pedestrian crossing and from any shops, surrounded by a 200m "no-cycling" zone would be par
    for the course for the average town planner. However, maybe these are somewhere where they will be
    seen and used! In which case, great, show that there are not enough of them.

    Peter.

    "wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > ... being a whinging old bag, but I came across the following
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/ajyn
    >
    > "Get out of your car and on to the saddle
    >
    > April 21, 2003 09:48
    >
    > CYCLISTS can now leave their two wheels in safety thanks to a scheme to
    get
    > people out of their cars and on to the saddle.
    >
    > Two new cycle racks were put up in the Great Yarmouth town centre last
    week
    > with more on the way to promote a healthier way of travel.
    >
    > The blue metal shelters, part of a £15,000 Norfolk Cycle Theft Reduction Strategy, have been
    > placed on the corner of Regent Street, near the Town
    Hall,
    > and just off the Market Place for shoppers and workers to use.
    >
    > The cycle racks have been funded by Norfolk County Council from money
    generated
    > by seafront car parking charges in the town.
    >
    > David Glason, senior planning assistant for the borough council, who has
    been
    > consulting the county council on their cycle strategy, said there was
    funds
    > available for more cycle shelters in the town.
    >
    > "There have been discussions as to how these can best serve the public but there are lots of
    > issues involved and no plans have been decided," he
    said.
    >
    > The Victorian design of the cycle shelters and marine blue colour fit in
    with
    > the historic surroundings of Regent Street and the Market Place.
    >
    > "The main aim is to get more people cycling rather than using their cars
    and
    > promote a sustainable mode of transport," said Mr Glason.
    >
    > The theft reduction partnership, which involves members of the county
    council,
    > borough council and police, plans to site more unsheltered cycle racks in Yarmouth and Gorleston
    > as well as the new racks.
    >
    > Cycle racks would be placed in areas where CCTV cameras are operating to
    ensure
    > the safety of the bicycles.
    >
    > Norfolk County Council would like to hear resident's views on the cycle
    racks
    > and where to put new ones in the future. Call Tim Jarvis on 01603 222222.
    >
    > WHAT DO YOU THINK? The Mercury would also like to know resident's views on
    the
    > cycle racks. Write to Feedback on 25 Regent Street, Great Yarmouth or
    email
    > [email protected]"
    >
    > As I said, perhaps it's just me being a whinging old bag, but why should a council be glorifying
    > in publicity for putting up *two* new cycle racks??? Admittedly, I haven't seen the cycle racks,
    > so they may be all-singing,all-dancing cycle racks that shoot cycle thieves on sight, but praising
    > a council for *two* cycle racks as if that's something, well,
    *WOW!!!*
    > ... Perhaps the council is getting the publicity to say, see, we care
    about
    > cyclists BUT ...
    >
    > Me, I'm an old cynic ;-)
    >
    > Cheers, helen s
    >
    >
    > ~~~~~~~~~~
    > Flush out that intestinal parasite and/or the waste product before sending
    a
    > reply!
    >
    > Any speeliong mistake$ aR the resiult of my cats sitting on the
    keyboaRRRDdd
    > ~~~~~~~~~~
     
  7. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter wrote:
    > > ... being a whinging old bag, but I came across the following
    >
    > I think the problem with the article is where it becomes a bit preachey and opinionated, and
    > extends away from fact. It's good to tell people that the bike racks exist but no more.

    I suspect such a factual press release from the council wouldn't even make the small ads. The
    council's press officer is looking to get free column inches for this sort of stuff and so they
    tend to have to make the item a story rather than just a short statement of potentially
    uninteresting fact.

    Colin
     
  8. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Mads Hilberg" [email protected] said:

    >> At the simplest, because he'd chosen to ride his bike in that place at that time in that manner.
    >> Remove any of those elements, and you don't have the incident in its current form.
    >
    >Well now that's just a ridiculous.

    How's it ridiculous? I repeat, alter any of place, time and manner, all of which were under the full
    control of the OP, and you don't have the incident in its current form.

    >The OP clearly stated that they ran into him. I presume he means they ran into the side of him and
    >that he did not cycle into them.

    I'd rather assumed that because one of the kids ended up with a broken leg there'd been a full
    frontal impact. But no, we don't have that detail.

    >You accusations against this cyclist are completely out of place and uncalled for.

    Hang on, I've made no accusations about him at all. I specifically said I wasn't trying to apportion
    blame, I just said he needed to take some responsibility for his actions and not just hide behind
    the cloak of inevitability. Maybe he did nothing wrong at all and would do exactly the same
    tomorrow. But until there's acceptance that this incident was the sum total of the kids' actions
    *and the OP's* then this debate won;t move beyond fingerpointing.

    >My point is that your information about the event is extremely limited

    Agreed.

    >and that your argument quoted above is severely lacking and does nothing to promote better road
    >safety whatsoever.

    Well, I disagree that it's lacking.

    John
     
  9. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Guest

    wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter wrote:

    >As I said, perhaps it's just me being a whinging old bag, but why should a council be glorifying in
    >publicity for putting up *two* new cycle racks??? Admittedly, I haven't seen the cycle racks, so
    >they may be all-singing,all-dancing cycle racks that shoot cycle thieves on sight, but praising a
    >council for *two* cycle racks as if that's something, well, *WOW!!!* ... Perhaps the council is
    >getting the publicity to say, see, we care about cyclists BUT ...

    Perhaps it's because I'm a teacher, but I think that small successes need praise to encourage
    future advances.

    You can still be cynical in private.
    --
    remove remove to reply
     
  10. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter wrote:
    > ... being a whinging old bag, but I came across the following
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/ajyn

    <snips ..>

    > As I said, perhaps it's just me being a whinging old bag, but why should a council be glorifying
    > in publicity for putting up *two* new cycle racks??? Admittedly, I haven't seen the cycle racks,
    > so they may be all-singing,all-dancing cycle racks that shoot cycle thieves on sight, but praising
    > a council for *two* cycle racks as if that's something, well, *WOW!!!* ... Perhaps the council is
    > getting the publicity to say, see, we care about cyclists BUT ...
    >
    > Me, I'm an old cynic ;-)

    Gotta say, yup, you sound just as you describe yourself ..

    I recall a thread in this very newsgroup, not too long ago, when cyclists (can't recall if it was
    you, specifically, and I can't be bothered googling) were be-moaning the fact that there isn't
    enough provision for cycles in cities etc. Now you're moaning 'cos a council does something about it
    and advertises the fact. There's loads of cycling facilities in our cities that aren't used simply
    because people simply don't know about them. Personally I applaud the initiative and don't begrudge
    the council for crowing a little. I hope many more do so too ..

    ;)

    --

    Completed 1611 Seti work units in 12319 hours http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
     
  11. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    In news:[email protected], wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter
    <[email protected]> typed:
    >
    > :) I was taught well, as my mother was a whinging bag of the highest
    > order! ;-) Boy, could she whinge ...shudder ...
    >

    Look on the bright side. Installing those cycle racks probably liberated a few paving slabs for
    alternative uses.

    Tony

    --
    http://www.raven-family.com

    "All truth goes through three steps: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.
    Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer
     
  12. Tony W

    Tony W Guest

    "Gonzalez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > wafflycathcsdirtycatlitter wrote:
    >
    > >As I said, perhaps it's just me being a whinging old bag, but why should
    a
    > >council be glorifying in publicity for putting up *two* new cycle
    racks???
    > >Admittedly, I haven't seen the cycle racks, so they may be all-singing,all-dancing cycle racks
    > >that shoot cycle thieves on sight,
    but
    > >praising a council for *two* cycle racks as if that's something, well,
    *WOW!!!*
    > >... Perhaps the council is getting the publicity to say, see, we care
    about
    > >cyclists BUT ...
    >
    > Perhaps it's because I'm a teacher, but I think that small successes need praise to encourage
    > future advances.

    Is not the reaction to this story a mite negative.

    1 The story describes two 'shelters'. Presumably these are capable of taking more than one bike each
    -- not least because they are describes as being aimed for 'shoppers & workers' to use.

    2. Rack also implies a device to lock several bikes to.

    On the down side this is 'part' of a 15,000 GBP scheme. Local Authorities rarely get out of bed in
    the morning for less than that. Digging a hole to mount the foundations of one neo Victorian, blue
    metal rack could easily cost a significant proportion of 15 grand :(

    I like the bit about 'The cycle racks have been funded by Norfolk County Council from money
    generated by seafront car parking charges in the town.' Perhaps we should crosspost to uk.tosspot --
    should account for a couple more heart attacks over there :)

    All in all I think this is a fairly positive story. GY council have erected two shelters for an
    unknown quantity of bikes. They are intending to put in more racks (without shelters). They intend
    these should be covered by the towns CCTV so there is a small chance Plod might arrive before a bike
    is nicked.

    OK -- no chance of that as the only Norfolk Plod will be somewhere the other side of Swaffam when
    the call comes in, will assume that the bike being nicked is a 69.99 GBP Safeway special so not
    worth his interest, will have more paperwork to do than can be stored in the British Library to do
    to keep his boss quiet and will make a professional judgement that his tea and bun are more
    important :(

    The only strange thing is that this story appeared a couple of days before the local elections. I
    wouldn't have thought there were a lot of votes in cycle shelters -- even neo Victorian ones that
    blend nicely with their surroundings (until Yoof with spray cans get to work).

    T
     
  13. John B

    John B Guest

    Tony W wrote:

    >
    >
    > The only strange thing is that this story appeared a couple of days before the local elections. I
    > wouldn't have thought there were a lot of votes in cycle shelters

    Oh yes there are. Here a measley two Sheffield stands were installed a few weeks ago outside the
    library. The fuss and praise the Lib-Dem Councillor is pouring on herself for being so
    environmentally aware beggars belief.

    She seems to have forgotten the full scheme included several miles of cycle routing/country trails
    and resurfacing/reclassification of other routes which her party quietly hid under the carpet
    several months ago.

    And that her County Council colleague is the one who when a school governor chair set the rules that
    bikes were not allowed on school premises - funny how teachers (and governors) cars are tho'.

    Yep, every little bit counts in the quest for the 'green-aren't I good' vote.

    John B
     
  14. Danny Colyer

    Danny Colyer Guest

    John B wrote:
    > The fuss and praise the Lib-Dem Councillor is pouring on herself for being so environmentally
    > aware beggars belief.
    >
    > She seems to have forgotten the full scheme included several miles of cycle routing/country trails
    > and resurfacing/reclassification of other routes which her party quietly hid under the carpet
    > several months ago.
    >
    > And that her County Council colleague is the one who when a school governor chair set the rules
    > that bikes were not allowed on school premises - funny how teachers (and governors) cars are tho'.

    I really, really hope that a letter to that effect made it's way to the local paper in time to be
    printed before the election.

    Sounds like a fairly typical set of Lib Dem councillors, anyway.

    --
    Danny Colyer (remove safety to reply) ( http://www.juggler.net/danny ) Recumbent cycle page:
    http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/recumbents/ "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." -
    Thomas Paine
     
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