Metal water bottles?

[Jobst Brandt]

Pete Hickey <[email protected]> writes:

>>> I'm sure chemists can come up with a non-tasting plastic bicycle bottle as they have for many
>>> drinks from water to fruit juices. Apparently, the bottle buying public has not made this a
>>> priority.

>> One would think the polyethylene terephthalate (PET) commonly used for commercially packaged
>> beverages would be an acceptable replacement for the low and high-density polyethylene (LDPE and
>> HDPE) commonly used for squeeze water bottles. PET would impart less taste than LDPE or HDPE
>> (which are not usually used for food packaging).

>> Maybe there is a business opportunity here?

> It wouldn't make good business sense. Many people regularly replace their bottles as they get
> older. Making a bottle that would impart less taste, would mean it would last longer, therefore
> less sales.

That's an old saw that doesn't cut. The competitive market takes care of that when there is no
monopoly. In this case it is an open market and if a taste free water bottle were offered, even at
a higher price, people would most likely buy it. On the other hand, if Lance Armstrong was seen
drinking from a recognizable brand of bottle, people would buy it regardless of how awful it
tasted. So maybe the market isn't as free as it ought to be, the customers having their own
restrictive vision.

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA

 

[Gordon Renkes]

[email protected] wrote:
>
> Peter who? writes:
>
> > I always use metal bottles with a coating inside, having found water from plastic bottles
> > unpleasant tasting especially with fruit juice
[ ... ]

> [ ... ] I'm sure chemists can come up with a non-tasting plastic bicycle bottle as they have for
> many drinks from water to fruit juices. Apparently, the bottle buying public has not made this a
> priority.

My food chemist friends over at Ross Laboratories (now owned by Abbott Labs) have much
experience getting foul tastes out of food containers. They make a variety of baby formulas,
as well as supplements for those with inherited nutritional deficiencies. Babies and their
mothers are sensitive to bad tastes in purchased foods and drinks. They have found that
hydrogen peroxide works quite well. It oxidizes whatever gives the bad taste, and leaves no
after taste of its own.

Based on their recommendation, when I have an undesirable taste in a water bottle, I fill
the bottle 1/3 with 3% hydrogen peroxide, and then fill it full with hot water from the tap.
After setting overnight, the bad taste is gone.

--
Gordon Renkes [email protected] THE Ohio State University 614-292-3977

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Tue, 08 Apr 2003 13:11:02 +0000, Buck wrote:

> That might be why some of us don't have this smelly plastic problem. I regularly run mine through
> the dishwasher. I understand that the water temperature reaches 150°F. Just keep it on "air dry"
> to avoid melting the bottles.

I wash mine in the dishwasher, too, after each use. Still not great, especially in the Summer. I
still have yet to see the solution I am looking for. Using a camping-style bottle on the bike is a
problem due to the complicated stopper.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | We have a record of conquet, colonization and expansion _`\(,_ | unequalled by any people
in the Nineteenth Century. We are not (_)/ (_) | to be curbed now. --Henry Cabot Lodge, 1895

 

[Waldo Hinshaw]

"peter" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Sparked by a previous thread I didn't want to hijack. I always use metal bottles with a coating
> inside, having found water from plastic bottles unpleasent tasting especially with fruit juice
> concentrate added to the water, as I do sometimes. Anyone know any reasons for not using metal
> bottles? peter

I find that if I use the same bottle every day and, when done, drain it and turn it upside down in
its cage, it has no taste. But when I use a bottle that has not been used in a few days, it does
have a taste.

But I am known for my lack of taste.

 

[Robin Hubert]

"Waldo Hinshaw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "peter" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Sparked by a previous thread I didn't want to hijack. I always use metal bottles with a coating
> > inside, having found water
from
> > plastic bottles unpleasent tasting especially with fruit juice
concentrate
> > added to the water, as I do sometimes. Anyone know any reasons for not using metal
> > bottles? peter
>
>
> I find that if I use the same bottle every day and, when done, drain it
and
> turn it upside down in its cage, it has no taste. But when I use a bottle that has not been used
> in a few days, it does have a taste.
>
> But I am known for my lack of taste.

You can do what real men (tm) like Jobst do, and take your water from a glass or fountain,
not a bottle!

Or, you can do what I do, and ignore the plastic taste. As I said before, if it don't hurt you
.... Anyway, who drinks water for the taste? I drink it out of necessity. If you want tasty water,
have a beer.

Robin Hubert

 

[Robin Hubert]

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Pete Hickey <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >>> I'm sure chemists can come up with a non-tasting plastic bicycle bottle as they have for many
> >>> drinks from water to fruit juices. Apparently, the bottle buying public has not made this a
> >>> priority.
>
> >> One would think the polyethylene terephthalate (PET) commonly used for commercially packaged
> >> beverages would be an acceptable replacement for the low and high-density polyethylene (LDPE
> >> and HDPE) commonly used for squeeze water bottles. PET would impart less taste than LDPE or
> >> HDPE (which are not usually used for food packaging).
>
> >> Maybe there is a business opportunity here?
>
> > It wouldn't make good business sense. Many people regularly replace their bottles as they get
> > older. Making a bottle that would impart less taste, would mean it would last longer, therefore
> > less sales.
>
> That's an old saw that doesn't cut. The competitive market takes care of that when there is no
> monopoly. In this case it is an open market and if a taste free water bottle were offered, even at
> a higher price, people would most likely buy it. On the other hand, if Lance Armstrong was seen
> drinking from a recognizable brand of bottle, people would buy it regardless of how awful it
> tasted. So maybe the market isn't as free as it ought to be, the customers having their own
> restrictive vision.

The American buying public is like the American driving public, in my opinion, very myopic.

Robin Hubert

 

[Pete Hickey]

>>>>> tasetless bottle

>>> Maybe there is a business opportunity here?

In article <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> wrote:
>Pete Hickey <[email protected]> writes:

>> It wouldn't make good business sense. Many people regularly replace their bottles as they get
>> older. Making a bottle that would impart less taste, would mean it would last longer, therefore
>> less sales.
>
>That's an old saw that doesn't cut. The competitive market takes care of that when there is no
>monopoly. In this case it is an open market and if a taste free water bottle were offered, even at
>a higher price, people would most likely buy it. On the other hand, if Lance Armstrong was seen
>drinking from a recognizable brand of bottle, people would buy it regardless of how awful it
>tasted. So maybe the market isn't as free as it ought to be, the customers having their own
>restrictive vision.

I was just trying to come up with a reason. Maybe it is marketting.

Tastless bottles are available, and they are very low cost. Buy a bottle of Gatorade (or its
competitors) with the twist spout. Dump out (or drink) the contents. The bottle fits in the cage (at
least the ones around here do). No taste, lighter and cheaper.

Same volume as my 'real' water bottle.

--
--
LITTLE KNOWN FACT: Did you know that 90% of North Americans cannot taste the difference between
fried dog and fried cat?

 

[Mark Freedman]

"peter" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Thanks for the replies, just wanted to check there wasn't something dreadful I was not aware of.
> I'm an old guy who rides slowly with frequent rest and sightseeing stops. Using a metal bottle is
> not a problem for me as I wouldn't use it when riding, only when stopped. peter

We've probably milked whether to use a metal water bottle or not to death.

Time to start the "Steel versus Aluminium" thread.

Many traditionalists prefer the "lively" feel of a steel water bottle, although it can rust,
especially when exposed to salt. So carry your sea water in a plastic bottle. Steel bottles
fatigue with use, and eventually lose that "lively" feel.

Aluminium is lighter, but an Aluminium water bottle has to be thicker to be as strong as a steel.
This produces a less comfortable bottle. And of course, it suffers from metal fatigue over time.
A tired aluminium bottle can break at an inopportune moment, and cause a crash.

Many cyclists scoff at the alleged differences, and claim the difference in feel is entirely due
to the colour of the bottle.

Have I missed anything?

 

[Robin Hubert]

"mark freedman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "peter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > Thanks for the replies, just wanted to check there wasn't something
dreadful
> > I was not aware of. I'm an old guy who rides slowly with frequent rest and sightseeing
stops.
> > Using a metal bottle is not a problem for me as I wouldn't use it when riding, only when
> > stopped. peter
>
>
> We've probably milked whether to use a metal water bottle or not to death.
>
> Time to start the "Steel versus Aluminium" thread.
>
> Many traditionalists prefer the "lively" feel of a steel water bottle, although it can rust,
> especially when exposed to salt. So carry your sea water in a plastic bottle. Steel bottles
> fatigue with use, and eventually lose that "lively" feel.
>
> Aluminium is lighter, but an Aluminium water bottle has to be thicker to be as strong as a
> steel. This produces a less comfortable bottle. And of course, it suffers from metal fatigue
> over time. A tired aluminium bottle can break at an inopportune moment, and cause a crash.
>
> Many cyclists scoff at the alleged differences, and claim the difference in feel is entirely
> due to the colour of the bottle.
>
> Have I missed anything?

Which one is harder to squeeze?

Robin Hubert

 

[Archer]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

...

> Many cyclists scoff at the alleged differences, and claim the difference in feel is entirely
> due to the colour of the bottle.
>
> Have I missed anything?

Yes; you forgot about stainless steel <GGGG>.

--
David Kerber An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good Lord,
it's morning".

Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.

 

[Slider2699]

"mark freedman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "peter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > Thanks for the replies, just wanted to check there wasn't something
dreadful
> > I was not aware of. I'm an old guy who rides slowly with frequent rest and sightseeing
stops.
> > Using a metal bottle is not a problem for me as I wouldn't use it when riding, only when
> > stopped. peter
>
>
> We've probably milked whether to use a metal water bottle or not to death.
>
> Time to start the "Steel versus Aluminium" thread.
>
> Many traditionalists prefer the "lively" feel of a steel water bottle, although it can rust,
> especially when exposed to salt. So carry your sea water in a plastic bottle. Steel bottles
> fatigue with use, and eventually lose that "lively" feel.
>
> Aluminium is lighter, but an Aluminium water bottle has to be thicker to be as strong as a
> steel. This produces a less comfortable bottle. And of course, it suffers from metal fatigue
> over time. A tired aluminium bottle can break at an inopportune moment, and cause a crash.
>
> Many cyclists scoff at the alleged differences, and claim the difference in feel is entirely
> due to the colour of the bottle.
>
> Have I missed anything?

You forgot titanium bottles--they have the weight of a nice aluminum bottle and the lively feel of a
steel one. Let's not even get started on OCLV bottles......

 

[Pete Hickey]

In article <[email protected]>, mark freedman
<[email protected]> wrote:

>http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:rjsFFPqO3eAC:chealth.canoe.ca/health_news_detail.asp%3Fchannel-
>_id%3D44%26news_id%3D5829+health+single+use+plastic+bottle&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
>
> ============================================================
>
>Reusing your water bottle may be a health risk Jan. 26, 2003
>
>
>Provided by: Canadian Press
>
>Written by: JEN HORSEY
>
>
>People who frequently reuse water bottles may be risking their health. (CP Archive) TORONTO (CP) -
>While people may think they're doing a good deed for the environment when they reuse water bottles
>for anything from orange juice in a bagged lunch to a week's worth of water refills from the office
>water cooler, researchers say they could be risking their health.
>
>Dangerous bacteria and potentially toxic plastic compounds have been found in the types of water
>bottles typically reused in classrooms and workplaces countrywide.
>==================================================================
>
> Single-use soft-drink and water bottles are commonly made of a plastic called polyethylene
> terephthalate (PET) which, while considered safe for its intended use, was found to break down
> over time.
>
>"The longer you used it, the more stuff ended up in the water," said von Braun.

The longer you use it.... And that isn't true about 'regular' bike water bottles?

It also mentioned that the bacteria most likely came because the bottles were not washed.

"The bottles had for months not been washed out"

I'll continue to use my PET bottle.

--
--
LITTLE KNOWN FACT: Did you know that 90% of North Americans cannot taste the difference between
fried dog and fried cat?

 

[Tom Sherman]

mark freedman wrote:
>
> "peter" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > Thanks for the replies, just wanted to check there wasn't something dreadful I was not aware of.
> > I'm an old guy who rides slowly with frequent rest and sightseeing stops. Using a metal bottle
> > is not a problem for me as I wouldn't use it when riding, only when stopped. peter
>
> We've probably milked whether to use a metal water bottle or not to death.
>
> Time to start the "Steel versus Aluminium" thread.
>
> Many traditionalists prefer the "lively" feel of a steel water bottle, although it can rust,
> especially when exposed to salt. So carry your sea water in a plastic bottle. Steel bottles
> fatigue with use, and eventually lose that "lively" feel.
>
> Aluminium is lighter, but an Aluminium water bottle has to be thicker to be as strong as a
> steel. This produces a less comfortable bottle. And of course, it suffers from metal fatigue
> over time. A tired aluminium bottle can break at an inopportune moment, and cause a crash.
>
> Many cyclists scoff at the alleged differences, and claim the difference in feel is entirely
> due to the colour of the bottle.
>
> Have I missed anything?

The pros and cons of lugged and brazed steel bottles vs. welded steel bottles.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

 

[Bernie]

mark freedman wrote:

> "peter" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > Thanks for the replies, just wanted to check there wasn't something dreadful I was not aware of.
> > I'm an old guy who rides slowly with frequent rest and sightseeing stops. Using a metal bottle
> > is not a problem for me as I wouldn't use it when riding, only when stopped. peter
>
> We've probably milked whether to use a metal water bottle or not to death.
>
> Time to start the "Steel versus Aluminium" thread.
>
> Many traditionalists prefer the "lively" feel of a steel water bottle, although it can rust,
> especially when exposed to salt. So carry your sea water in a plastic bottle. Steel bottles
> fatigue with use, and eventually lose that "lively" feel.
>
> Aluminium is lighter, but an Aluminium water bottle has to be thicker to be as strong as a
> steel. This produces a less comfortable bottle. And of course, it suffers from metal fatigue
> over time. A tired aluminium bottle can break at an inopportune moment, and cause a crash.
>
> Many cyclists scoff at the alleged differences, and claim the difference in feel is entirely
> due to the colour of the bottle.
>
> Have I missed anything?

Steel bottles DEFINITELY bounce better than aluminum and being more "lively" are less likely to
break when dropped on the road. Also, the welds are usually more neat and attractive. Bernie

 

[Luigi De Guzman]

Bernie <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

>
> Steel bottles DEFINITELY bounce better than aluminum and being more "lively" are less likely to
> break when dropped on the road. Also, the welds are usually more neat and attractive. Bernie

They can also be lugged, very pretty.

Nobody has yet mentioned the possibilities for carbon-fiber.

-Luigi

 

[Bernie]

Luigi de Guzman wrote:

> Bernie <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> >
> > Steel bottles DEFINITELY bounce better than aluminum and being more "lively" are less likely to
> > break when dropped on the road. Also, the welds are usually more neat and attractive. Bernie
>
> They can also be lugged, very pretty.
>
> Nobody has yet mentioned the possibilities for carbon-fiber.
>
> -Luigi

Yes someone did. Of course, he's an outrageous techie upstart, not worth notice from traditionalists
who recognize the merit of the classics. Best regards, Bernie

 

[Van Bagnol]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (mark
freedman) wrote:

> "peter" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > Thanks for the replies, just wanted to check there wasn't something dreadful I was not aware of.
> > I'm an old guy who rides slowly with frequent rest and sightseeing stops. Using a metal bottle
> > is not a problem for me as I wouldn't use it when riding, only when stopped. peter
>
> We've probably milked whether to use a metal water bottle or not to death.

But we haven't discussed using metal milk bottles. That thread is still in its infancy.

Anyway, metal water bottles have been around for decades and have proven to be pretty rugged. I've
seen them in 1-quart and 2-quart capacities, and even come with a decorative fabric cover and a
little chain to keep the cap from getting lost. They're called canteens.

Van

--
Van Bagnol / v a n at wco dot com / c r l at bagnol dot com ...enjoys - Theatre / Windsurfing /
Skydiving / Mountain Biking ...feels - "Parang lumalakad ako sa loob ng paniginip" ...thinks - "An
Error is Not a Mistake ... Unless You Refuse to Correct It"