Mel Gibsons True Colors?
- Thread starter davidmc
- Start date
Carrera said:
Your knowledge of history is pretty poor - for someone who claims to have such knowledge.
Carrera said:
There was never any state to remember.
Prior to 1948 no Jewish State existed.
Carrera said:
Interesting thesis.
Benefitting a country.
Who benefitted? Did the country in question benefit or did the Jews in those country's benefit?
That's all open to question.
It is remarkable that a race of people - Jewish people - have managed to anatagonise nationalities across the globe and across time.
Of course, they claim that all of this anatagonism, is based on anti-semiticism, instead of looking at their own behaviour within those societies.
Carrera said:
We gathered that.
Carrera said:
You made a series of false claims.
You stated that 6 Muslim men shot a women PC in Bradford some months back.
That was a lie.
You stated that the the two Muslim men falsely arrested - during which one was shot and injured in London - were terrorists.
That was another lie.
In addition you have stated factually incorrect information in relation to the history of Palestine and the Zionist movement.
They too were lies.
Carrera said:
So why falsely claim that 6 Muslims had murdered a PC, for example?
You make things up all the time.
Carrera said:
That's your real issue.
That is what bothers you - you cannot accept the fact that Britain, because it is an open society, allows immigration.
Carrera said:
There is no anti-semiticism in Britain or France.
I think you're misunderstanding my take on Moslems. It would be absurd to go around stating such and such a murderer is a Moslem, a Christian, a Jew. It would be slander.
What I may have done in the past is failed to distinguish between a "moslem" and an "Islamic extremist" and then been misunderstood.
There are moderate Moslems and Christians and there are fanatics. There is Billy Graham and David Koresh. One is a moderate the other was a fanatic.
Generally speaking, though, I am no fan of religion.
"You stated that the the two Muslim men falsely arrested - during which one was shot and injured in London - were terrorists."
Actually I opened a thread on that case and my stance was the Police shouldn't have shot the man without warning and that I disagreed with the way the situation was handled. The thread is still a couple of pages down to be seen by anone who cares to read it.
What I may have done in the past is failed to distinguish between a "moslem" and an "Islamic extremist" and then been misunderstood.
There are moderate Moslems and Christians and there are fanatics. There is Billy Graham and David Koresh. One is a moderate the other was a fanatic.
Generally speaking, though, I am no fan of religion.
"You stated that the the two Muslim men falsely arrested - during which one was shot and injured in London - were terrorists."
Actually I opened a thread on that case and my stance was the Police shouldn't have shot the man without warning and that I disagreed with the way the situation was handled. The thread is still a couple of pages down to be seen by anone who cares to read it.
limerickman said:
"There was never any state to remember.Prior to 1948 no Jewish State existed."
I recall turning that argument round a couple of posts back. I pointed out there wasn't actually a country called England when the Romans arrived on this island and I still stand by that claim.
As I said, Julius Caesar found a number of tribes of various ethnic origins, villages called "oppida" and a capital Londinium. The most renowned tribe was the Iceni who rebelled against the Romans and slaughtered in the same way Jews were - there's a film about it. There were several tribes.
However, there was no country called England that existed. The Romans certainly had the adjective "Iudaicus" or "Germanicus" or "Gallicus" but England never featured on any map - and I have these maps in my cupboards. There was no English language.
There was Latin, Hebrew and Greek, however. The national religion here was probably druidism.
I recall turning that argument round a couple of posts back. I pointed out there wasn't actually a country called England when the Romans arrived on this island and I still stand by that claim.
As I said, Julius Caesar found a number of tribes of various ethnic origins, villages called "oppida" and a capital Londinium. The most renowned tribe was the Iceni who rebelled against the Romans and slaughtered in the same way Jews were - there's a film about it. There were several tribes.
However, there was no country called England that existed. The Romans certainly had the adjective "Iudaicus" or "Germanicus" or "Gallicus" but England never featured on any map - and I have these maps in my cupboards. There was no English language.
There was Latin, Hebrew and Greek, however. The national religion here was probably druidism.
limerickman said:
Why I likened religion to a virus and why it can be imported into a secular society. Here's Prof Dawkin's take one it:
"I am often asked to explain as a biologist why religion has such a hold. The theory is this: When a child is young, for good Darwinian reasons, it would be valuable if the child believed everything it's told. A child needs to learn a language, it needs to learn the social customs of its people, it needs to learn all sorts of rules -- like don't put your finger in the fire, and don't pick up snakes, and don't eat red berries. There are lots of things that for good survival reasons a child needs to learn.
So it's understandable that Darwinian natural selection would have built into the child's brain the rule of thumb, "Be fantastically gullible; believe everything you're told by your elders and betters."
That's a good rule, and it works. But any rule that says "Believe everything you're told" is automatically going to be vulnerable to parasitization. Computers, for example, are vulnerable to parasitization because they believe all they're told. If you tell them in the right programming language, they'll do it. Computer viruses work by somebody writing a program that says, "Duplicate me and, while you're at it, erase this entire disk." My point is that the survival mechanism that makes children's brains believe what they're told -- for good reason -- is automatically vulnerable to parasitic codes such as "You must believe in the great juju in the sky," or "You must kneel down and face east and pray five times a day." These codes are then passed down through generations. And there's no obvious reason why it should stop.
There's an additional factor in the virus theory, which is that those viruses that are good at surviving will be the ones that are more likely to survive. So, if the virus says, "If you don't believe in this you will go to hell when you die," that's a pretty potent threat, especially to a child. Or, if it says, "When you become a little bit older you will meet people who will tell you the opposite of this, and they will have remarkably plausible arguments and they'll have lots of what they'll call evidence on their side and you'll be really tempted to believe it, but the more tempted you are, the more that's just Satan getting at you." This is exactly what many creationists in this country have been primed with.
Before I discovered Darwin, I was fascinated by the apparent design and beauty of living things. I knew enough biology to know that living creatures are prodigiously complicated and elegant. They look exactly as though they'd been designed. That was why I believed in a divine creator. Because I had been so persuaded by this argument for design, when I discovered Darwinism, I had a kind of "road to Damascus" experience.
I think there is a serenity that comes from understanding, from being able to solve a mystery. And the bigger the mystery, the greater the serenity. When you think about the diversity, complexity, and beauty of life -- the elegance of the apparent design of life -- it adds up to a colossal mystery. And the solution, Darwin's solution, is quite remarkably simple. My serenity comes from the satisfaction of seeing a really, really neat, elegant explanation that can explain so much."
"I am often asked to explain as a biologist why religion has such a hold. The theory is this: When a child is young, for good Darwinian reasons, it would be valuable if the child believed everything it's told. A child needs to learn a language, it needs to learn the social customs of its people, it needs to learn all sorts of rules -- like don't put your finger in the fire, and don't pick up snakes, and don't eat red berries. There are lots of things that for good survival reasons a child needs to learn.
So it's understandable that Darwinian natural selection would have built into the child's brain the rule of thumb, "Be fantastically gullible; believe everything you're told by your elders and betters."
That's a good rule, and it works. But any rule that says "Believe everything you're told" is automatically going to be vulnerable to parasitization. Computers, for example, are vulnerable to parasitization because they believe all they're told. If you tell them in the right programming language, they'll do it. Computer viruses work by somebody writing a program that says, "Duplicate me and, while you're at it, erase this entire disk." My point is that the survival mechanism that makes children's brains believe what they're told -- for good reason -- is automatically vulnerable to parasitic codes such as "You must believe in the great juju in the sky," or "You must kneel down and face east and pray five times a day." These codes are then passed down through generations. And there's no obvious reason why it should stop.
There's an additional factor in the virus theory, which is that those viruses that are good at surviving will be the ones that are more likely to survive. So, if the virus says, "If you don't believe in this you will go to hell when you die," that's a pretty potent threat, especially to a child. Or, if it says, "When you become a little bit older you will meet people who will tell you the opposite of this, and they will have remarkably plausible arguments and they'll have lots of what they'll call evidence on their side and you'll be really tempted to believe it, but the more tempted you are, the more that's just Satan getting at you." This is exactly what many creationists in this country have been primed with.
Before I discovered Darwin, I was fascinated by the apparent design and beauty of living things. I knew enough biology to know that living creatures are prodigiously complicated and elegant. They look exactly as though they'd been designed. That was why I believed in a divine creator. Because I had been so persuaded by this argument for design, when I discovered Darwinism, I had a kind of "road to Damascus" experience.
I think there is a serenity that comes from understanding, from being able to solve a mystery. And the bigger the mystery, the greater the serenity. When you think about the diversity, complexity, and beauty of life -- the elegance of the apparent design of life -- it adds up to a colossal mystery. And the solution, Darwin's solution, is quite remarkably simple. My serenity comes from the satisfaction of seeing a really, really neat, elegant explanation that can explain so much."
"That is what bothers you - you cannot accept the fact that Britain, because it is an open society, allows immigration."
What disturbs me is religious ideology being imported into society. Once Governments start to threaten us with blasphemy laws and try to curb free speech, I get upset (and angry). I have no objection at all to anyone believing a religion, be it Krishna, Christianity, Islam, Judaism or Kabbalah. However, once that belief is legislated upon and free speech suffers, I become intolerant.
Not too long ago this Government was drawing up blasphemy laws that went so far as to prevent criticism of religion (possibly in theatre or on T.V.). This is why I get so uptight.
What disturbs me is religious ideology being imported into society. Once Governments start to threaten us with blasphemy laws and try to curb free speech, I get upset (and angry). I have no objection at all to anyone believing a religion, be it Krishna, Christianity, Islam, Judaism or Kabbalah. However, once that belief is legislated upon and free speech suffers, I become intolerant.
Not too long ago this Government was drawing up blasphemy laws that went so far as to prevent criticism of religion (possibly in theatre or on T.V.). This is why I get so uptight.
limerickman said:
From the NY times:darkboong said:
SEATTLE, July 28 — Five people were injured and one was killed Friday afternoon when a man who expressed anger toward Jews opened fire in the offices of the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle, the authorities said.
The Seattle Police did not identify the suspect. They said he was arrested 12 minutes after the first report came in to emergency dispatchers. At 4:03 p.m., according to Assistant Chief Nick Metz, dispatchers received a call saying people had been shot and hostages taken at the offices of the federation, a fund-raising and planning organization at the edge of downtown.
Two minutes later, 911 dispatchers were on the phone with the suspect, said Chief R. Gil Kerlikowske of the Seattle Police, at a news conference Friday night.
Because of what the suspect said in that conversation, which the chief would not disclose, the shootings are being treated as a hate crime, he said. Chief Kerlikowske said the suspect was Muslim.
The authorities said they did not think the suspect was acting as part of a terrorist group.
“We believe at this point that it’s just a lone individual acting out some kind of antagonism toward this particular organization,” said David Gomez, the Federal Bureau of Investigation agent who heads its counterterrorism unit in Seattle.
Mr. Gomez said his agency had been “monitoring” both Jewish and Muslim organizations, and reaching out to their leaders “for the last couple of weeks, since the beginning of hostilities in the Middle East.”
Frederick Dutt, an F.B.I. agent, said the agency had issued two bulletins, on July 21 and on Wednesday, urging “vigilance” at organizations and religious locations in light of the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah in the Middle East. “Not specific targets because we didn’t have that information, to be honest,” he said.
Mr. Dutt noted there was an attack on a mosque in Seattle after Sept. 11, 2001. And the F.B.I. investigated two mosques for ties to Al Qaeda.
Marla Meislin-Dietrich, who works in the federation’s development department but was not in the office at the time of the shooting, said a colleague told her that one shooting victim said she had heard the gunman say “that he was a Muslim-American and that he was angry at Israel.”
“That’s all I know,” said Ms. Meislin-Dietrich, who spent the day working — and learning to bake challah — at the home of Amy Wasser-Simpson, the federation’s vice president. “I talked to the person who was running out of the building with the person who was shot in the arm. She gave me the quote.”
“The news is quoting us, and we don’t know,” she added. “We don’t know who’s dead, we don’t know for sure.”
Sgt. Deanna Nollette of the police said she believed all of the victims were women.
Ms. Meislin-Dietrich said that about 25 people typically work in the group’s offices, which occupy the entire second floor of a modest building on Third Avenue in the Belltown neighborhood. Fewer were there Friday afternoon because of the onset of the Sabbath and because it is summer, she said.
The police found a vehicle they believed belonged to the suspect and planned to test it for explosives although they did not expect to find any, Chief Metz said.
The police closed off several blocks around the federation’s offices and briefly required people to stay inside other buildings nearby. At one point there was concern among people nearby that a gunman was on the rooftops, but Rich Pruitt, a spokesman for the Seattle Police, said those fears were unfounded.
The police said they recovered a handgun that the suspect put down before he surrendered.
Laura Laughlin, special agent in the F.B.I.’s Seattle office, said that the suspect was a United States citizen and that agents were interviewing his relatives.
Mayor Greg Nickels said at the news conference, “This is a crime of hate, and there’s no place for that in the city of Seattle.”
Asked whether the suspect had links to a local mosque, Mr. Nickels said, “He’s not a resident of the city, and we know of no other connection he has
My life long ambition has been to sit around in my underpants all day drinking beer and watching daytime television.Unfortunately I have been brainwashed by the protestant work ethic and this is probably another dream that will never be realised.jhuskey said:
I know just the bar...there is a large sign at the front door which reads "Please remove your colours before entering.".
Politics aside I painted my boat again today - the side. I was quite happy with the finish. The roof and sides are now finished in Brightside and I have found a good marine engineer to service the engine. Next I have to do the stern, bow and footrails.
stevebaby said:My life long ambition has been to sit around in my underpants all day drinking beer and watching daytime television.Unfortunately I have been brainwashed by the protestant work ethic and this is probably another dream that will never be realised.
I know just the bar...there is a large sign at the front door which reads "Please remove your colours before entering.".
azdroptop said:
I think it is absolutely pathetic how society worships 'celebrities'.... Ooooo, you can memorize some lines and have your face on a big screen. That's great. Aside from that, I do not care about anything you say. You make millions of dollars per film, and yet, all your lives are sooo 'tough'.. haha
The real news is no longer reported. It's all 'info-tainment'. My local news goes for these cheap dramatic stories that no one should care about. Prime time news is now shows like 'Extra, Entertainment News'. Then 'news broadcasts' have huge segments about movies/hollywood garbage.
The fact that tv shows get precedent over Presidential Addresses is the newest low. People complain about how things are done, but do not listen (Please do not say things like 'oh, it's because it's Bush'. I think Clinton had some speeches ignored as well).
This whole Mel Gibson debacle, yes, it is a 'big deal' because of all the things he has been doing before it, but, after a week of this stuff, move on.
So much real news is ignored.
It's called supply and demand in a free market.TrekDedicated said:
If you don't like it ...you have the freedom to start your own multi-national media conglomerate to take on the half-dozen or so companies which presently control most media in the us.
Don't you?
The media furore has been concentrated on gibson's anti-semitic opinions.Quite rightly,he has been condemned for those opinions.
Having an opinion is not yet illegal.
Has everyone forgotten that he drove while intoxicated and directly and recklessly endangered the lives of everyone else on the road that night?
Having an opinion is not yet illegal.
Has everyone forgotten that he drove while intoxicated and directly and recklessly endangered the lives of everyone else on the road that night?
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