Merckx lambasts Armstrong

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Tispectrum, Apr 29, 2003.

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  1. Tispectrum

    Tispectrum Guest

    Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse

    The warm ties between Belgian cycling legend Eddy Merckx and Lance Armstrong look to have coolled
    severely following Sunday's Liege-Bastogne-Liege race, the fifth leg of the World Cup. And Merckx,
    who won five Tour titles in a career that included three world titles and seven victories in the
    Milan-SanRemo, feels Armstrong - following his 20th place in a race he had claimed he would win -
    has "overestimated" himself. "He was supposed to sail to victory. To have listened to him, it was a
    formality and his rivals never even had a look in," Merckx, who is normally a close confidante of
    Armstrong's, told Tuesday's L'Equipe newspaper. "The fact is, he failed. I think he overestimated
    himself. Armstrong was not as strong as he thought. In any case, he didn't impress me." Merckx's
    outburst was given momentum by an incident which occured in the final stages of the one-day classic
    when Armstrong sailed past Merckx's son Axel, who rides for the Belgian Lotto team, on the Tilff
    climb. Merckx junior had made a futile breakaway attempt, and Armstrong's apparent acceleration as
    he rode past the 30-year-old rider was seen as a sign of disrespect. For Merckx, who was watching as
    a television consultant, the gesture - similar to the one Armstrong dealt out to rival Jan Ullrich
    during the climb to Alpe d'Huez in the 2001 Tour - was enough to alter his opinion on the man to
    whom he has been a close friend since the American contracted cancer in 1996. Merckx added:
    "Armstrong did the same thing to Axel during the Sydney Olympic Games. He came up behind him with
    200 metres to go to finally finish fourth. "I can't understand his logic. By leaving Axel in his
    trail on Sunday, he effectively ended his own hopes of winning. Armstrong rode badly." Armstrong,
    having twice finished runner-up, looked en route to winning his first Liege-Bastogne-Liege - the
    oldest of the one-day classics having first been held in 1892 - after chasing down Axel Merckx in
    the final 20 kilometres. However the 31-year-old American was engulfed in the chasing peloton in the
    last five kilometres - and to make matters worse he was outdone by former team-mate Tyler Hamilton
    (CSC), who became the first American to win the "doyenne". Armstrong's failure to win the race -
    having trained specifically for the victory all week - will be seen by some as a blow to his Tour
    preparations in July. However, despite Merckx's opinion that Armstrong has lost some of his
    humility, the 57-year-old Belgian feels his bid to equal Spaniard Miguel Indurain's five-in-a-row in
    July has not been compromised. "I think he (Armstrong) is surrounded by people who are always
    telling him how great he is that he believes he can say and do everything. "And, while he's American
    and it's in his mentality to believe all that, that's more dangerous than he thinks. "As for the
    Tour, that's something else. But his team might cause him a few problems. (Viatcheslav) Ekimov (37
    years old) is not getting any younger and (George) Hincapie is having trouble getting back from his
    injuries. "That said, Armstrong is still Armstrong. When it comes to the Tour, he's got the
    advantage."

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  2. Jamce1

    Jamce1 Guest

    pretty much what i was thinking, especially after his choosing not to contest the end at Amstel.
    but, he has always rode arrogantly, and that is his style. he thought he could ride richard off
    his wheel in LBL 96 and boogard in amstel. i dont think he is the cagiest rider out there by a
    long shot.

    i also think his "targeted" training techniques and his unwillingness to contest other major races
    in the world besides the TDF is beginning to get on some nerves. i dont buy the inability to peak
    but only one time a year argument. almost all the major stage racers in europe contest 2 of the big
    3, or at least make a showing in one to train for the other.

    he will be looked at thru history as a great TDF champion who has a tremendous story, but he will be
    tarnished by the above, IMO.

    that being said, if is wasnt for CSC hammering and if LBL ended on a 20km climb, then we wouldnt be
    having this discussion......armstrong would have never come back.

    chris

    >Subject: Merckx lambasts Armstrong From: "tispectrum" [email protected] Date: 4/29/03 9:12 AM
    >Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
    >
    >Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse
    >
    >The warm ties between Belgian cycling legend Eddy Merckx and Lance Armstrong look to have coolled
    >severely following Sunday's Liege-Bastogne-Liege race, the fifth leg of the World Cup. And Merckx,
    >who won five Tour titles in a career that included three world titles and seven victories in the
    >Milan-SanRemo, feels Armstrong - following his 20th place in a race he had claimed he would win -
    >has "overestimated" himself. "He was supposed to sail to victory. To have listened to him, it was a
    >formality and his rivals never even had a look in," Merckx, who is normally a close confidante of
    >Armstrong's, told Tuesday's L'Equipe newspaper. "The fact is, he failed. I think he overestimated
    >himself. Armstrong was not as strong as he thought. In any case, he didn't impress me." Merckx's
    >outburst was given momentum by an incident which occured in the final stages of the one-day classic
    >when Armstrong sailed past Merckx's son Axel, who rides for the Belgian Lotto team, on the Tilff
    >climb. Merckx junior had made a futile breakaway attempt, and Armstrong's apparent acceleration as
    >he rode past the 30-year-old rider was seen as a sign of disrespect. For Merckx, who was watching
    >as a television consultant, the gesture - similar to the one Armstrong dealt out to rival Jan
    >Ullrich during the climb to Alpe d'Huez in the 2001 Tour - was enough to alter his opinion on the
    >man to whom he has been a close friend since the American contracted cancer in 1996. Merckx added:
    >"Armstrong did the same thing to Axel during the Sydney Olympic Games. He came up behind him with
    >200 metres to go to finally finish fourth. "I can't understand his logic. By leaving Axel in his
    >trail on Sunday, he effectively ended his own hopes of winning. Armstrong rode badly." Armstrong,
    >having twice finished runner-up, looked en route to winning his first Liege-Bastogne-Liege - the
    >oldest of the one-day classics having first been held in 1892 - after chasing down Axel Merckx in
    >the final 20 kilometres. However the 31-year-old American was engulfed in the chasing peloton in
    >the last five kilometres - and to make matters worse he was outdone by former team-mate Tyler
    >Hamilton (CSC), who became the first American to win the "doyenne". Armstrong's failure to win the
    >race - having trained specifically for the victory all week - will be seen by some as a blow to his
    >Tour preparations in July. However, despite Merckx's opinion that Armstrong has lost some of his
    >humility, the 57-year-old Belgian feels his bid to equal Spaniard Miguel Indurain's five-in-a-row
    >in July has not been compromised. "I think he (Armstrong) is surrounded by people who are always
    >telling him how great he is that he believes he can say and do everything. "And, while he's
    >American and it's in his mentality to believe all that, that's more dangerous than he thinks. "As
    >for the Tour, that's something else. But his team might cause him a few problems. (Viatcheslav)
    >Ekimov (37 years old) is not getting any younger and (George) Hincapie is having trouble getting
    >back from his injuries. "That said, Armstrong is still Armstrong. When it comes to the Tour, he's
    >got the advantage."
    >
    >
    >
    >
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    > -----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =-----
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    >
    >
     
  3. Keith

    Keith Guest

    On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:58:59 GMT, "Tom Schulenburg" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"tispectrum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >
    >> Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse
    >
    >Racing today has changed a lot since Eddy's time. Just out of curiosity, When was the last time
    >someone won a classic and the TdF in the same year?

    Riis 1997, actually he was the previous year tour winner.

    >I can see Lance's point about not racing for second. Why risk injury with nothing on the line? Most
    >of the riders he was contending with were fighting for worldcup points, sponsor recognition,
    >contracts for next year, etc. Lance is not worried about any of that. The win means something,
    >nothing else matters.
    >
    >Unless Lance thought he couldn't beat Axel in a sprint, he might have had a better chance if they
    >worked together - There was no reason for Lance to "diss" him.
    >
    >-T
    >
    >

    ___________________
    Keith www.gpspassion.com All things GPS and PocketPC
     
  4. Keith

    Keith Guest

    >that being said, if is wasnt for CSC hammering and if LBL ended on a 20km climb, then we wouldnt be
    >having this discussion......armstrong

    you mean Hamilton, right?

    >would have never come back.

    ___________________
    Keith www.gpspassion.com All things GPS and PocketPC
     
  5. Bart

    Bart Guest

    There was no LOOK that i saw this time. This is all balloney.

    But the Eddy sour grapes in the live report are true. And pitiful for a legend like him.
     
  6. "Keith" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 16:58:59 GMT, "Tom Schulenburg" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"tispectrum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >> Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse
    > >
    > >Racing today has changed a lot since Eddy's time. Just out of curiosity, When was the last time
    > >someone won a classic and the TdF in the same
    year?
    >
    > Riis 1997, actually he was the previous year tour winner.
    >

    Doesn't count. A quick check goes back to '81 when Hinault won Amstel and Roubaix. Like I said,
    things have changed in the last 20 years.

    -T
     
  7. "Bart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > There was no LOOK that i saw this time. This is all balloney.
    >
    > But the Eddy sour grapes in the live report are true. And pitiful for a legend like him.

    No kidding.

    Has any single rider humiliated more of his contemporaries with on-the-bike displays of superiority
    than Eddy Merckx? He is The King in that regard and there is no close second.
     
  8. I think a lot of the tone read into this is due to translation to English. I don't think Lance meant
    to diss Axel nor do I think Eddy meant to diss Lance. I think he probably just meant to say that
    Lance wasn't as strong as many thought he was.

    Mark VandenBerghe

    "tispectrum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse
    >
    > The warm ties between Belgian cycling legend Eddy Merckx and Lance
    Armstrong
    > look to have coolled severely following Sunday's Liege-Bastogne-Liege
    race,
    > the fifth leg of the World Cup. And Merckx, who won five Tour titles in a career that included
    > three world titles and seven victories in the Milan-SanRemo, feels Armstrong -
    following
    > his 20th place in a race he had claimed he would win - has "overestimated" himself. "He was
    > supposed to sail to victory. To have listened to him, it was a formality and his rivals never even
    > had a look in," Merckx, who is
    normally
    > a close confidante of Armstrong's, told Tuesday's L'Equipe newspaper. "The fact is, he failed. I
    > think he overestimated himself. Armstrong was
    not
    > as strong as he thought. In any case, he didn't impress me." Merckx's outburst was given momentum
    > by an incident which occured in the final stages of the one-day classic when Armstrong sailed past
    > Merckx's
    son
    > Axel, who rides for the Belgian Lotto team, on the Tilff climb. Merckx junior had made a futile
    > breakaway attempt, and Armstrong's
    apparent
    > acceleration as he rode past the 30-year-old rider was seen as a sign of disrespect. For Merckx,
    > who was watching as a television consultant, the gesture - similar to the one Armstrong dealt out
    > to rival Jan Ullrich during the
    climb
    > to Alpe d'Huez in the 2001 Tour - was enough to alter his opinion on the
    man
    > to whom he has been a close friend since the American contracted cancer in 1996. Merckx added:
    > "Armstrong did the same thing to Axel during the Sydney Olympic Games. He came up behind him with
    > 200 metres to go to finally
    finish
    > fourth. "I can't understand his logic. By leaving Axel in his trail on Sunday, he effectively
    > ended his own hopes of winning. Armstrong rode badly." Armstrong, having twice finished
    > runner-up, looked en route to winning his first Liege-Bastogne-Liege - the oldest of the one-day
    > classics having
    first
    > been held in 1892 - after chasing down Axel Merckx in the final 20 kilometres. However the
    > 31-year-old American was engulfed in the chasing peloton in
    the
    > last five kilometres - and to make matters worse he was outdone by former team-mate Tyler Hamilton
    > (CSC), who became the first American to win the "doyenne". Armstrong's failure to win the race -
    > having trained specifically for the victory all week - will be seen by some as a blow to his Tour
    > preparations in July. However, despite Merckx's opinion that Armstrong has lost some of his
    > humility, the 57-year-old Belgian feels his bid to equal Spaniard Miguel Indurain's five-in-a-row
    > in July has not been compromised. "I think he (Armstrong) is surrounded by people who are always
    > telling him how great he is that he believes he can say and do everything. "And, while he's
    > American and it's in his mentality to believe all that, that's more dangerous than he thinks. "As
    > for the Tour, that's something else. But his team might cause him a
    few
    > problems. (Viatcheslav) Ekimov (37 years old) is not getting any younger
    and
    > (George) Hincapie is having trouble getting back from his injuries. "That said, Armstrong is still
    > Armstrong. When it comes to the Tour, he's got the advantage."
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > -----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News
    ==----------
    > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
    > -----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers
    =-----
     
  9. Bikerecker

    Bikerecker Guest

    Bart wrote:
    >But the Eddy sour grapes in the live report are true. And pitiful for a legend like him.
    >
    Well, Bruyneel himself said that Lance's breakaway mates weren't helping. He should have waited to
    loose his final salvo, or combined with someone more willing/able to stay away. A tactical error on
    his part, probably fuelled by his own self-perception of invulnerability, at least to some extent.
    If he had allowed Axel to latch on and recover they might have held off the CSC lead chase and Lance
    could have dancd up the final climb alone. Merckx' comments are also colored by the fact that he
    perceives that Lance has insuled his own son. Who wouldn't "overreact"? I believe that whatever
    repoir existed between Lance and Eddy has been damaged if not destroyed.

    Greg
     
  10. [email protected] (Jamce1) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > pretty much what i was thinking, especially after his choosing not to contest the end at Amstel.
    > but, he has always rode arrogantly, and that is his style. he thought he could ride richard off
    > his wheel in LBL 96 and boogard in amstel. i dont think he is the cagiest rider out there by a
    > long shot.
    >
    > i also think his "targeted" training techniques and his unwillingness to contest other major races
    > in the world besides the TDF is beginning to get on some nerves. i dont buy the inability to peak
    > but only one time a year argument. almost all the major stage racers in europe contest 2 of the
    > big 3, or at least make a showing in one to train for the other.
    >
    > he will be looked at thru history as a great TDF champion who has a tremendous story, but he will
    > be tarnished by the above, IMO.
    Lance has not tarnished his career, but he is not riding to his potential. But it's probably a rush
    to judge Armstrong on a single race. I can sort of understand why Lance does want to race all the
    time. There is might be a plausible explanation for avoiding the Giro. On the otherhand Lance simply
    has no excuse for abandoning the fall season. I do respect Lance for having the humility to admit
    that he is not as great as Eddy Hinault unlike Lemond. There is however the principle of "leadership
    by example" and Lance has largely shown that.
    >
    > that being said, if is wasnt for CSC hammering and if LBL ended on a 20km climb, then we wouldnt
    > be having this discussion......armstrong would have never come back.
    >
    > chris
    >
    > >Subject: Merckx lambasts Armstrong From: "tispectrum" [email protected] Date: 4/29/03 9:12
    > >AM Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: <[email protected]>
    > >
    > >Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse
    > >
    > >The warm ties between Belgian cycling legend Eddy Merckx and Lance Armstrong look to have coolled
    > >severely following Sunday's Liege-Bastogne-Liege race, the fifth leg of the World Cup. And
    > >Merckx, who won five Tour titles in a career that included three world titles and seven victories
    > >in the Milan-SanRemo, feels Armstrong - following his 20th place in a race he had claimed he
    > >would win - has "overestimated" himself. "He was supposed to sail to victory. To have listened to
    > >him, it was a formality and his rivals never even had a look in," Merckx, who is normally a close
    > >confidante of Armstrong's, told Tuesday's L'Equipe newspaper. "The fact is, he failed. I think he
    > >overestimated himself. Armstrong was not as strong as he thought. In any case, he didn't impress
    > >me." Merckx's outburst was given momentum by an incident which occured in the final stages of the
    > >one-day classic when Armstrong sailed past Merckx's son Axel, who rides for the Belgian Lotto
    > >team, on the Tilff climb. Merckx junior had made a futile breakaway attempt, and Armstrong's
    > >apparent acceleration as he rode past the 30-year-old rider was seen as a sign of disrespect. For
    > >Merckx, who was watching as a television consultant, the gesture - similar to the one Armstrong
    > >dealt out to rival Jan Ullrich during the climb to Alpe d'Huez in the 2001 Tour - was enough to
    > >alter his opinion on the man to whom he has been a close friend since the American contracted
    > >cancer in 1996. Merckx added: "Armstrong did the same thing to Axel during the Sydney Olympic
    > >Games. He came up behind him with 200 metres to go to finally finish fourth. "I can't understand
    > >his logic. By leaving Axel in his trail on Sunday, he effectively ended his own hopes of winning.
    > >Armstrong rode badly." Armstrong, having twice finished runner-up, looked en route to winning his
    > >first Liege-Bastogne-Liege - the oldest of the one-day classics having first been held in 1892 -
    > >after chasing down Axel Merckx in the final 20 kilometres. However the 31-year-old American was
    > >engulfed in the chasing peloton in the last five kilometres - and to make matters worse he was
    > >outdone by former team-mate Tyler Hamilton (CSC), who became the first American to win the
    > >"doyenne". Armstrong's failure to win the race - having trained specifically for the victory all
    > >week - will be seen by some as a blow to his Tour preparations in July. However, despite Merckx's
    > >opinion that Armstrong has lost some of his humility, the 57-year-old Belgian feels his bid to
    > >equal Spaniard Miguel Indurain's five-in-a-row in July has not been compromised. "I think he
    > >(Armstrong) is surrounded by people who are always telling him how great he is that he believes
    > >he can say and do everything. "And, while he's American and it's in his mentality to believe all
    > >that, that's more dangerous than he thinks. "As for the Tour, that's something else. But his team
    > >might cause him a few problems. (Viatcheslav) Ekimov (37 years old) is not getting any younger
    > >and (George) Hincapie is having trouble getting back from his injuries. "That said, Armstrong is
    > >still Armstrong. When it comes to the Tour, he's got the advantage."
    > >
    I think Merckx was criticising Armstrong for treating a World Cup event as a mere training race.

    > >
    > >
    > > -----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
    > > http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
    > > -----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =-----
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
     
  11. "Tom Schulenburg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > "tispectrum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse
    >
    > Racing today has changed a lot since Eddy's time.
    The excuse that "racing has changed" is used quite often when comparing Eddy to Armstrong. I agree
    that racing has gotten considerably harder and there is a need to pick and choose races. But a more
    important question to ask is it good for the sport of cycling.................???

    Just out of curiosity,
    > When was the last time someone won a classic and the TdF in the same year? I can see Lance's point
    > about not racing for second. Why risk injury with nothing on the line? Most of the riders he was
    > contending with were fighting for worldcup points, sponsor recognition, contracts for next year,
    > etc. Lance is not worried about any of that. The win means something, nothing else matters.
    >
    > Unless Lance thought he couldn't beat Axel in a sprint, he might have had a better chance if they
    > worked together - There was no reason for Lance to "diss" him.
    >
    > -T
     
  12. Tony

    Tony Guest

    who is Eddy Hinault??

    "Heinz Getzler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Tom Schulenburg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > "tispectrum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > > Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse
    > >
    > > Racing today has changed a lot since Eddy's time.
    > The excuse that "racing has changed" is used quite often when comparing Eddy to Armstrong. I agree
    > that racing has gotten considerably harder and there is a need to pick and choose races. But a
    > more important question to ask is it good for the sport of cycling.................???
    >
    >
    > Just out of curiosity,
    > > When was the last time someone won a classic and the TdF in the same
    year?
    > > I can see Lance's point about not racing for second. Why risk injury
    with
    > > nothing on the line? Most of the riders he was contending with were
    fighting
    > > for worldcup points, sponsor recognition, contracts for next year, etc. Lance is not worried
    > > about any of that. The win means something, nothing else matters.
    > >
    > > Unless Lance thought he couldn't beat Axel in a sprint, he might have
    had a
    > > better chance if they worked together - There was no reason for Lance to "diss" him.
    > >
    > > -T
     
  13. "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >From: "Kurgan Gringioni" [email protected]
    >
    > >Has any single rider humiliated more of his contemporaries with
    on-the-bike
    > >displays of superiority than Eddy Merckx? He is The King in that regard
    and
    > >there is no close second.
    >
    > And the problem with that is?

    There isn't a problem with that, however, Eddy needs to look in the mirror before making remarks
    like the ones we are discussing in this thread. Capiche?
     
  14. Jay Hill

    Jay Hill Guest

    Heinz Getzler wrote:

    > I do respect Lance for having the humility to admit that he is not as great as Eddy Hinault
    > unlike Lemond.

    And where did Lemond say he was as great as "Eddy Hinault"? (I think you meant Merckx.)
     
  15. Jerry

    Jerry Guest

    "Tom Schulenburg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > "tispectrum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse
    >
    > Racing today has changed a lot since Eddy's time. Just out of curiosity, When was the last time
    > someone won a classic and the TdF in the same year?
    SNIP

    When was the last time someone besides Lance won the tour? And Indurain before him. I think the
    whole "TDF winners are one race wonders" thing is somewhat skewed by the fact that in recent history
    (heck the last decade or more) the TDF has been dominated by two people who were particularly single
    minded. I don't think the rest of the podium/top tenners can be called one race a year riders.

    Another problem is the moving of the Worlds to October and the Veulta to the fall. Used to be the
    TDF winner had some incentive to carry on racing, and we used to see them kicking ass in the post
    tour big races cause everyone else was so shelled from the tour.

    just my 2 peso's

    J
     
  16. "Tony" <[email protected]com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > who is Eddy Hinault??

    Sory I meant to say Eddy Merckx and Bernard Hinault
    >
    >
    > "Heinz Getzler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Tom Schulenburg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > "tispectrum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > > Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse
    > > >
    > > > Racing today has changed a lot since Eddy's time.
    > > The excuse that "racing has changed" is used quite often when comparing Eddy to Armstrong. I
    > > agree that racing has gotten considerably harder and there is a need to pick and choose races.
    > > But a more important question to ask is it good for the sport of cycling.................???
    > >
    > >
    > > Just out of curiosity,
    > > > When was the last time someone won a classic and the TdF in the same
    > year?
    > > > I can see Lance's point about not racing for second. Why risk injury
    > with
    > > > nothing on the line? Most of the riders he was contending with were
    > fighting
    > > > for worldcup points, sponsor recognition, contracts for next year, etc. Lance is not worried
    > > > about any of that. The win means something, nothing else matters.
    > > >
    > > > Unless Lance thought he couldn't beat Axel in a sprint, he might have
    > had a
    > > > better chance if they worked together - There was no reason for Lance to "diss" him.
    > > >
    > > > -T
     
  17. Bosaci

    Bosaci Guest

    "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >From: "Kurgan Gringioni" [email protected]
    >
    > >Has any single rider humiliated more of his contemporaries with
    on-the-bike
    > >displays of superiority than Eddy Merckx? He is The King in that regard
    and
    > >there is no close second.
    >
    > And the problem with that is? I'd compare Eddy to Ali. Talk the talk,
    then do
    > it, or in Eddy's case do it then talk. Lance is great, but Eddy was just on a different level. I
    > don't expect
    to see
    > another Ali, or Eddy anytime soon if ever. Bill C

    Well you better stay tuned then and check out Tom Danielson.

    The next super star!
     
  18. "jerry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:5fb1f0[email protected]...
    > "Tom Schulenburg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > "tispectrum" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > > Merckx lambasts Armstrong for riding on high horse
    > >
    > > Racing today has changed a lot since Eddy's time. Just out of curiosity, When was the last time
    > > someone won a classic and the TdF in the same
    year?
    > SNIP
    >
    > When was the last time someone besides Lance won the tour? And Indurain before him. I think the
    > whole "TDF winners are one race wonders" thing is somewhat skewed by the fact that in recent
    > history (heck the last decade or more)

    <Snip>

    That would be fine if we were just talking about the last 10 years, but as far as I can tell, it's
    been more than 20. As much as the Tour riders are becoming "specialists", so are the Classic riders.
    I don't think we'll ever see another rider like Merckx. It will take a great rider to win the TdF
    and a Classic in the same year, but until that happens again there will be a lot of very good /
    great riders who fail to do that..

    -T
     
  19. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    jerry <[email protected]> wrote:
    > When was the last time someone besides Lance won the tour? And Indurain before him. I think the
    > whole "TDF winners are one race wonders" thing is somewhat skewed by the fact that in recent
    > history (heck the last decade or more) the TDF has been dominated by two people who were
    > particularly single minded. I don't think the rest of the podium/top tenners can be called one
    > race a year riders.

    That's the trouble with the Tour, its importance so far overshadows the rest of the schedule that if
    you are dominant there then no one remembers anything else. Both Indurain and Armstrong have
    achieved results outside of the Tour to be considered great riders. But the consecutive Tour wins
    pushes everything else into the background. Look it up. Both had great careers outside of the Tour.
    But when you are the main story in the most important race for several years, even a great career in
    other races fades into the background.

    The 93 WC road race is a great example. How many of us would have looked at that group sprinting for
    second and picked Indurain over Museeuw, Ludwig, Fondriest, etc. Yet he took it and were it not for
    LANCE off the front he would have scored the Giro-Tour-WC triple that year. And he is remembered as
    a rider that concentrated only on the Tour. Even though he and Rominger are the last riders to take
    both the Giro and Tour seriously.

    Three consecutive podium races in the Giro. Anyone remember that?

    Bob Schwartz [email protected]
     
  20. "Tom Schulenburg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >
    > > When was the last time someone besides Lance won the tour? And Indurain before him. I think the
    > > whole "TDF winners are one race wonders" thing is somewhat skewed by the fact that in recent
    > > history (heck the last decade or more)
    >
    > <Snip>
    >
    > That would be fine if we were just talking about the last 10 years, but as far as I can tell, it's
    > been more than 20. As much as the Tour riders are becoming "specialists", so are the Classic
    > riders. I don't think we'll
    ever
    > see another rider like Merckx. It will take a great rider to win the TdF
    and
    > a Classic in the same year, but until that happens again there will be a
    lot
    > of very good / great riders who fail to do that..

    I think it is a phase. We've gone through nutritional fads and training fads, all which have fallen
    by the wayside due to the 'current' scientific approach. I think it will eventually be realized that
    you can train to be competitive in both the classics and the TdF. Lance's recognition as being one
    of the favorites for AG and LBL bears that out, but I think you can plan to be competitive in both,
    not just use the classics as a measuring stick of fitness.

    [Pursuiter mode on] For years, it was accepted that you had to specialize in the pursuit: you had to
    have the proper base, buildup, and speedwork, and more recently, phases of altitude training. Riders
    like Boardman, Rominger (hour record at damn fast speed), Francis Moreau, and Brad McGee have shown
    that this isn't necessarily so. Regarding training and racing, pursuiters were treated like
    thorobred horses; carefully scheduled training, limited racing as to not interfere with the
    specialized buildup to a peak, etc. In the past 10 years, the above mentioned riders came almost
    directly from the TdF (except Rominger who had to learn to ride a bike) and thrashed the record
    books and competition. [Pursuiter mode off]

    IMO, the only thing keeping Lance and the like from having more focus on the classics (as
    mentioned already) is the notoriety and monetary rewards associated with the most recognized bike
    race in the world.
     
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