McQuaid attacks Bettinin for not signing anti-doping commitment

[Huis]

I wonder how many people would sign a contract that says they have to be suspended from their line of work and give back one year of pay if they are caught cheating in some way in their line of work. Keep in mind this punishment would be the same if you did it on January 15 or December 15, if it was an honest mistake or a real attempt to cheat, if an incompetent agency says you did it or a competant one. I am not saying Bettini is clean or guilty, just attempting to get a few people to think about this thing the riders have had thrust upon them in their own line of work.

 

[tonyzackery]

I wonder how many people would sign a contract that says they have to be suspended from their line of work and give back one year of pay if they are caught cheating in some way in their line of work. Keep in mind this punishment would be the same if you did it on January 15 or December 15, if it was an honest mistake or a real attempt to cheat, if an incompetent agency says you did it or a competant one. I am not saying Bettini is clean or guilty, just attempting to get a few people to think about this thing the riders have had thrust upon them in their own line of work.

Give me a break, man. Don't trivialize blood doping, taking EPO, using 'roids, etc... It's not the same as someone putting down on their time card that they arrived at work at 8am when they really arrived at 8:15.

Look, nobody is forcing these riders to sign the declaration. Hell, no one is forcing them to be professional cyclists either. They're in the profession of their own free will. You play by the instituted rules, or you get out - worse yet you get busted cheating the rules. Seems pretty simple. There's been too much of this implicit condoning of these ridiculous practices for too long - that's why pro cycling is in the mess it's in presently.

If you can't take the heat, then you get out of the kitchen - and that's what Bettini would rather do than submit to a DNA test that would probably prove he's cheater.

 

[wolfix]

and that's what Bettini would rather do than submit to a DNA test that would probably prove he's cheater.

You guys need to fully understand that Bettini has agreed to a DNA test and has offered his money returned to "his team."....... "That probably proves he's not a cheater."

Understand what is real, and what is being projected by ill informed forum members.

 

[tonyzackery]

You guys need to fully understand that Bettini has agreed to a DNA test and has offered his money returned to "his team."....... "That probably proves he's not a cheater."

Understand what is real, and what is being projected by ill informed forum members.

He may or may not have changed his stance on the DNA issue - I don't know for sure. The fact that he's vacillated on the issue tells me all that I need to know...regardless of ill informed forum members...

 

[Powerful Pete]

Give me a break, man. Don't trivialize blood doping, taking EPO, using 'roids, etc... It's not the same as someone putting down on their time card that they arrived at work at 8am when they really arrived at 8:15.

Look, nobody is forcing these riders to sign the declaration. Hell, no one is forcing them to be professional cyclists either. They're in the profession of their own free will. You play by the instituted rules, or you get out - worse yet you get busted cheating the rules. Seems pretty simple. There's been too much of this implicit condoning of these ridiculous practices for too long - that's why pro cycling is in the mess it's in presently.

If you can't take the heat, then you get out of the kitchen - and that's what Bettini would rather do than submit to a DNA test that would probably prove he's cheater.

1. Actually, given the pressure Bettini was put under, it would appear that riders are being forced to sign the declaration. Although dubious legally, and in any event, getting caught doping would mean a 2 year suspension.

2. Are you saying that by signing the declaration we are doing anything of any import against doping? Or simply helping our German and ASO friends, who have decided that by signing it you are 'signalling a new era in dope free cycling'. LOL.

3. Apparently, as you say, Bettini has stood up to the heat in the kitchen, and has signed off on the DNA thingamajig.

4. I believe that at the level of Bettini (in terms of visibility and earnings) doping positives are due to screw-ups. Look how dissuasive the new and improved anti-doping approach was at the TdF, with Vino...

5. I wonder about playing by the rules in this case. It would appear to me that getting caught doping is already a rather serious offence... splashing out on a marketing oriented declaration is not going to change a thing. Fortunately a Bettini, as one of the senior men in the peloton, with only 1-2 years of riding at pro level left, has the guts (and let's face it, the financial wherewithall) to question what is being instituted.

 

[tonyzackery]

Untrue: College football, CFL and NFL are constructed on steroids.

Joe Montana
Terry Bradshaw
Dana Strubblefield
Bill Romanowski
Todd Steussie
Jeff Mitchell
Chris Cooper
Terrell Ownes
Michael Irvin
Ricky Williams
Todd Stauerbrun
Jim Haslett
Lyle Alzadeo
John Matuszak
Mariet Timothy Ford (Cal Berkeley/Stranford TD legend and triple murderer)
Brain Bosworth

Bo Jackson knew steroids, not just Nike endorsement fees.

Uh, what's your point????

 

[tonyzackery]

You cheer for many steroid abusers too.

You just hate little doper Paolo.

Picking and choosing your drug cheats is a form of hypocrisy.

As is defending blood doper Jan Ulrich and condeming cow blood & steroid doper Lance Pharmstrong.

LOL, you're a joke!! Don't expect to get a rise out of me with those types of silly comments...LOL!! Nice try, whoever you are...

 

[tonyzackery]

So stealing money is not as bad as doping in an effort to win? Think about what 15 minutes a day based on an average level salary of $30,000 would be. That's about $1000 over one year. That's considered a felony. Of course in talking about cheating I never said messing with time cards, I never said anything in particular. Now why didn't you think I meant embezzling money or stealing computers or insider trading? Did that not fit your agenda? Of course then we get into doping. What's worse, someone who tries it a couple of times or someone who bases a whole career on it? Once again I am not trivializing anything, just providing a way to look at it from a less abstract viewpoint. It's easy to criticize when something is abstract.

Didn't the UCI mention something about fines when they announced this declaration? Didn't they also say anyone who did not sign would not be able to race in Le Tour? Didn't they try to keep anyone who did not sign out of the WC's? The answer to all of this is "yes."

Is anyone forcing the banker to be a banker? A garbage man to be a garbage man? A doctor to be a doctor? They have rules as well and punishments, but those punishments are based on what occurred and the circumstances, not simply a blanket penalty no matter what. They also have proven standards that must be met to find guilt, not the farce that is anti-doping. Try to put it in the context of your own profession and think about whether you sign a declaration that says you would be suspended from your professional profession and have to pay a years salary, regardless of what the infraction is, when it occurred or what occurred in the proof phase. Now please show me where I "implicitly condoned" doping. It sounds to me like you have a stance and will keep your eyes closed at anything that might make you think about it from another angle. That's a very dangerous way to think.

Ah, now we get some solid proof of your agenda. You have assigned guilt already and nothing will stand in your way. Perhaps if you reread my last post you would see that Bettini has nothing to do with what i am discussing.

You put considerable time and thought into your reply. Not going to get into a running debate - you've responded and I'll end my engagement in this ***-for-tat...

 

[tonyzackery]

Too bad you couldn't be bothered to think about the things you were wrong about and to look at the declaration from another angle...we could have started an excellent discussion on this forum.

LOL, nice try. Not taking the bait, big boy...

 

[tonyzackery]

If you were paid $129 MILLION or less, you DID NOT make the top 25 money managers at American-based hedge funds last year.

Hedge Fund Operators = license to steal, cheat, lie and blow up the banking system.

No sport dopes worse than college football and the Disney endorsed NFL!

Paolo Bettini is a small fry steroid and blood doper compared with Nike's Michael Vick or Lance Pharmstrong.[/QUOTE}

Uh, whomever you are hiding behind this silly screen name - you got some issues that should be addressed by a professional...

 

[tonyzackery]

Not baiting, you made it quite clear that you have no response so you are going bow out rather then try to have an intelligent discussion. It happens often on forums when someone gets facts sent their way and is asked to think about things from another angle. Enjoy your closed minded attitude.

LOL!! You're just as impotent as Polyheme...Obviously you don't understand that one should pick their battles; not responding to every arrow thrown in one's way...Have a nice life, pal. I'm done with you and polyhemorrhoid...

 

[thoughtforfood]

Huis and Polyheme HAVE to be twins separated at birth. I wish for the sake of intelligent, well reasoned discussion on this forum, that you would both buy server time for yourselves, and have it out Spy vs. Spy style. You both vomit and **** all over the threads here, and obviously have no regard for anyone past yourselves. Please take your puke-fest somewhere else.

 

[ilpirata]

That there is game fixing and corruption in the Italian league I am in complete agreement. That has nothing to do with the play of a national team, it is an injustice to the follower of the italian league, who becomes the fool to think he is watching true sport (Perhaps the cycling fan can comiserate). The host nation forbidding anothers entry is absurd, especially when in the same year they have endured their own game fixing scandal. Or did you not know that?

They let the Italian football team play and win in Germany during the last world cup. How corrupt and scandal ridden is Italian soccer at the moment?

 

[doctorSpoc]

Millar knows the score and he knows what it's like to be in Bettini's 'condition'. He is a strange one, though. This is the same Millar who proclaimed that he was staggered when Vino was busted. I just can't weigh him up. Cue Tommy.

huh???

dope or otherwise Millar has NEVER, EVER known what it is to produce a performance like Bettini... NEVER.... Bettini is an astounding allrounder and Millar, doped or otherwise has been a mildly successful TT'er one trick pony...

and Millar was astounded as i was that Vino got CAUGHT, since is the truly a professional and really should have had his sh!t together.. not that he was doping... was staggered and saddend by what it would do to cycling.. i don't think that Millar has any illusions about doping in cycling

 

[Gregers]

huh???

dope or otherwise Millar has NEVER, EVER known what it is to produce a performance like Bettini... NEVER.... Bettini is an astounding allrounder and Millar, doped or otherwise has been a mildly successful TT'er one trick pony...

and Millar was astounded as i was that Vino got CAUGHT, since is the truly a professional and really should have had his sh!t together.. not that he was doping... was staggered and saddend by what it would do to cycling.. i don't think that Millar has any illusions about doping in cycling

Never thought or suggested that Millar is remotely the equal of Bettini. Self evidently he isn't and very few are. In fairness, I think that a World title and TDF stage qualifies Millar to be regarded as somewhat better than a 'mildly successful TT'er', but in all other respects he is nothing more than a half decent rider. A not particularly likeable or honest one at that.
For those involved in the thread at the time, I was actually replying to Plectrum's preceding post whe he inferred that Millar thought Bettini was a 'drug fiend cheat.' I placed 'condition' in parenthesis to signify that Millar himself knew what it was like to be in that 'condition'. You interpreted this otherwise.
Millar may well have been astounded when Vino was caught. He certainly knew how to beat the tests and would have been genuinely surprised when an old hand like Vino messed up. However, the newly 'clean' and moralizing Millar chose to go before the cameras and put on a nauseating display of hand wringing where he expressed his profound shock that Vino had been revealed as a drug cheat. I think that at one stage a sad little tear dribbled down his dejected face. This was a performance. He was playing the role of an ingenue who was shocked to the core to discover that his hero used PEDs. Now, you and I know all too well that Millar is fully aware of what goes on and what Vino has been up to. That he put on this silly and dishonest pretence is manifestly at odds with his new role as the reformed, poster boy for clean cycling. It demonstrates very clearly to me that Millar is a hypocrite and a phony.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Never thought or suggested that Millar is remotely the equal of Bettini. Self evidently he isn't and very few are. In fairness, I think that a World title and TDF stage qualifies Millar to be regarded as somewhat better than a 'mildly successful TT'er', but in all other respects he is nothing more than a half decent rider. A not particularly likeable or honest one at that.
For those involved in the thread at the time, I was actually replying to Plectrum's preceding post whe he inferred that Millar thought Bettini was a 'drug fiend cheat.' I placed 'condition' in parenthesis to signify that Millar himself knew what it was like to be in that 'condition'. You interpreted this otherwise.
Millar may well have been astounded when Vino was caught. He certainly knew how to beat the tests and would have been genuinely surprised when an old hand like Vino messed up. However, the newly 'clean' and moralizing Millar chose to go before the cameras and put on a nauseating display of hand wringing where he expressed his profound shock that Vino had been revealed as a drug cheat. I think that at one stage a sad little tear dribbled down his dejected face. This was a performance. He was playing the role of an ingenue who was shocked to the core to discover that his hero used PEDs. Now, you and I know all too well that Millar is fully aware of what goes on and what Vino has been up to. That he put on this silly and dishonest pretence is manifestly at odds with his new role as the reformed, poster boy for clean cycling. It demonstrates very clearly to me that Millar is a hypocrite and a phony.

Very interesting post.

 

[wolfix]

Recently news have leaked out [primarily in Italy] attaching to Pereiro to Fuentes. Pereiro has made the following statement......

[size=-1][/size]

[size=-1]An angry Pereiro blasted the allegations Friday and said he would quit cycling if he's forced to provide DNA samples to prove his innocence. [/size]

[size=-1]"I have never spoken with Eufemiano Fuentes," Pereiro told the Spanish newspaper El Mundo. "It's unfair that cyclists have to prove our innocence. I am ready to do anything, but if I have to use DNA to demonstrate my innocence, I will leave cycling, because it's obvious that cycling like that isn't worth it."[/size]

I'm wondering if we will have a repeat of the "Bettini" affair? Will race organizers attempt to ban Pereiro? Bettini said at least he will provide DNA, more then Pereiro has said he will do......
More riders need to stand up to race organizers and make public statements such as Bettini and Pereiro have done. We can have no more trials in the media of a riders guilt.
[size=-1] [/size]

 

[nns1400]

Recently news have leaked out [primarily in Italy] attaching to Pereiro to Fuentes. Pereiro has made the following statement......

[size=-1][/size]

I'm wondering if we will have a repeat of the "Bettini" affair? Will race organizers attempt to ban Pereiro? Bettini said at least he will provide DNA, more then Pereiro has said he will do......
More riders need to stand up to race organizers and make public statements such as Bettini and Pereiro have done. We can have no more trials in the media of a riders guilt.
[size=-1][/size]

I agree that trials in the media are wrong...but come on! If Pereiro would leave cycling rather than submit DNA? That's just beating them to the punch. Clean riders would be lining up to submit DNA so they couldn't be accused in the press or summarily banned from races as is happening now.

 

[wolfix]

I agree that trials in the media are wrong...but come on! If Pereiro would leave cycling rather than submit DNA? That's just beating them to the punch. Clean riders would be lining up to submit DNA so they couldn't be accused in the press or summarily banned from races as is happening now.

But is up to the riders to prove their innocence, or is up to the organizations to prove the guilt first?
We have to ask what rights do the riders actually have .......

 

[Gregers]

This is scarcely original, but the basic premise remains the same-if I was being accused of something serious that I had not done, I would do just about anything to prove that I had not done it. The very last thing that I would do is shrug my shoulders and say that I don't have to prove anything, or some old bollocks like that.
Anybody who refuses to undertake a very simple measure to prove their innocence is not being principled, they are demonstrating pretty conclusively that they are guilty.

Incidentally, Lim, did you notice what England did this afternoon against those powder-puff Aussies?