Merlin Frame Alignment. question

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Andrew, Feb 4, 2004.

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  1. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic measured the alignment using the Park alignment gauge
    (the one that checks from head tube to seat tube to dropout.) It was 3.9 mm out of alignment, the
    rear dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable, should I get it put on a real frame table
    and measure the rest of it? Any advice would be wonderful. Andrew
     
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  2. Phil Brown

    Phil Brown Guest

    > Is this acceptable, should I get it put on a real frame table and measure the rest of it? Any
    > advice would be wonderful. Andrew

    Put it on a real table. Phil Brown
     
  3. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    >I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic measured the alignment using the Park alignment gauge
    >(the one that checks from head tube to seat tube to dropout.) It was 3.9 mm out of alignment, the
    >rear dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable, should I get it put on a real frame table
    >and measure the rest of it? Any advice would be wonderful.

    At merlin prices, I would insist on a straight frame.
    -------------
    Alex
     
  4. In article <[email protected]>,
    andrew <[email protected]> wrote:
    >I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic measured the alignment using the Park alignment gauge
    >(the one that checks from head tube to seat tube to dropout.) It was 3.9 mm out of alignment, the
    >rear dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable, should I get it put on a real frame table
    >and measure the rest of it? Any advice would be wonderful.

    Putting it on the table would be a great idea, but if the rear triangle is really out 3.9mm then you
    already know you need to send it back, and you don't really require a proper alignment table to
    determine that.

    --Paul
     
  5. > I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic measured the alignment using the Park alignment gauge
    > (the one that checks from head tube to seat tube to dropout.) It was 3.9 mm out of alignment, the
    > rear dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable, should I get it put on a real frame
    > table and measure the rest of it? Any advice would be wonderful.

    If you're talking about the Park alignment tool that has the open square box design, I would not
    trust it for meaningful results. It's too susceptible to damage over time from twisting. If your
    frame is really that far out of alignment, a simple string test will verify it. Just tie a piece of
    string from one dropout, up around the headtube, and back to the other. Measure the difference
    beween the string and the seat tube on each side and compare. Even this isn't the best way to do it,
    since it really doesn't matter if the seat tube is perfectly centered to a mm with respect to the
    rest of the bike, and if it's off, that will make it appear that the frame's out of alignment. If
    we're defining out of alignment as a condition in which the front & rear wheels don't track each
    other perfectly, neither a string test nor the Park tool will do the job. However, the string will
    at least make sure you're in the ballpark.

    This brings up an interesting point though. What *is* the definition of proper frame alignment? What
    are the various things to be considered that actually have something to do with the way it handles &
    shifts gears?

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

    "andrew" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic measured the alignment using the Park alignment gauge
    > (the one that checks from head tube to seat tube to dropout.) It was 3.9 mm out of alignment, the
    > rear dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable, should I get it put on a real frame
    > table and measure the rest of it? Any advice would be wonderful. Andrew
     
  6. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    andrew wrote:
    > I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic measured the alignment using the Park alignment gauge
    > (the one that checks from head tube to seat tube to dropout.) It was 3.9 mm out of alignment, the
    > rear dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable, should I get it put on a real frame
    > table and measure the rest of it? Any advice would be wonderful.

    Wait for them to get you a straight one before you accept delivery. 4mm is a lot on a new
    frame nowadays.

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  7. astaft-<< I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic measured the alignment using the Park
    alignment gauge (the one that checks from head tube to seat tube to dropout.) It was 3.9 mm out of
    alignment, the rear dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable, should I get it put on a
    real frame table and measure the rest of it? >><BR><BR>

    Is this a trick question?

    This is a NEW frameset? and almost 4mm out of alignment?

    YGBSM...get a new frameset, period, not align this one but a new one. ACG ought to be ashamed to let
    this one leave w/o checking it.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  8. Jay Hill

    Jay Hill Guest

    Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles wrote:
    >
    > This brings up an interesting point though. What *is* the definition of proper frame alignment?

    The ability to easily ride it without hands on the bars.
     
  9. > Is this a trick question?
    >
    > This is a NEW frameset? and almost 4mm out of alignment?

    Which is why I suspect the tools, and use thereof. If they're using the Park tool I'm thinking of,
    it can be wildly inaccurate. I should look it up in the catalog... ok, there it is, the FAG-2.
    Actually a slight improvement over the one we have (probably an FAG-1?) but still has that awful,
    twist-prone open-channel design that accounts for the problems.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    m10.aol.com...
    > astaft-<< I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic measured the
    alignment
    > using the Park alignment gauge (the one that checks from head tube to seat tube to dropout.) It
    > was 3.9 mm out of alignment, the rear dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable, should
    > I get it put on a real frame table and measure the rest of it? >><BR><BR>
    >
    > Is this a trick question?
    >
    > This is a NEW frameset? and almost 4mm out of alignment?
    >
    > YGBSM...get a new frameset, period, not align this one but a new one. ACG
    ought
    > to be ashamed to let this one leave w/o checking it.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    > (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  10. Skuke

    Skuke Guest

    On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:10:08 -0800, Jay Hill wrote:

    > Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles wrote:
    >>
    >> This brings up an interesting point though. What *is* the definition of proper frame alignment?
    >
    > The ability to easily ride it without hands on the bars.

    My ability to easily ride without hands on the bars has been changed simply by replacing the
    knobbies on my mt. bike.

    I had some Ritchie Megabites(?) a long time ago and could not ride sans hands. Change the tires and
    instantly had no problems!

    ...Yes, the axels were properly seated in the dropouts. Had them in and out countless time during
    the life of the tires. Had the tires off and on a bunch of times too from fixing flats.

    Proper frame alignment is: Everything on the bike is the proper length, angle, diameter,
    straightness, parallel... within the manufacturer's tolerance. Yes, I didn't really *say*
    anything, but what I said is correct and accurate for ANYTHING manufactured. There is some
    specification and if the thingy is not in spec, then it is out of "alignment", to use the word in
    this thread and context.
    --
    Skuke Reverse the domain name to send email
     
  11. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    >>astaft-<< I just got a new Merlin Magia. The mechanic
    measured the
    > alignment
    >>using the Park alignment gauge (the one that checks from
    head tube to
    >>seat tube to dropout.) It was 3.9 mm out of alignment,
    the rear
    >>dropout spacing was fine though. Is this acceptable,
    should I get it
    >>put on a real frame table and measure the rest of it?

    > "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message
    > news:[email protected]... Is this a trick question?
    >>This is a NEW frameset? and almost 4mm out of alignment? YGBSM...get a new frameset, period, not
    >>align this one
    but a new one. ACG

    Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles wrote:
    > Which is why I suspect the tools, and use thereof. If they're using the Park tool I'm thinking of,
    > it can be wildly inaccurate. I should look it up in the catalog... ok, there it is, the FAG-2.
    > Actually a slight improvement over the one we have (probably an FAG-1?) but still has that awful,
    > twist-prone open-channel design that accounts for the problems. ought
    >>to be ashamed to let this one leave w/o checking it.

    Yes the Park FAG* is flimsy. All tools of that design ( even my own!) are.

    If the operator takes care to hold the tool just at the head tube and at the seat tube, it's plenty
    accurate. If it's held somewhere in the middle, the tool's flex will give an inaccurate reading.

    * Did somebody at Park get a bonus for naming it?
    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  12. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles wrote:
    >> Which is why I suspect the tools, and use thereof. If they're using the Park tool I'm thinking
    >> of, it can be wildly inaccurate. I should look it up in the catalog... ok, there it is, the FAG-
    >> 2. Actually a slight improvement over the one we have (probably an FAG-1?) but still has that
    >> awful, twist-prone open-channel design that accounts for the problems. ought
    >>>to be ashamed to let this one leave w/o checking it.
    >
    >Yes the Park FAG* is flimsy. All tools of that design ( even my own!) are.
    >
    >If the operator takes care to hold the tool just at the head tube and at the seat tube, it's plenty
    >accurate. If it's held somewhere in the middle, the tool's flex will give an inaccurate reading.

    I've had no obvious flex-related issue with my own FAG-2. It seems to me that even if the tool's
    body is slightly twisted it would still measure properly (since both surfaces it rests on are
    supposed to be parallel). I've gotten very repeatable measurements with my own FAG-2 over the years.

    >* Did somebody at Park get a bonus for naming it?

    Very un-PC, to be sure. There are other tools that would be less PC with that name, but I'm not
    going there... ;-)

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
  13. In article <[email protected]>,
    Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:

    > A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles wrote:

    > >Yes the Park FAG* is flimsy. All tools of that design ( even my own!) are.
    > >* Did somebody at Park get a bonus for naming it?
    >
    > Very un-PC, to be sure. There are other tools that would be less PC with that name, but I'm not
    > going there... ;-)

    You're thinking of the head cup remover, RT-1

    http://www.parktool.com/tools/RT_1.shtml

    Ooh... "Click on image for enlarged picture of tool in use"*...that link may not be safe for work.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  14. Ryan Cousineau wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles wrote:
    >
    >>> Yes the Park FAG* is flimsy. All tools of that design ( even my own!) are.
    >>> * Did somebody at Park get a bonus for naming it?
    >>
    >> Very un-PC, to be sure. There are other tools that would be less PC with that name, but I'm not
    >> going there... ;-)
    >
    > You're thinking of the head cup remover, RT-1
    >
    > http://www.parktool.com/tools/RT_1.shtml
    >
    > Ooh... "Click on image for enlarged picture of tool in use"*...that link may not be safe for work.

    It's pretty explicit all right. They show the full insertion and everything.

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    Don't tell me how hard you work. Tell me how much you get done. -- James J. Ling
     
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