Merckx disappointed with Armstrong..........................................

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Heinz Getzler, Aug 30, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "onefred" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > Frankly, I think you hit the nail on the head, curt. Merckx is a
    > > self-centered arrogant
    > > > has-been that doesn't like the spot light being stolen from him.
    > >
    > > That's utter nonsense. Merckx is never arrogant, but also extremely courtuous and full of praise
    > > of all the "greats" who have succeeded him: Hinault, Fignon, Indurain, and also Armstrong.
    > > Merckx ' place in cycling history is secure, and he has nothing to fear. Certainly not
    > > Armstrong,
    a
    > > great rider but not quite on the same level as his.
    > >
    > > > If he wants to comment on Lance, then he should say a few positive words or nothing at all
    > > because Lance has done
    > > > nothing wrong with his career.
    > >
    > > As I said, Merckx has expressed his admiration for Armstrong many many times. However, Merckx is
    > > - rightly - concerned of the consequences of
    > the
    > > way Armstrong's is building his career. The truth is that many other
    races
    > > are getting more and more into trouble. For instance, the Société du
    Tour
    > de
    > > France is organizing 20 races, but only the Tour and Paris-Roubaix are making money. All the
    > > others, even Liège-Bastogne-Liège and Paris-Tours,
    > are
    > > showing a deficit. Of course, this rather dangerous situation isn't
    helped
    > > much when the best rider of these years is deciding to focus his whole season on the Tour. It
    > > might be good for Amstrong, but it certainly
    isn't
    > > good for bicycle racing and Merckx should certainly be allowed to
    express
    > > his concern.
    >
    >
    > That has more to do with the press than any one rider. Lemond, Indurain, Riis and Armstrong have
    > focused their energies on the TdF because it is
    the
    > race which garners the most press.
    >
    > I agree, it's not healthy for the sport overall, but unless the UCI can figure out a way to change
    > the press situation, that's the way it's going
    to
    > be. The fact that the TdF coincides with the European summer holidays is a tidal force not easily
    > overcome by artifice.
    >
    >

    I think Eddy correctly can see that only the biggest stars carry enough influence to have any
    positive effect on this trend and he was just as critical of Lemond and Indurain during each of
    their reigns. Riis certainly tried to win other races and it may have cost him as least one Tour,
    but that is beside the point.
     


  2. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "onefred" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > Merckx can express his concern over this unfortunate situation for the
    sport, but it is
    > NOT Lance's fault. The fault lies elsewhere. Merckx is out of line for
    criticizing
    > Lance's career decisions, which is none of his business, frankly. Lance
    does his job to
    > make money and seems to know exactly what he's doing.
    >
    > Dave

    You really do not get it, do you? What makes Lance (or anyone) so special that he should be
    protected from reasonable criticism? In addition, these remarks were quoted from Eddy's paid
    commentary on the race. It IS literally his business because it is HIS job too.
     
  3. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    Sorry, that was meant for "Scott Downie" and not you Greg.
     
  4. "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > I think Eddy correctly can see that only the biggest stars carry enough influence to have any
    > positive effect on this trend and he was just as critical of Lemond and Indurain during each of
    > their reigns. Riis
    certainly
    > tried to win other races and it may have cost him as least one Tour, but that is beside the point.

    Read the whole interview. Eddy wishes LA would race the whole year, but understands why he doesn't.
     
  5. "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "onefred" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > > Merckx can express his concern over this unfortunate situation for the
    > sport, but it is
    > > NOT Lance's fault. The fault lies elsewhere. Merckx is out of line for
    > criticizing
    > > Lance's career decisions, which is none of his business, frankly. Lance
    > does his job to
    > > make money and seems to know exactly what he's doing.
    > >
    > > Dave
    >
    > You really do not get it, do you? What makes Lance (or anyone) so special that he should be
    > protected from reasonable criticism? In addition, these remarks were quoted from Eddy's paid
    > commentary on the race. It IS
    literally
    > his business because it is HIS job too.

    You guys are a bunch of Dumbasses.

    Who coined the acroynym TIOOYK (There is only one, you know)?

    with regards to the Tour de France.

    Answer: Eddy Merckx
     
  6. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    Benjo, if you want bicycle racing to make money then get Soccer off of TV. Stadium sports are so
    much cheaper and easier to cover that they will hog all of the advertising money because promoters
    make money from all angles.

    "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "onefred" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Frankly, I think you hit the nail on the head, curt. Merckx is a
    > self-centered arrogant
    > > has-been that doesn't like the spot light being stolen from him.
    >
    > That's utter nonsense. Merckx is never arrogant, but also extremely courtuous and full of praise
    > of all the "greats" who have succeeded
    him:
    > Hinault, Fignon, Indurain, and also Armstrong. Merckx ' place in
    cycling
    > history is secure, and he has nothing to fear. Certainly not
    Armstrong, a
    > great rider but not quite on the same level as his.
    >
    > > If he wants to comment on Lance, then he should say a few positive words or nothing at
    all
    > because Lance has done
    > > nothing wrong with his career.
    >
    > As I said, Merckx has expressed his admiration for Armstrong many
    many
    > times. However, Merckx is - rightly - concerned of the consequences
    of the
    > way Armstrong's is building his career. The truth is that many other
    races
    > are getting more and more into trouble. For instance, the Société du
    Tour de
    > France is organizing 20 races, but only the Tour and Paris-Roubaix
    are
    > making money. All the others, even Liège-Bastogne-Liège and
    Paris-Tours, are
    > showing a deficit. Of course, this rather dangerous situation isn't
    helped
    > much when the best rider of these years is deciding to focus his
    whole
    > season on the Tour. It might be good for Amstrong, but it certainly
    isn't
    > good for bicycle racing and Merckx should certainly be allowed to
    express
    > his concern.
    >
    >
    > Benjo Maso
     
  7. Benjo Maso

    Benjo Maso Guest

    "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Benjo, if you want bicycle racing to make money then get Soccer off of TV. Stadium sports are so
    > much cheaper and easier to cover that they will hog all of the advertising money because promoters
    > make money from all angles.

    Great idea, but the last time french televsion didn't cover soccer matches for a while, it wasn't
    bicycle racing which took advantage of it, but rugby ...

    Benjo Maso
     
  8. Benjo Maso

    Benjo Maso Guest

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "onefred" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >
    > > > Merckx can express his concern over this unfortunate situation for the
    > > sport, but it is
    > > > NOT Lance's fault. The fault lies elsewhere. Merckx is out of line
    for
    > > criticizing
    > > > Lance's career decisions, which is none of his business, frankly.
    Lance
    > > does his job to
    > > > make money and seems to know exactly what he's doing.
    > > >
    > > > Dave
    > >
    > > You really do not get it, do you? What makes Lance (or anyone) so
    special
    > > that he should be protected from reasonable criticism? In addition,
    these
    > > remarks were quoted from Eddy's paid commentary on the race. It IS
    > literally
    > > his business because it is HIS job too.
    >
    >
    >
    > You guys are a bunch of Dumbasses.
    >
    >
    > Who coined the acroynym TIOOYK (There is only one, you know)?
    >
    >
    > with regards to the Tour de France.
    >
    >
    >
    > Answer: Eddy Merckx

    No, you're quite wrong. For Merckx it was the Giro which came first. The proof? He participated only
    7 times to the Tour, but 8 times to the Giro. And not to train, but to win (which usually he did).

    Benjo Maso
     
  9. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > You guys are a bunch of Dumbasses.
    >
    >
    > yada yada

    Your articles are taking on the attributes of background static. I know I am not compelled to read
    them, but I thought you might want to know.
     
  10. "B. Lafferty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Eddy Merckx has a lot of damn nerve. Lance is racing the San Francisco race. Eddy is just upset
    > that Lance isn't interested in his two up time trial. And lets hope the UCI makes SF a World Cup
    > event--it's short enough.
    >
    No Eddy has already said that GP Eddy Merckx is a smaller TT than GP des Nations. It would be nice
    if the SF GP were to become a UCI World Cup event, but I don't think it's difficult enough and does
    not have the historical significance to beome one yet. Criteriums are not usually World cup events
    to begin with. I think that the SF GP could become a World cup event if it were to become a stage
    race. Perhaps a TT to signal hill that was in the Coors Classic would add a lot to the race.

    > "Richard Adams" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Heinz Getzler wrote:
    > > > (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/aug03/aug31news)
    > > >
    > > > ""At the time, I reacted as a former rider," Merckx explained in an interview with La Dernière
    > > > Heure."
    > > >
    > > > "He maintains, however, that Armstrong's performance in Liège was sub-par. "Tactically, Lance
    > > > rode poorly. When your name is Armstrong and you're riding to win Liège-Bastogne-Liège, you
    > > > should ride differently."
    > >
    > > Well, like he said at an Amstel Gold (though may have not meant it) the race doesn't matter to
    > > him. It's his early season training and seeing who the other riders are and where he stands in
    > > respect to them. He likes to play his cards close. It's worked so far.
    > >
    > > > "He also remains somewhat disappointed with the latest five-Tour winner's decision not to
    > > > contest the World Championships, even on North American soil. "It's too bad that a rider with
    > > > Armstrong's talent doesn't participate in the biggest races," Merckx said. "When you're a
    > > > champion like him, you have to take the chance of entering races where you can be beaten."""
    > >
    > > I think Lance is a bit like the groundhog. If he sees a shadow there will be less racing later
    > > in the season, or something like that. As admirable as winning 5 tours is, he's made it such a
    > > science and a goal that there's little else to cheer about.
    > >
    > > > Eddy is right when he says that Lance is too worried about being beaten. It's really beyond me
    > > > why Lance has chosen to forgo the fall classics. on the otherhand, unlike some other american
    > > > tdf winner one certainly has to respect Lance's humility when he says that he is not as great
    > > > as Merckx or Hinault.
    > >
    > > An this is probably why he focuses on such a narrow goal.
     
  11. "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > > You guys are a bunch of Dumbasses.
    > >
    > >
    > > yada yada
    >
    > Your articles are taking on the attributes of background static. I know I
    am
    > not compelled to read them, but I thought you might want to know.

    Dumbass -

    please use your killfile.
     
  12. "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > >
    > > You guys are a bunch of Dumbasses.
    > >
    > >
    > > Who coined the acroynym TIOOYK (There is only one, you know)?
    > >
    > >
    > > with regards to the Tour de France.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Answer: Eddy Merckx
    >
    >
    >
    > No, you're quite wrong. For Merckx it was the Giro which came first. The proof? He participated
    > only 7 times to the Tour, but 8 times to the Giro. And not to train, but to win (which usually
    > he did).

    (Benjo, I hate to call you a Dumbass, but in this instance it applies)

    Dumbass -

    Agree with it or not, Eddy is the originator of TIOOYK.
     
  13. Nev Shea

    Nev Shea Guest

    "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > No, you're quite wrong. For Merckx it was the Giro which came first. The proof? He participated
    > only 7 times to the Tour, but 8 times to the Giro. And not to train, but to win (which usually
    > he did).

    I recall reading somewhere that Merckx missed 1 Giro because the organizers paid him not to show up
    hoping that would improve the odds of an Italian winning. Or am I all mixed up?

    NS
     
  14. "Nev Shea" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
    >
    >
    > > No, you're quite wrong. For Merckx it was the Giro which came first. The proof? He participated
    > > only 7 times to the Tour, but 8 times to the Giro. And not to train, but to win (which usually
    > > he did).
    >
    >
    > I recall reading somewhere that Merckx missed 1 Giro because the
    organizers
    > paid him not to show up hoping that would improve the odds of an Italian winning. Or am I all
    > mixed up?

    Wasn't that Binda that they paid? So there would be more suspense.
     
  15. Benjo Maso

    Benjo Maso Guest

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > >
    > > > You guys are a bunch of Dumbasses.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Who coined the acroynym TIOOYK (There is only one, you know)?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > with regards to the Tour de France.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Answer: Eddy Merckx
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > No, you're quite wrong. For Merckx it was the Giro which came first. The proof? He participated
    > > only 7 times to the Tour, but 8 times to the
    Giro.
    > > And not to train, but to win (which usually he did).
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > (Benjo, I hate to call you a Dumbass, but in this instance it applies)
    >
    >
    > Dumbass -
    >
    >
    > Agree with it or not, Eddy is the originator of TIOOYK.
    >
    >

    Call me whatever you like. Of course it isn't true that the Giro was more important to Merckx than
    the Tour (although it was for his sponsors). But nevertheless, there is still more truth in my
    statement.than in yours.

    Benjo Maso
     
  16. "onefred" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Frankly, I think you hit the nail on the head, curt. Merckx is a self-centered arrogant has-been
    > that doesn't like the spot light being stolen from him. If he wants to comment on Lance, then he
    > should say a few positive words or nothing at all because Lance has done nothing wrong with his
    > career. It's not because other cyclists approach their career differently than Merckx that they
    > must be marked invalid. Lance is a fine professional cyclist. I can't believe anyone could
    > complain about his career.
    >
    > Look at Sampras. He only focused on the Majors, won a bunch of them, and is now being referred to
    > as the greatest tennis player ever! Lance knows what he is doing.
    >
    > Dave

    Yes, but Sampras competed in all of the Grand Slam events, event though Wimbledon remains
    the most prestigeous. For your comparison to be valid, Sampras would have had to have
    trained solely to obtain victory at Wimbledon, and eschewed even playing in the other Grand
    Slam events.

    In any case, Sampras is only being referred to as the greatest tennis player ever because his
    recent retirement has stirred some people to wax at length with praise. Remember that Rod Laver
    won all 4 Grand Slam Tennis events for 2 consecutive years. Borg had to make due with an old
    wooden frame racket. Then there is Tilden and Budge....
     
  17. "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >
    >
    > Call me whatever you like. Of course it isn't true that the Giro was more important to Merckx than
    > the Tour (although it was for his sponsors). But nevertheless, there is still more truth in my
    > statement.than in yours.

    How is the contention that Merckx coined TIIOYK in any way untrue?
     
  18. Benjo Maso

    Benjo Maso Guest

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > >
    > > Call me whatever you like. Of course it isn't true that the Giro was
    more
    > > important to Merckx than the Tour (although it was for his sponsors).
    But
    > > nevertheless, there is still more truth in my statement.than in yours.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > How is the contention that Merckx coined TIIOYK in any way untrue?

    Of course, the burden of proof that Merckx "coined TIIOYK'' is yours, but i'll give you some
    indications why it is not true. Contrary to, for instance, Lance Armstrong, Merckx was always
    present at important races. Not because they were fitting it his trainings schedule, but to win.
    Merckx's career consisted of twelve complete seasons (1966-1977). During this periode he
    participated 7 times to the Tour; 8 times to the Giro; 10 times to Milan-San Remo; 11 times to the
    Tour de Flandres; 12 times to Paris-Roubaix; 4 times to Paris-Bruxelles (it was only organized 6
    times); 8 times to the Flèche Wallone; 11 times to Liège-Bastogne-Liège; 6 times to Paris-Tours; 9
    times to the Tour of Lombardy and 12 times tot the world championships. That means that he
    participated to 98 of the 126 most important races during his career (and won 36 of them). It's true
    that the Tour was the most important race of the season in Merckx's time, so it was in 1903 on, so
    you can't blame Merckx for it (he was born in 1945).

    Benjo Maso
     
  19. "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > Call me whatever you like. Of course it isn't true that the Giro was
    > more
    > > > important to Merckx than the Tour (although it was for his sponsors).
    > But
    > > > nevertheless, there is still more truth in my statement.than in yours.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > How is the contention that Merckx coined TIIOYK in any way untrue?
    >
    > Of course, the burden of proof that Merckx "coined TIIOYK'' is yours, but i'll give you some
    > indications why it is not true. Contrary to, for instance, Lance Armstrong, Merckx was always
    > present at important races. Not because they were fitting it his trainings schedule, but to win.
    > Merckx's career consisted of twelve complete seasons (1966-1977). During this periode he
    > participated 7 times to the Tour; 8 times to the Giro; 10 times to Milan-San Remo; 11 times to the
    > Tour de Flandres; 12 times to Paris-Roubaix; 4 times to Paris-Bruxelles (it was
    only
    > organized 6 times); 8 times to the Flèche Wallone; 11 times to Liège-Bastogne-Liège; 6 times to
    > Paris-Tours; 9 times to the Tour of Lombardy and 12 times tot the world championships. That means
    > that he participated to 98 of the 126 most important races during his career (and won 36 of them).
    > It's true that the Tour was the most important race of the season in Merckx's time, so it was in
    > 1903 on, so you can't blame Merckx for it (he was born in 1945).

    I'm not blaming Merckx.

    The TIIOYK thing is something that has always been part of rbr legend. I searched for it on google,
    but couldn't find anything save for Ligget referring to it and also Ilan Vardi.

    It's on the FAQ, but not attributed to Merckx. One of the old-timers, if they were still around,
    could probably tell us how it got attributed to him.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...