"Melb will need a congestion charge"



flyingdutch

New Member
Feb 8, 2004
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The little paper
New push for city congestion levy
By Andrew West
26mar05

A LONDON-style congestion charge to cut traffic in choked areas of Australia's biggest cities is back on the agenda after a report for a key business group urged state governments to introduce such a levy.

The report, Reforming and Restoring Australia's Infrastructure, commissioned by the Business Council of Australia, says introducing some form of fee on vehicles entering the central business districts and surrounding neighbourhoods could dramatically ease urban congestion.

The report argues that in Melbourne, for example, a congestion charge could cut the number of vehicles on the road and increase the average speed to 22.7km/h, faster than motorists now travel.

"If a congestion charge is imposed on the Melbourne CBD, then the congested vehicle hours return to more acceptable levels, while the average travel speed actually increases to higher than 2001 levels," it says.

The report estimates that urban road congestion costs Australia around $16 billion a year and predicts that in Melbourne, it will double by 2021.

It also forecasts average travel speeds across Melbourne will fall from 19.7km/h to 15.2km/h. In London, the metropolitan authority levies a daily pound stg. 5 ($12) fee on cars entering the city centre. It has cut traffic by 15per cent and congestion by 30 per cent.

But such levies are contentious in Australia, and a spokeswoman for Victorian Transport Minister Peter Batchelor said: "There are no plans to introduce any such tax. The Government has made it clear that it will not be tolling existing roads."

But during last year's Melbourne local government elections, Mr Batchelor conceded there would eventually be a debate about introducing a congestion charge.
)http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/12/15/1039656296689.html)

In Sydney, Lord Mayor Clover Moore said she did not have the power to introduce such a toll and would not consider it until the state Government committed itself to improving public transport within a 10km radius of the CBD.

"At the moment, I prefer the carrot, not the stick to ease the city's congestion," she said.

The BCA report was written by Rod Sims, a principal of Port Jackson Partners consultancy and a former deputy secretary in the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet.

His report used modelling undertaken by the Victorian Department of Infrastructure, but the department has not endorsed a congestion charge.

The report does not prescribe a specific congestion charge, but suggests a hefty inner-city parking levy in Melbourne.

"In the inner metropolitan area, the average travel speed increases significantly with the introduction of an inner-city parking charge," it says.

"While no one wants to pay a congestion charge, each individual's stance will depend on how they value their time otherwise lost in traffic congestion.

The report says that in inner metropolitan areas, "charges must be an important part of the traffic management mix. Not to utilise them is to condemn inner-city areas to eventual gridlock at certain times."

Yeah, bring it on! "increase the average speed to 22.7km/h"
wow! think how much faster they'd be on a train/tram or a bike :rolleyes:
 
H

hippy

Guest
flyingdutch wrote:
> The little paper
> New push for city congestion levy

<snip>

> Yeah, bring it on! "increase the average speed to 22.7km/h"
> wow! think how much faster they'd be on a train/tram or a bike
> :rolleyes:


I'd rather see a congestion charge than not - unless it reduced public
transport spending. Anything that makes people think twice about driving
into the CBD is cool with me. It should encourage PT/bike/foot travel
and reduce the number of people heading into the city because <insert
large chain store here> is bigger than their nearby suburban one.
Reduce the amount of people heading into the CBD and you also reduce the
amount driving through all the 'burbs to get there.

hippy
- heading to cambersmell for pancakes (food therapy :))
 
R

Ray Peace

Guest
flyingdutch wrote:

> The little paper
> New push for city congestion levy
> By Andrew West
> 26mar05
>
> A LONDON-style congestion charge to cut traffic in choked areas of
> Australia's biggest cities is back on the agenda after a report for a
> key business group urged state governments to introduce such a levy.
>
> The report, Reforming and Restoring Australia's Infrastructure,
> commissioned by the Business Council of Australia, says introducing
> some form of fee on vehicles entering the central business districts
> and surrounding neighbourhoods could dramatically ease urban
> congestion.
>
> The report argues that in Melbourne, for example, a congestion charge
> could cut the number of vehicles on the road and increase the average
> speed to 22.7km/h, faster than motorists now travel.
>
> "If a congestion charge is imposed on the Melbourne CBD, then the
> congested vehicle hours return to more acceptable levels, while the
> average travel speed actually increases to higher than 2001 levels," it
> says.
>
> The report estimates that urban road congestion costs Australia around
> $16 billion a year and predicts that in Melbourne, it will double by
> 2021.
>
> It also forecasts average travel speeds across Melbourne will fall from
> 19.7km/h to 15.2km/h. In London, the metropolitan authority levies a
> daily pound stg. 5 ($12) fee on cars entering the city centre. It has
> cut traffic by 15per cent and congestion by 30 per cent.
>
> But such levies are contentious in Australia, and a spokeswoman for
> Victorian Transport Minister Peter Batchelor said: "There are no plans
> to introduce any such tax. The Government has made it clear that it
> will not be tolling existing roads."
>
> But during last year's Melbourne local government elections, Mr
> Batchelor conceded there would eventually be a debate about introducing
> a congestion charge.
> )http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/12/15/1039656296689.html)
>
> In Sydney, Lord Mayor Clover Moore said she did not have the power to
> introduce such a toll and would not consider it until the state
> Government committed itself to improving public transport within a 10km
> radius of the CBD.
>
> "At the moment, I prefer the carrot, not the stick to ease the city's
> congestion," she said.
>
> The BCA report was written by Rod Sims, a principal of Port Jackson
> Partners consultancy and a former deputy secretary in the Department of
> Prime Minister and Cabinet.
>
> His report used modelling undertaken by the Victorian Department of
> Infrastructure, but the department has not endorsed a congestion
> charge.
>
> The report does not prescribe a specific congestion charge, but
> suggests a hefty inner-city parking levy in Melbourne.
>
> "In the inner metropolitan area, the average travel speed increases
> significantly with the introduction of an inner-city parking charge,"
> it says.
>
> "While no one wants to pay a congestion charge, each individual's
> stance will depend on how they value their time otherwise lost in
> traffic congestion.
>
> The report says that in inner metropolitan areas, "charges must be an
> important part of the traffic management mix. Not to utilise them is to
> condemn inner-city areas to eventual gridlock at certain times."
>
> Yeah, bring it on! "increase the average speed to 22.7km/h"
> wow! think how much faster they'd be on a train/tram or a bike
> :rolleyes:
>
>

Bloody fools. Never works. The lack of viable alternatives is why
people use cars in the first place, speeding them up will simply
encourage more, like freeways, they never work either. If we had a
public transport system that wasn't stuck in the 19th century we
wouldn't have this problem in the first place.
R.
 

flyingdutch

New Member
Feb 8, 2004
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0
Ray Peace said:
Bloody fools. Never works. The lack of viable alternatives is why
people use cars in the first place, speeding them up will simply
encourage more, like freeways, they never work either. If we had a
public transport system that wasn't stuck in the 19th century we
wouldn't have this problem in the first place.
R.

Never?
think London might disagree with you there. 20% reduction in vehicles and 30% increase in trip speeds, and MORE people going into their centre!
Obviously all the money they collect should be spent on PT. making it free would be even better. they currently spend more on collecting fares and fining people than they collect :rolleyes:
 
B

Brett

Guest
flyingdutch <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> <big snip>
>
> Yeah, bring it on! "increase the average speed to 22.7km/h"
> wow! think how much faster they'd be on a train/tram or a bike
>:rolleyes:
>
>


Hold on a sec though. Due to the very poor design of many of our cities
(lack of radial and link roads and rail) there is little choice but to
transit through the CBD (this is particularly the case in Brisbane).
That means that all traffic is being channeled to a very constricted
area and no one will have a real choice of routes. The ludicrous tunnel
idea will not fix that.

Before congestion charging will work they really need to address the
radial road issue. Which will cost bucket loads ($3.5mill/km) It would
also help PT by allowing direct node to node transit (and the bike cycle
commuter as well). BTW Canberra is the only place in Australia to
really have this sorted.

If you don't sort radials then traffic will attempt to avoid the CBD by
"rat-running" down local streets.

It would also be worth reading some of the English traffic journals.
While London city has been sorted the other councils around it are
screaming blue murder due to the congestion it's causing in their areas.

Of course if is was the BCA I would support it since it would speed my
travel in the limousine between the office and one's home or on those
dreadful last minute overseas consultation visits ensure that one could
relax briefly with one's peers in the Quantas Club (Gold of course).

Check Manhattan some time. Pedestrians, buses, subways, taxis, cycle
couriers (but not commuters) and the very seriously rich who can afford
a chauffeur and could get clearance for the helicopter.


Cheers

Brett
 
T

TimC

Guest
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 at 21:51 GMT, hippy (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> - heading to cambersmell for pancakes (food therapy :))


Yes. We did notice your distinct absense. I take it the SS was too
drunk to ride straight?

--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
Hell - n. The current residence of Mr. Noah Webster, Lexicographer.
(Ambrose Bierce, _The Devil's Dictionary_)
 
P

Peter Keller

Guest
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 07:51:10 +1000, hippy wrote:

> flyingdutch wrote:
>> The little paper
>> New push for city congestion levy

> <snip>
>
>> Yeah, bring it on! "increase the average speed to 22.7km/h"
>> wow! think how much faster they'd be on a train/tram or a bike
>> :rolleyes:

>
> I'd rather see a congestion charge than not - unless it reduced public
> transport spending. Anything that makes people think twice about driving
> into the CBD is cool with me. It should encourage PT/bike/foot travel
> and reduce the number of people heading into the city because <insert
> large chain store here> is bigger than their nearby suburban one.
> Reduce the amount of people heading into the CBD and you also reduce the
> amount driving through all the 'burbs to get there.
>
> hippy
> - heading to cambersmell for pancakes (food therapy :))


Auckland (NZ) is thinking seriously of reducing the size of parking spaces
in the CBD so that they are too small for SUV's aka Toorak (Remuera)
Tractors.

Peter

--
If you are careful enough in life, nothing bad -- or
good -- will ever happen to you.
 
J

John Tserkezis

Guest
Ray Peace wrote:

> If we had a public transport system that wasn't stuck in the 19th century
> we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.


YOU have a 19th century public transport system!?

You've obviously never tried trains in Sydney.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622 <http://counter.li.org>
 
T

Terry Collins

Guest
Brett wrote:
>
>
> Hold on a sec though. Due to the very poor design of many of our cities
> (lack of radial and link roads and rail) there is little choice but to
> transit through the CBD (this is particularly the case in Brisbane).


Cheap ******* {:). Pay the toll. The last time I went to Brisbane, we
undertook this enormous big circle right around the Brisbane Metro. I
can remember it well "What, another %$%$% toll?"
 
K

kim

Guest
flyingdutch wrote:
> think London might disagree with you there. 20% reduction in vehicles
> and 30% increase in trip speeds, and MORE people going into their
> centre!


i wonder if they are abusing the statistics here a little bit.

there have been extensive road works throughout central london over the last few years.
not to mention that the central line (tube/underground train) was out for repairs there for a while.

comparing traffic across summer to winter stats might also be misleading too...

traffic in winter is usually much worse that it is in summer.
certainly in central london where i lived and along my commute.
its just not sane to own a car in london... parking fines are insane.

there are a number of funky bike shops near where i lived.
my favourite was on Lambs Conduit (thats the name of the road), '
just down from a nice pub called the 'Lamb' =)
do a good line in chocolate stout...

cheers,

kim
 
K

kim

Guest
Brett wrote:
> Before congestion charging will work they really need to address the
> radial road issue. Which will cost bucket loads ($3.5mill/km) It would
> also help PT by allowing direct node to node transit (and the bike cycle
> commuter as well). BTW Canberra is the only place in Australia to
> really have this sorted.


does adelaide not fit this model too?
it does look a bit crazy on the map, but a least you don't have to go through the city...

> If you don't sort radials then traffic will attempt to avoid the CBD by
> "rat-running" down local streets.


you're never going to aviod that, folks will always want to take short cuts...

> It would also be worth reading some of the English traffic journals.
> While London city has been sorted the other councils around it are
> screaming blue murder due to the congestion it's causing in their areas.


north london sux rather badly, but much of south londons roads are better.
not really sure about east or west outside of zone 2 tho.
there are lots of areas in inner london that go from 2 lanes to 1 lane
and back again in a hundred yards... not to mention parked cars etc, etc
buses overtaking and rubbish trucks doing the rounds at peak hour.
spent a lot of time commuting by bus and reading or 'puting.

cheers,

kim
 

flyingdutch

New Member
Feb 8, 2004
5,700
0
0
kim said:
there are a number of funky bike shops near where i lived.
my favourite was on Lambs Conduit (thats the name of the road), '
just down from a nice pub called the 'Lamb' =)
do a good line in chocolate stout...

cheers,

kim

'Chocolate stout'

There IS a god!!!

Hippy. you gotta get some of this elixir and mail it back! :D
 
H

hippy

Guest
flyingdutch wrote:
> kim Wrote:
>>there are a number of funky bike shops near where i lived.
>>my favourite was on Lambs Conduit (thats the name of the road), '
>>just down from a nice pub called the 'Lamb' =)
>>do a good line in chocolate stout...

>
> 'Chocolate stout'
> There IS a god!!!
> Hippy. you gotta get some of this elixir and mail it back! :D


Youngs Double Chocolate Stout:
http://www.youngs.co.uk/htmldocs/products/products.asp?SelectedID=12

Brooklyn Black Choc Stout (8.3%):
http://www.bottledbeer.co.uk/index.html?beerid=482

The SuzyJ (DIY :)) option:
http://www.diamalt.co.uk/masterclass.htm

and the accompaniment:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?threadid=367649

What's the cheapest way to send cases of beer from EU to Oz?

hippy
 
K

Kim Hawtin

Guest
hippy wrote:
> flyingdutch wrote:
>> kim Wrote:
>>> there are a number of funky bike shops near where i lived.
>>> my favourite was on Lambs Conduit (thats the name of the road), '
>>> just down from a nice pub called the 'Lamb' =)
>>> do a good line in chocolate stout...

>>
>> 'Chocolate stout'
>> There IS a god!!!
>> Hippy. you gotta get some of this elixir and mail it back! :D

>
> Youngs Double Chocolate Stout:
> http://www.youngs.co.uk/htmldocs/products/products.asp?SelectedID=12


8<

> and the accompaniment:
> http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?threadid=367649


hmmmmm jolt ... no ... must re .. sist!

kim
~ growing weaker by the minute