Melbourne - North Road Group Crash (again?)
- Thread starter ACP
- Start date
ACP said:Is there anyone around who heard about the crash this morning in the 6.00 am North Rd group?
Just been told it has been a regular occurance with the 6 am groupies... any news? Hope all are well and (fingers crossed) no damage to bodies or bikes....
even more worrying when groups get a stereotype applied to them
sheet happens. if you ride more, sheet happens more*
* except for when it happens less due to riders being more experienced, blahlblahblah
flyingdutch said:even more worrying when groups get a stereotype applied to them
sheet happens. if you ride more, sheet happens more*
* except for when it happens less due to riders being more experienced, blahlblahblah
Given that they do a combined conservative total of something like 16,000 rider km's per week (80 riders x 40km's by 5 days) you would expect that some crashes do occur. Unfortunately there seem to be minor incidents every couple of weeks, probably well above the average time between accidents, something like 50,000 rider km's.
PiledHigher
I was involved in the bunch crash that happened two weeks ago.. I've been trying to ride with that bunch every morning and I actually find it's a really good well behaved bunch a lot of days and then on the fast days it seems to get really scrappy..PiledHigher said:
When it went down two weeks ago you had 3/4 riders abreast and a lot of jostling for position and riders coming up the inside of others and also people riding on triathlon bars in the bunch..
As soon as I get back out on the road I'm going to try and find a different bunch to ride with on Tuesdays and Thursdays and stick with the North Rd bunch for the rest of the week...
Hopefully nobody was seriously injured this morning...
B
Bleve
Guest
PiledHigher wrote:
> flyingdutch Wrote:
> > even more worrying when groups get a stereotype applied to them
> >
> >
> > sheet happens. if you ride more, sheet happens more*
> >
> > * except for when it happens less due to riders being more experienced,
> > blahlblahblah
>
> Given that they do a combined conservative total of something like
> 16,000 rider km's per week (80 riders x 40km's by 5 days) you would
> expect that some crashes do occur. Unfortunately there seem to be minor
> incidents every couple of weeks, probably well above the average time
> between accidents, something like 50,000 rider km's.
gross generalisation :
Tuesday - fast day - riders at this time of year who aren't strong
enough to ride it without flaring out ... concentration goes when blown
... and crunch.
That's just another reason I don't do the North Rd rides anymore :-/
> flyingdutch Wrote:
> > even more worrying when groups get a stereotype applied to them
> >
> >
> > sheet happens. if you ride more, sheet happens more*
> >
> > * except for when it happens less due to riders being more experienced,
> > blahlblahblah
>
> Given that they do a combined conservative total of something like
> 16,000 rider km's per week (80 riders x 40km's by 5 days) you would
> expect that some crashes do occur. Unfortunately there seem to be minor
> incidents every couple of weeks, probably well above the average time
> between accidents, something like 50,000 rider km's.
gross generalisation :
Tuesday - fast day - riders at this time of year who aren't strong
enough to ride it without flaring out ... concentration goes when blown
... and crunch.
That's just another reason I don't do the North Rd rides anymore :-/
Bleve said:PiledHigher wrote:
> flyingdutch Wrote:
> > even more worrying when groups get a stereotype applied to them
> >
> >
> > sheet happens. if you ride more, sheet happens more*
> >
> > * except for when it happens less due to riders being more experienced,
> > blahlblahblah
>
> Given that they do a combined conservative total of something like
> 16,000 rider km's per week (80 riders x 40km's by 5 days) you would
> expect that some crashes do occur. Unfortunately there seem to be minor
> incidents every couple of weeks, probably well above the average time
> between accidents, something like 50,000 rider km's.
gross generalisation :
Tuesday - fast day - riders at this time of year who aren't strong
enough to ride it without flaring out ... concentration goes when blown
... and crunch.
That's just another reason I don't do the North Rd rides anymore :-/
Probably a fair comment with regard to skills under pressure. I find that the wednesdays on the way back can be worse than the tuesdays skill wise despite very similar intensity. Just that the wednesday is the hard day for those not ready to step up to tuesdays.
PiledHigher
Z
Zebee Johnstone
Guest
In aus.bicycle on Tue, 8 Nov 2005 16:19:56 +1100
dgarry <[email protected]> wrote:
> When it went down two weeks ago you had 3/4 riders abreast and a lot of
> jostling for position and riders coming up the inside of others and also
> people riding on triathlon bars in the bunch..
Seeing as I'm a very occasional commuting cyclist...
what's the problem with "riding on triathalon bars"? What are they, and
what are the consequences?
Zebee
dgarry <[email protected]> wrote:
> When it went down two weeks ago you had 3/4 riders abreast and a lot of
> jostling for position and riders coming up the inside of others and also
> people riding on triathlon bars in the bunch..
Seeing as I'm a very occasional commuting cyclist...
what's the problem with "riding on triathalon bars"? What are they, and
what are the consequences?
Zebee
E
Euan
Guest
>>>>> "Zebee" == Zebee Johnstone <[email protected]> writes:
Zebee> In aus.bicycle on Tue, 8 Nov 2005 16:19:56 +1100
Zebee> dgarry <[email protected]> wrote:
>> When it went down two weeks ago you had 3/4 riders abreast and a
>> lot of jostling for position and riders coming up the inside of
>> others and also people riding on triathlon bars in the bunch..
Zebee> Seeing as I'm a very occasional commuting cyclist...
Zebee> what's the problem with "riding on triathalon bars"? What
Zebee> are they, and what are the consequences?
In a nutshell steering while on aero bars is seriously compromised, you
just can't exert the same level of control on aeros as you can on
drops. In bunch riding or indeed urban riding this makes aero bars bad
news.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)
Zebee> In aus.bicycle on Tue, 8 Nov 2005 16:19:56 +1100
Zebee> dgarry <[email protected]> wrote:
>> When it went down two weeks ago you had 3/4 riders abreast and a
>> lot of jostling for position and riders coming up the inside of
>> others and also people riding on triathlon bars in the bunch..
Zebee> Seeing as I'm a very occasional commuting cyclist...
Zebee> what's the problem with "riding on triathalon bars"? What
Zebee> are they, and what are the consequences?
In a nutshell steering while on aero bars is seriously compromised, you
just can't exert the same level of control on aeros as you can on
drops. In bunch riding or indeed urban riding this makes aero bars bad
news.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)
B
Bleve
Guest
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on Tue, 8 Nov 2005 16:19:56 +1100
> dgarry <[email protected]> wrote:
> > When it went down two weeks ago you had 3/4 riders abreast and a lot of
> > jostling for position and riders coming up the inside of others and also
> > people riding on triathlon bars in the bunch..
>
> Seeing as I'm a very occasional commuting cyclist...
>
> what's the problem with "riding on triathalon bars"? What are they, and
> what are the consequences?
triathalon bars are more commonly known as aerobars. Unlike regular
road drop bars, they have a cradle for your elbows and extenstions
straight out to hold onto, the general idea is that they reduce frontal
area (emulating a ski-ing crouch, or the Obree Superman position).
That's all find and dandy in a timetrial, but in a bunch, they are
difficult to control, you can't get to your brakes etc. If someone's
using aerobars in a bunch, stay well clear of them. Firstly, they're
demonstrating that they have no idea about bunch riding (aerobars when
sitting in a draft have very little benefit) and secondly they're
significantly increasing your risk of accident. Thirdly, they're
probably triathaletes, and thus ... well ... stay clear ... Think of
them as like learner motorcyclists who have jumped straight on a
ZZR1200 or R1 after spending their 12 months restricted to a 250
refusing to ride a 250 because it's not fast enough.
>
> Zebee
> In aus.bicycle on Tue, 8 Nov 2005 16:19:56 +1100
> dgarry <[email protected]> wrote:
> > When it went down two weeks ago you had 3/4 riders abreast and a lot of
> > jostling for position and riders coming up the inside of others and also
> > people riding on triathlon bars in the bunch..
>
> Seeing as I'm a very occasional commuting cyclist...
>
> what's the problem with "riding on triathalon bars"? What are they, and
> what are the consequences?
triathalon bars are more commonly known as aerobars. Unlike regular
road drop bars, they have a cradle for your elbows and extenstions
straight out to hold onto, the general idea is that they reduce frontal
area (emulating a ski-ing crouch, or the Obree Superman position).
That's all find and dandy in a timetrial, but in a bunch, they are
difficult to control, you can't get to your brakes etc. If someone's
using aerobars in a bunch, stay well clear of them. Firstly, they're
demonstrating that they have no idea about bunch riding (aerobars when
sitting in a draft have very little benefit) and secondly they're
significantly increasing your risk of accident. Thirdly, they're
probably triathaletes, and thus ... well ... stay clear ... Think of
them as like learner motorcyclists who have jumped straight on a
ZZR1200 or R1 after spending their 12 months restricted to a 250
refusing to ride a 250 because it's not fast enough.
>
> Zebee
H
Humbug
Guest
On 08/11/05 at 22:16:04 Bleve somehow managed to type:
<snip>
> them as like learner motorcyclists who have jumped straight on a
> ZZR1200 or R1 after spending their 12 months restricted to a 250
> refusing to ride a 250 because it's not fast enough.
.... My first bike was (no 250 limit in those days) a Ducati 750SS
(which like a complete ******** I sold), second was a Kwaka mach III
and because of that particular assemblage of malevolent metal I gave up
motorbikes and swapped it for some (not enough) cash and the Malvern
Star I already had for a nice Cecil Walker...
--
Humbug
BE A LOOF! (There has been a recent population explosion of lerts.)
<snip>
> them as like learner motorcyclists who have jumped straight on a
> ZZR1200 or R1 after spending their 12 months restricted to a 250
> refusing to ride a 250 because it's not fast enough.
....
My first bike was (no 250 limit in those days) a Ducati 750SS(which like a complete ******** I sold), second was a Kwaka mach III
and because of that particular assemblage of malevolent metal I gave up
motorbikes and swapped it for some (not enough) cash and the Malvern
Star I already had for a nice Cecil Walker...
--
Humbug
BE A LOOF! (There has been a recent population explosion of lerts.)
T
TimC
Guest
On 2005-11-08, Bleve (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> probably triathaletes, and thus ... well ... stay clear ... Think of
> them as like learner motorcyclists who have jumped straight on a
> ZZR1200 or R1 after spending their 12 months restricted to a 250
> refusing to ride a 250 because it's not fast enough.
Heh. I was riding along my favourite road -- where Burwood Rd veers
right and becomes Camberwell. In my really uncool helmet mirror, I
saw a motorcyclist behind me, in the right lane -- for some reason, I
picked him as the kind of person who would be going off into the
sidestreet. So I position myself progressively moving further out to
the right -- no indicating right though, remember, because you are
legally not meant to in such a situation where the main road changes
direction (and I wasn't changing lanes).
Of course, what do I hear? The motorcyclist start accelarating just
as it really ought to become obvious to him that there isn't enough
room to take the side-street on my left, by going around my right --
remember there's a traffic island there? But he takes it anyway.
And it turns out to be a learner. Well, I hope he does learn, I
really hope for his sake. Read the traffic. Understand what is not
safe.
And if I am giving out this advice, it must be *really* obvious
--
TimC
"Some people think that noise abatement should be a higher priority for ATC. I
say safety is noise abatement. You have no idea how much noise it makes to have
a 737 fall out of the sky after an accident." -- anon. air traffic controller
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> probably triathaletes, and thus ... well ... stay clear ... Think of
> them as like learner motorcyclists who have jumped straight on a
> ZZR1200 or R1 after spending their 12 months restricted to a 250
> refusing to ride a 250 because it's not fast enough.
Heh. I was riding along my favourite road -- where Burwood Rd veers
right and becomes Camberwell. In my really uncool helmet mirror, I
saw a motorcyclist behind me, in the right lane -- for some reason, I
picked him as the kind of person who would be going off into the
sidestreet. So I position myself progressively moving further out to
the right -- no indicating right though, remember, because you are
legally not meant to in such a situation where the main road changes
direction (and I wasn't changing lanes).
Of course, what do I hear? The motorcyclist start accelarating just
as it really ought to become obvious to him that there isn't enough
room to take the side-street on my left, by going around my right --
remember there's a traffic island there? But he takes it anyway.
And it turns out to be a learner. Well, I hope he does learn, I
really hope for his sake. Read the traffic. Understand what is not
safe.
And if I am giving out this advice, it must be *really* obvious
--
TimC
"Some people think that noise abatement should be a higher priority for ATC. I
say safety is noise abatement. You have no idea how much noise it makes to have
a 737 fall out of the sky after an accident." -- anon. air traffic controller
B
Bleve
Guest
TimC wrote:
> On 2005-11-08, Bleve (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> > probably triathaletes, and thus ... well ... stay clear ... Think of
> > them as like learner motorcyclists who have jumped straight on a
> > ZZR1200 or R1 after spending their 12 months restricted to a 250
> > refusing to ride a 250 because it's not fast enough.
>
> Heh. I was riding along my favourite road -- where Burwood Rd veers
> right and becomes Camberwell.
I know that one, coming down the hill ... can be dangerous at times.
In my really uncool helmet mirror, I
> saw a motorcyclist behind me, in the right lane -- for some reason, I
> picked him as the kind of person who would be going off into the
> sidestreet. So I position myself progressively moving further out to
> the right -- no indicating right though, remember, because you are
> legally not meant to in such a situation where the main road changes
> direction (and I wasn't changing lanes).
As a suggestion, although it's not legal, when in that situation I
usually give a hand signal and try and make eye contact with any
cars/bikes (motor or push!) behind me to make sure they've seen me.
This in particular is worthwhile at the City Rd intersection where it
goes under Kings Way, but I imagine it would be worthwhile at any time
when you're following the road that veers right but has an option to
"turn" left (really, continue straight on).
Another place for that is Beach Rd, aproaching Fitzroy St from the
city, I usually give a hand signal there too... it's common for cars to
dive into the left "turn" lane without a care ...
> On 2005-11-08, Bleve (aka Bruce)
> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> > probably triathaletes, and thus ... well ... stay clear ... Think of
> > them as like learner motorcyclists who have jumped straight on a
> > ZZR1200 or R1 after spending their 12 months restricted to a 250
> > refusing to ride a 250 because it's not fast enough.
>
> Heh. I was riding along my favourite road -- where Burwood Rd veers
> right and becomes Camberwell.
I know that one, coming down the hill ... can be dangerous at times.
In my really uncool helmet mirror, I
> saw a motorcyclist behind me, in the right lane -- for some reason, I
> picked him as the kind of person who would be going off into the
> sidestreet. So I position myself progressively moving further out to
> the right -- no indicating right though, remember, because you are
> legally not meant to in such a situation where the main road changes
> direction (and I wasn't changing lanes).
As a suggestion, although it's not legal, when in that situation I
usually give a hand signal and try and make eye contact with any
cars/bikes (motor or push!) behind me to make sure they've seen me.
This in particular is worthwhile at the City Rd intersection where it
goes under Kings Way, but I imagine it would be worthwhile at any time
when you're following the road that veers right but has an option to
"turn" left (really, continue straight on).
Another place for that is Beach Rd, aproaching Fitzroy St from the
city, I usually give a hand signal there too... it's common for cars to
dive into the left "turn" lane without a care ...
M
Marty
Guest
Humbug wrote:
> On 08/11/05 at 22:16:04 Bleve somehow managed to type:
>
> <snip>
>
>>them as like learner motorcyclists who have jumped straight on a
>>ZZR1200 or R1 after spending their 12 months restricted to a 250
>>refusing to ride a 250 because it's not fast enough.
>
>
>
> ... My first bike was (no 250 limit in those days) a Ducati 750SS
> (which like a complete ******** I sold), second was a Kwaka mach III
> and because of that particular assemblage of malevolent metal I gave up
> motorbikes and swapped it for some (not enough) cash and the Malvern
> Star I already had for a nice Cecil Walker...
>
>
I did my K class license on a 650 Pantah Ducati. Prior to that I owned a
R75/7 BMW and a 250 trailbike. For a two year period I didn't own a
car. A 750SS would have to be THE bike.
Marty
> On 08/11/05 at 22:16:04 Bleve somehow managed to type:
>
> <snip>
>
>>them as like learner motorcyclists who have jumped straight on a
>>ZZR1200 or R1 after spending their 12 months restricted to a 250
>>refusing to ride a 250 because it's not fast enough.
>
>
>
> ...
My first bike was (no 250 limit in those days) a Ducati 750SS> (which like a complete ******** I sold), second was a Kwaka mach III
> and because of that particular assemblage of malevolent metal I gave up
> motorbikes and swapped it for some (not enough) cash and the Malvern
> Star I already had for a nice Cecil Walker...
>
>
I did my K class license on a 650 Pantah Ducati. Prior to that I owned a
R75/7 BMW and a 250 trailbike. For a two year period I didn't own a
car. A 750SS would have to be THE bike.
Marty
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