mech update advice.

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Martinroyce, Jun 19, 2003.

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  1. Martinroyce

    Martinroyce Guest

    I'm in the process of upgrading an older (2 year ish) bike & have a couple of questions. Since funds
    are tight I'm doing component upgrades to get best value for money, then once I've got all nice
    components next money goes on a better frame & so on & so forth (rebuild adfinum)..

    Currently the bike has a shimano 6 speed screw on cassette :-( So I need: New rear wheel/hub New 8/9
    speed cassette New Rear Mech New Chain New Shifters

    Do I need to update anything on the front mech/crankset/chain wheel front yet, or will the above
    work with the existing stuff(Shimano front mech/3 chain rings & faceless crankset) as they work well
    enough and aren't to worn yet. If it makes any difference I'm gonna get Deore/LX compnents as they
    appear to give best price V quality ratio Thanks
     
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  2. Tony W

    Tony W Guest

    "martinroyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I'm in the process of upgrading an older (2 year ish) bike & have a couple of questions. Since
    > funds are tight I'm doing component upgrades to get best value for money, then once I've got all
    > nice components next money goes on a better frame & so on & so forth (rebuild adfinum)..
    >
    > Currently the bike has a shimano 6 speed screw on cassette :-( So I need: New rear wheel/hub New
    > 8/9 speed cassette New Rear Mech New Chain New Shifters
    >
    > Do I need to update anything on the front mech/crankset/chain wheel front yet, or will the above
    > work with the existing stuff(Shimano front mech/3 chain rings & faceless crankset) as they work
    > well enough and aren't to
    worn
    > yet. If it makes any difference I'm gonna get Deore/LX compnents as they appear to give best price
    > V quality ratio

    Before you start -- check to see if you can get a new 8/9 speed wheel & gubbins into the rear
    forks. You may need to get the frame spread -- well nigh impossible with aluminium but no great
    shakes for steel.

    T
     
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    "martinroyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I'm in the process of upgrading an older (2 year ish) bike & have a couple of questions. Since
    > funds are tight I'm doing component upgrades to get best value for money, then once I've got all
    > nice components next money goes on a better frame & so on & so forth (rebuild adfinum)..

    Actually this may well be a more expensive way to do it. Generally groupsets attached to bikes are
    the cheapest way to buy them.

    > Currently the bike has a shimano 6 speed screw on cassette :-(

    If it's a 2 yo bike which came with a 6 speed screw on block, then I wouldn't waste any money at all
    upgrading it - it just won't be worth it.

    > So I need: New rear wheel/hub

    16sq hub, 16sq rim, 10 sq spokes, build it yourself

    > New 8/9 speed cassette

    25sq for 9 speed

    > New Rear Mech

    25sq

    > New Chain

    10sq

    > New Shifters

    32sq

    Total = 135 quid or so for deore kit. How much was the bike originally?

    If funds are tight, second hand is the way forwards.

    cheers, clive
     
  4. Martinroyce

    Martinroyce Guest

    > Actually this may well be a more expensive way to do it. Generally
    groupsets
    > attached to bikes are the cheapest way to buy them.
    >
    > > Currently the bike has a shimano 6 speed screw on cassette :-(
    >
    > If it's a 2 yo bike which came with a 6 speed screw on block, then I wouldn't waste any money at
    > all upgrading it - it just won't be worth it.

    Thanks for the advice. It's a Claude Butler* hardtail frame which I rather like a lot(can't remember
    name as I took the decals off ages ago). I understand that groupsets are cheaper attatched to the
    bike as Manufacturers get bulk discount. But as I still really like the frame the idea is to invest
    in components & at a later date invest in a better frame when I see the one or bargain I like. Also
    I would prefer to go along a custom route, as every bike I ride belonging to mates or from a shop
    has at least one component I don't like or the frame doesn't quite feel as respnonsive.

    *I've got to say the these Claude Butler frames are very nicely built (Obviously not in the Santa
    Cruz/Cannondale bracket) & were real value for money. When I bought this I bought it because of the
    frame not the compenents at the time, although they served me well.

    Thanks Mart
     
  5. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    martinroyce wrote:
    > I'm in the process of upgrading an older (2 year ish) bike & have a couple of questions. Since
    > funds are tight I'm doing component upgrades to get best value for money, then once I've got all
    > nice components next money goes on a better frame & so on & so forth (rebuild adfinum)..
    >
    > Currently the bike has a shimano 6 speed screw on cassette :-( So I need: New rear wheel/hub New
    > 8/9 speed cassette New Rear Mech New Chain New Shifters
    >
    > Do I need to update anything on the front mech/crankset/chain wheel front yet, or will the above
    > work with the existing stuff(Shimano front mech/3 chain rings & faceless crankset) as they work
    > well enough and aren't to worn yet. If it makes any difference I'm gonna get Deore/LX compnents as
    > they appear to give best price V quality ratio

    Depends on the front shifters. If they're indexed, the existing chainrings *might* be too close
    together and the front mech may be less than ideal. Chain may rub on side of other chainring in
    certain normal combinations, anyway.

    For a non-mountain bike, in my opinion, Campagnolo Veloce and Mirage (and Xenon mechs) beats
    anything when it comes to price v quality ratio, and the shifters will work with any chainset and
    front mech. Have a butcher's at the prices (from the best dealers like Parker International, Oldham
    Cycles, etc). Shimano-hubbed wheels can be used with otherwise-Campag systems to use bigger
    cassettes if needs be.

    ~PB
     
  6. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Clive George wrote:
    > If it's a 2 yo bike which came with a 6 speed screw on block, then I wouldn't waste any money at
    > all upgrading it - it just won't be worth
    > it.

    It IS worth it if you like the frame and it fits well, and you can get components cheap or already
    have some to use. I've recently done this project with an old touring bike and I'm very pleased with
    the results (although it still yet needs some tweaking to get the ride as "nice" as I would like).

    ~PB
     
  7. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:52:26 +0100, "Clive George"

    >If it's a 2 yo bike which came with a 6 speed screw on block, then I wouldn't waste any money at
    >all upgrading it - it just won't be worth it.

    I wouldn't necessarily say that - my wife's bike came with a 7-speed screw-on and now has Alesa
    Xplorer rims on Deore LX hubs with a cassette system: the bike fits well and she likes the dynamics,
    but she kept bending the rear axle when towing a trailer bike.

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com Advance
    notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
    between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
    the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > For a non-mountain bike, in my opinion

    a 2 year old bike with a 6 speed block is going to be flat bars.

    >> If it's a 2 yo bike which came with a 6 speed screw on block, then I wouldn't waste any money at
    >> all upgrading it - it just won't be worth
    >> it.
    >
    >It IS worth it if you like the frame and it fits well, and you can get components cheap or
    >already have some to use. I've recently done this project with an old touring bike and I'm very
    >pleased with the results (although it still yet needs some tweaking to get the ride as "nice" as
    >I would like).

    I'd agree that it would be worth it on a nice frame. The sort of bike that came with a 6 speed block
    two years ago almost certainly doesn't fall into this category IMO, though the OP seems to like his.
    And remember he did say he was considering changing the frame at some point in the future. I also
    agree that if you've got the bits cheap or lying around, it becomes a lot more worthwhile - but
    getting shiny new kit is what the OP and I were talking about.

    cheers, clive
     
  9. Peter B

    Peter B Guest

    "martinroyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Currently the bike has a shimano 6 speed screw on cassette :-( So I need: New rear wheel/hub New
    > 8/9 speed cassette New Rear Mech New Chain New Shifters
    >
    > Do I need to update anything on the front mech/crankset/chain wheel front yet, or will the above
    > work with the existing stuff(Shimano front mech/3 chain rings & faceless crankset) as they work
    > well enough and aren't to
    worn
    > yet.

    IMO the frame wouldn't normally be worth upgrading but seeing as you like it why not? Bear in mind
    Tony W's comment re width between rear dropouts, you need 135mm and as stated aluminium frames can't
    be spread. I can follow the logic of building a bike with components you like even if it's not as
    cost effective as buying a ready built bike. (See you post a query about kit on here and you end up
    with us expressing opinions on your decision as well as advice on kit :)

    Anyway....The front chainrings may or may not work with 9 speed, try it and see. Going to 8 speed
    makes the upgrade less valid IMO as you're not getting the latest spec. The current front mech may
    not work, 27 speed fronts have to be set with close tolerances at the best of times, Shimano quote 0
    to 0.5mm clearance 'twixt cage and chain when the chain is on smallest ring/biggest sprocket and
    biggest ring/smallest sprocket!

    www.chainreactioncycles.com offer good prices and free postage.

    Pete
     
  10. David Gillbe

    David Gillbe Guest

    > I'm in the process of upgrading an older (2 year ish) bike & have a couple of questions. Since
    > funds are tight I'm doing component upgrades to get best value for money, then once I've got all
    > nice components next money goes on a better frame & so on & so forth (rebuild adfinum)..
    >
    > Currently the bike has a shimano 6 speed screw on cassette :-( So I need: New rear wheel/hub New
    > 8/9 speed cassette New Rear Mech New Chain New Shifters
    >
    > Do I need to update anything on the front mech/crankset/chain wheel front yet, or will the above
    > work with the existing stuff(Shimano front mech/3 chain rings & faceless crankset) as they work
    > well enough and aren't to
    worn
    > yet. If it makes any difference I'm gonna get Deore/LX compnents as they appear to give best price
    > V quality ratio Thanks
    >

    Sorry, I can't really help on this, but I'm intrigued by what you're doing because I'm very tempted
    to look at doing the same thing. (general question) Do you really need new shifters? Is it not
    possible to simply recalibrate (in some way) the current (in my case 7 speed) shifters that I
    already have?
     
  11. Martinroyce

    Martinroyce Guest

    > Sorry, I can't really help on this, but I'm intrigued by what you're doing because I'm very
    > tempted to look at doing the same thing. (general
    question)
    > Do you really need new shifters? Is it not possible to simply recalibrate (in some way) the
    > current (in my case 7 speed) shifters that I already
    have?

    I 'm not an expert but I don't think you can do this with indexed shifters, older friction
    shifters maybe????

    Now then, thanks to everyone for all the comments on rear width & cost effectivness of doing this.
    Since you're intrigued by what or why I'm doing, here are my reasons.

    It's an off road bike used for my fun rides, originaly Claude Butler, so the frame is made by
    Falcon & as it happens if you look closely at frame model No.s & stuff a lot of Falcon frames
    are the same throughout the range, but with better components as the price goes up. So at the
    time I bought a lower end model that I was going to use as the basis of a rebuild (my 1st
    attempt). So I like the frame it's sturdy, light & fits me well (The 3 most important things if
    you ask me!).

    I've looked at buying a new bike after bottling out on the rebuild once & found nothing I liked
    as much in my price range. If I spend 200 quid on a bike I get possibly a half decent frame
    again & run of the mill components. But for 200 quid I can do a major upgrade on my current
    bike's drive train/wheels (Which has already had a new Marzocci front sus fork so far what a
    difference that made!) & I most importantly get what I like & want on a bike not what a
    manufacurer got the best deal on. I mean who doesn't want a bike to they're own specs. Then
    once the frame goes (or I find something I like better) I've got 2003 compnents to put on a
    shiny new frame.

    Theres my reasons, I'm happy with them. Thanks M<art
     
  12. Sam Huby

    Sam Huby Guest

    You could always use a "road" hub (tiagra/105/ultegra) which have a 130 OLN. Prob. OK even for most
    off road use.

    Sam

    On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:45:53 +0100, "Tony W" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"martinroyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> I'm in the process of upgrading an older (2 year ish) bike & have a couple of questions. Since
    >> funds are tight I'm doing component upgrades to get best value for money, then once I've got all
    >> nice components next money goes on a better frame & so on & so forth (rebuild adfinum)..
    >>
    >> Currently the bike has a shimano 6 speed screw on cassette :-( So I need: New rear wheel/hub New
    >> 8/9 speed cassette New Rear Mech New Chain New Shifters
    >>
    >> Do I need to update anything on the front mech/crankset/chain wheel front yet, or will the above
    >> work with the existing stuff(Shimano front mech/3 chain rings & faceless crankset) as they work
    >> well enough and aren't to
    >worn
    >> yet. If it makes any difference I'm gonna get Deore/LX compnents as they appear to give best
    >> price V quality ratio
    >
    >
    >Before you start -- check to see if you can get a new 8/9 speed wheel & gubbins into the rear
    >forks. You may need to get the frame spread -- well nigh impossible with aluminium but no great
    >shakes for steel.
    >
    >T
     
  13. Sam Huby

    Sam Huby Guest

    Generally for indexed gearing you need 8spd shifters for 8spd cassettes etc. You can of course use
    (say) an 8spd shifter with a 7spd block and just adjust the mech limit screw to eliminate the final
    click at one end or the other.

    More likely if funds are an issue you can fit (say) an 8spd block with aa 7spd shifter and simply
    not use either the largest or the smallest cog. This means you can upgrade the shifter - one of the
    most expensive bits - when you have the readies.

    Sam

    On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 19:12:25 +0100, "David Gillbe" <david.NO^&[email protected]> wrote:

    >> I'm in the process of upgrading an older (2 year ish) bike & have a couple of questions. Since
    >> funds are tight I'm doing component upgrades to get best value for money, then once I've got all
    >> nice components next money goes on a better frame & so on & so forth (rebuild adfinum)..
    >>
    >> Currently the bike has a shimano 6 speed screw on cassette :-( So I need: New rear wheel/hub New
    >> 8/9 speed cassette New Rear Mech New Chain New Shifters
    >>
    >> Do I need to update anything on the front mech/crankset/chain wheel front yet, or will the above
    >> work with the existing stuff(Shimano front mech/3 chain rings & faceless crankset) as they work
    >> well enough and aren't to
    >worn
    >> yet. If it makes any difference I'm gonna get Deore/LX compnents as they appear to give best
    >> price V quality ratio Thanks
    >>
    >
    >Sorry, I can't really help on this, but I'm intrigued by what you're doing because I'm very tempted
    >to look at doing the same thing. (general question) Do you really need new shifters? Is it not
    >possible to simply recalibrate (in some way) the current (in my case 7 speed) shifters that I
    >already have?
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    address...

    cheers, clive
     
  15. Sam Huby <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > You could always use a "road" hub (tiagra/105/ultegra) which have a 130 OLN. Prob. OK even for
    > most off road use.
    >

    I've used 130mm 'road' hubs for cyclo-cross racing and training over the last 2-and-a-bit years with
    no problems. Only reason for occasional replacement was the acquisition of nicer goodies (currently
    Hope front hub, Campag 8sp. Record Ti rear) as funds allowed :)

    David E. Belcher

    Dept. of Chemistry, University of York
     
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