Metal water bottles?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Peter, Apr 7, 2003.

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  1. Peter

    Peter Guest

    Sparked by a previous thread I didn't want to hijack. I always use metal bottles with a coating
    inside, having found water from plastic bottles unpleasent tasting especially with fruit juice
    concentrate added to the water, as I do sometimes. Anyone know any reasons for not using metal
    bottles? peter
     
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  2. Archer

    Archer Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > Sparked by a previous thread I didn't want to hijack. I always use metal bottles with a coating
    > inside, having found water from plastic bottles unpleasent tasting especially with fruit juice
    > concentrate added to the water, as I do sometimes. Anyone know any reasons for not using metal
    > bottles?

    It depends on the bottle material. I wouldn't use uncoated aluminum with any acidic liquid like
    fruit juice, de-fizzed soda, etc. With coated Al or uncoated stainless steel, weight would be the
    only issue I can see.

    --
    David Kerber An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good Lord,
    it's morning".

    Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.
     
  3. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Peter who? writes:

    > I always use metal bottles with a coating inside, having found water from plastic bottles
    > unpleasant tasting especially with fruit juice concentrate added to the water, as I do sometimes.
    > Anyone know any reasons for not using metal bottles?

    Before there were plastic bottles all water bottles used by professional racers were metal, more
    precisely aluminum. These bottles had natural cork for a plug and became dented at the drop of a
    bottle. Besides they weighed more than plastic bottles that have water tight lids with a squirt
    valve that can be opened and closed easily.

    I'm not sure what you discovered with metal bottles but I'm sure it has all been seen before. The
    point is that racers are interested in a gulp of water most conveniently and reliably. Taste is not
    a concern, although it would be nice if all the other features were there WITH no plastic taste.

    I'm sure chemists can come up with a non-tasting plastic bicycle bottle as they have for many drinks
    from water to fruit juices. Apparently, the bottle buying public has not made this a priority.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  4. [email protected] wrote let it be known in
    news:[email protected]:

    > I'm sure chemists can come up with a non-tasting plastic bicycle bottle as they have for many
    > drinks from water to fruit juices. Apparently, the bottle buying public has not made this a
    > priority.

    The ONLY reason I put anything in my water bottle other than water is to kill the taste of
    the plastic.

    I've found that a weak mixture of Gatorade gives just enough taste to mask the plastic bottle taste.
    I don't know if I'm really getting any benefit from the Gatorade or not, but I'm certainly drinking
    a lot more water. In the past, I would get much more dehydrated on a ride since I would put off
    drinking until I absolutely had to!

    Warm water in a plastic bottle... Yuch!

    RE: Metal bottles. I would want to be 100% sure that the bottles didn't have ANY aluminum in them.
    I've been seeing some really scary reports about the effects of aluminum ingested over long periods
    of time because of the use of aluminum cooking utensils. Aluminum in the diet has been
    (tentatively?) identified as a factor increasing your risk of Alzheimers:

    http://www.healthwell.com/hnbreakthroughs/mar98/aluminum.cfm

    Maybe you should get titanium water bottles. You'd be the envy of all the other riders. :)

    --

    Curt Bousquet [email protected] < Reverse for email

    Road biking in Southern VT and Western Mass.

    My 2002 bike log: http://www.scanline.com/bikelog/2003.html
     
  5. Ken

    Ken Guest

    "peter" <[email protected]> wrote in news:b6seel$c1$1 @hercules.btinternet.com:
    > Sparked by a previous thread I didn't want to hijack. I always use metal bottles with a coating
    > inside, having found water from plastic bottles unpleasent tasting especially with fruit juice
    > concentrate added to the water, as I do sometimes. Anyone know any reasons for not using metal
    > bottles?

    SIGG, the company that makes aluminum gasoline bottles for campers, used to make aluminum water
    bottles as well. They were lined on the inside (with plastic?) to prevent the metal taste. I never
    used them. Since you can't squeeze them like plastic bottles, getting water out of them must be
    inefficient
     
  6. Slider2699

    Slider2699 Guest

    "peter" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Sparked by a previous thread I didn't want to hijack. I always use metal bottles with a coating
    > inside, having found water from plastic bottles unpleasent tasting especially with fruit juice
    > concentrate added to the water, as I do sometimes. Anyone know any reasons for not using metal
    > bottles? peter

    How does one use a metal bottle? I squeeze my plastic bottles to squirt the water in my mouth. I
    guess with a metal bottle you have to suck it like a baby, or tilt your head all the way back to get
    the last drops. I think I'll stick with plastic.
     
  7. Fritz M

    Fritz M Guest

    "Slider2699" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I guess with a metal bottle you have to suck it like a baby...

    And then imagine having that chunk of metal in your mouth when you hit a bump. Ouch, there go a
    couple of teeth.

    I'll stick with plastic :)

    RFM
     
  8. Peter

    Peter Guest

    Thanks for the replies, just wanted to check there wasn't something dreadful I was not aware of. I'm
    an old guy who rides slowly with frequent rest and sightseeing stops. Using a metal bottle is not a
    problem for me as I wouldn't use it when riding, only when stopped. peter
     
  9. Andy Simpson

    Andy Simpson Guest

    "Ken" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "peter" <[email protected]> wrote in news:b6seel$c1$1 @hercules.btinternet.com:
    > > Sparked by a previous thread I didn't want to hijack. I always use metal bottles with a coating
    > > inside, having found water
    from
    > > plastic bottles unpleasent tasting especially with fruit juice
    concentrate
    > > added to the water, as I do sometimes. Anyone know any reasons for not using metal bottles?
    >
    > SIGG, the company that makes aluminum gasoline bottles for campers, used
    to
    > make aluminum water bottles as well. They were lined on the inside (with plastic?) to prevent the
    > metal taste. I never used them. Since you can't squeeze them like plastic bottles, getting water
    > out of them must be inefficient

    I've got a SIGG bottle which I don't use for the reason postulated by Ken - you can't squeeze it, so
    getting a decent quantity of water from it is very difficult. Its also extremely disconcerting when
    you think it is a regular bottle but you have lost the strength to squeeze it.

    Andy
     
  10. Gary Mishler

    Gary Mishler Guest

    "Curt Bousquet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > RE: Metal bottles. I would want to be 100% sure that the bottles didn't have ANY aluminum in them.
    > I've been seeing some really scary reports about the effects of aluminum ingested over long
    > periods of time because of the use of aluminum cooking utensils. Aluminum in the diet has been
    > (tentatively?) identified as a factor increasing your risk of Alzheimers:

    This is off-topic - and NOT to start a flame war - but I wrote to the Alzheimer's Disease group once
    awhile back and here is the response I got:

    There are many theories as to what may cause Alzheimer's disease, and one theory focused on
    aluminum. However, there is no evidence that aluminum exposure from any source (soda cans, cookware,
    antiperspirant, antacids) affects the risk or progression of Alzheimer's disease. Aluminum is one of
    the most common substances in the earth's crust. The aluminum theory was based on the fact that
    early autopsies of Alzheimer's patients found aluminum deposits in the brain. At this time,
    researchers believe that the aluminum found in the brain of an Alzheimer's patient accumulates as a
    result of already having the disease, rather than an accumulation of aluminum causing the disease.
    Also, autopsies of Alzheimer's patients indicate that not all Alzheimer's patients have aluminum
    deposits in their brains. If you would like us to send you information on Alzheimer's disease and
    aluminum, please reply to this message with your postal mailing address and request publication
    Z-31. That article is also available at

    [http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON00036.html].

    For more information about Alzheimer's Disease, please call us at (800) 438-4380 or visit our web
    site at <www.alzheimers.org>.
    --
    We hope you find this information useful.

    Sincerely, The ADEAR Center Staff
     
  11. Ken

    Ken Guest

    "peter" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
    > Thanks for the replies, just wanted to check there wasn't something dreadful I was not aware of.
    > I'm an old guy who rides slowly with frequent rest and sightseeing stops. Using a metal bottle is
    > not a problem for me as I wouldn't use it when riding, only when stopped.

    Why not use Lexan water bottles? They are lighter weight and cheaper. Not as strong, though.
     
  12. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > ... I'm sure chemists can come up with a non-tasting plastic bicycle bottle as they have for many
    > drinks from water to fruit juices. Apparently, the bottle buying public has not made this a
    > priority.

    One would think the polyethylene terephthalate (PET) commonly used for commercially packaged
    beverages would be an acceptable replacement for the low and high-density polyethylene (LDPE and
    HDPE) commonly used for squeeze water bottles. PET would impart less taste than LDPE or HDPE (which
    are not usually used for food packaging).

    Maybe there is a business opportunity here?

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  13. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Curt Bousquet wrote:
    >
    > The ONLY reason I put anything in my water bottle other than water is to kill the taste of the
    > plastic.
    >
    > I've found that a weak mixture of Gatorade gives just enough taste to mask the plastic bottle
    > taste. I don't know if I'm really getting any benefit from the Gatorade or not, but I'm certainly
    > drinking a lot more water. In the past, I would get much more dehydrated on a ride since I would
    > put off drinking until I absolutely had to!

    Lemon juice concentrate works well to cover up the taste of whatever compounds are released from the
    water bottle material - typically LDPE but occasionally HDPE [1]. I also use lemon juice concentrate
    in my Camelbaks and to cover up the chlorine aftertaste of the water from my municipal water supply.

    [1] To judge from my collection of water bottles obtained at various cycling events.

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  14. Pete Hickey

    Pete Hickey Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >[email protected] wrote:
    >> ... I'm sure chemists can come up with a non-tasting plastic bicycle bottle as they have for many
    >> drinks from water to fruit juices. Apparently, the bottle buying public has not made this a
    >> priority.
    >
    >One would think the polyethylene terephthalate (PET) commonly used for commercially packaged
    >beverages would be an acceptable replacement for the low and high-density polyethylene (LDPE and
    >HDPE) commonly used for squeeze water bottles. PET would impart less taste than LDPE or HDPE (which
    >are not usually used for food packaging).
    >
    >Maybe there is a business opportunity here?

    It wouldn't make good business sense. Many people regularly replace their bottles as they get older.
    Making a bottle that woule impart less taste, would mean it would last longer, therefore less sales.

    --
    --
    LITTLE KNOWN FACT: Did you know that 90% of North Americans cannot taste the difference between
    fried dog and fried cat?
     
  15. Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    >> One would think the polyethylene terephthalate (PET) commonly used
    for
    > commercially packaged beverages would be an acceptable replacement for the low and high-density
    > polyethylene (LDPE and HDPE) commonly used for squeeze water bottles. PET would impart less taste
    > than LDPE or HDPE (which are not usually used for food packaging).
    >
    Without comment, from:

    http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:rjsFFPqO3eAC:chealth.canoe.ca/health_news_detail.asp%3Fchannel_-
    id%3D44%26news_id%3D5829+health+single+use+plastic+bottle&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

    ============================================================

    Reusing your water bottle may be a health risk Jan. 26, 2003

    Provided by: Canadian Press

    Written by: JEN HORSEY

    People who frequently reuse water bottles may be risking their health. (CP Archive) TORONTO (CP) -
    While people may think they're doing a good deed for the environment when they reuse water bottles
    for anything from orange juice in a bagged lunch to a week's worth of water refills from the office
    water cooler, researchers say they could be risking their health.

    Dangerous bacteria and potentially toxic plastic compounds have been found in the types of water
    bottles typically reused in classrooms and workplaces countrywide.
    ==================================================================

    Single-use soft-drink and water bottles are commonly made of a plastic called polyethylene
    terephthalate (PET) which, while considered safe for its intended use, was found to break down
    over time.

    "The longer you used it, the more stuff ended up in the water," said von Braun.
     
  16. Terry Morse

    Terry Morse Guest

    Jobst Brandt wrote:

    > I'm sure chemists can come up with a non-tasting plastic bicycle bottle as they have for many
    > drinks from water to fruit juices.

    I hear the tricky part is making a taste-free plastic that's also flexible. I "cook" my new bottles
    for several hours in an oven at about 140F, which "out-gasses" the volatile chemicals in the
    plastic. The bad water taste is eliminated.

    It's not as strange a practice as aging tubulars, I guess.
    --
    terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/
     
  17. On Tue, 08 Apr 2003 03:55:22 +0000, Ken wrote:

    > Why not use Lexan water bottles? They are lighter weight and cheaper. Not as strong, though.

    OK, where do you find Lexan water bottles -- that is, ones that fit in a typical cage?

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not _`\(,_ | certain, and as
    far as they are certain, they do not refer to (_)/ (_) | reality. -- Albert Einstein
     
  18. Ken

    Ken Guest

    "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
    > OK, where do you find Lexan water bottles -- that is, ones that fit in a typical cage?

    16 ounce Nalgene lexan water bottles will fit in bicycle bottle cages. You can find them in camping
    supply or sporting goods stores or the big camping web sites like rei.com or campmor.com . These
    bottles aren't as flexible as soft waterbottles, however, so they they don't hold as well and will
    probably rattle a bit when you're on the road.
     
  19. Buck

    Buck Guest

    "Terry Morse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Jobst Brandt wrote:
    >
    > > I'm sure chemists can come up with a non-tasting plastic bicycle bottle as they have for many
    > > drinks from water to fruit juices.
    >
    > I hear the tricky part is making a taste-free plastic that's also flexible. I "cook" my new
    > bottles for several hours in an oven at about 140F, which "out-gasses" the volatile chemicals in
    > the plastic. The bad water taste is eliminated.
    >
    > It's not as strange a practice as aging tubulars, I guess.

    That might be why some of us don't have this smelly plastic problem. I regularly run mine through
    the dishwasher. I understand that the water temperature reaches 150°F. Just keep it on "air dry" to
    avoid melting the bottles.

    -Buck
     
  20. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    "Terry Morse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > I hear the tricky part is making a taste-free plastic
    that's also
    > flexible. I "cook" my new bottles for several hours in an
    oven at about
    > 140F, which "out-gasses" the volatile chemicals in the
    plastic. The bad
    > water taste is eliminated.

    Running them through the dishwasher will accomplish the same thing. Works for me.

    Matt O.
     
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