Methionine increases heart disease risk



"Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Juhana Harju" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> High dietary methionine increases the risk of heart disease according to
>> a
>> Finnish study. Meat is high in methionine, an amino acid.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis. 2006 Mar;16(2):113-20. Epub 2005 Nov 2.
>>
>> High dietary methionine intake increases the risk of acute coronary
>> events
>> in middle-aged men.
>>
>> Virtanen JK, Voutilainen S, Rissanen TH, Happonen P, Mursu J, Laukkanen
>> JA,
>> Poulsen H, Lakka TA, Salonen JT.
>>
>> Research Institute of Public Health, University of Kuopio, PO Box 1627,
>> 70211 Kuopio, Finland.
>>
>> BACKGROUND AND AIM: Homocysteine, a methionine metabolite, is suggested
>> to
>> be a risk factor for cardiovascular diseases (CVD). To date, the effects
>> of
>> dietary intake of methionine, the key amino acid in homocysteine
>> metabolism,
>> on CVD have not been studied. Our aim was to examine the effects of
>> dietary
>> methionine intake on the risk of acute coronary events. METHODS AND
>> RESULTS:
>> We examined the effects of dietary methionine intake, assessed with 4-d
>> food
>> record, on acute coronary events in a prospective cohort study consisting
>> of
>> 1981 coronary disease free men from eastern Finland, aged 42-60years at
>> baseline in 1984-89, in the Kuopio Ischaemic Heart Disease Risk Factor
>> (KIHD) Study. During an average follow-up time of 14.0years, 292 subjects
>> experienced an acute coronary event. In a Cox proportional hazards model
>> adjusting for age, examination years, BMI, urinary nicotine metabolites
>> and
>> protein intake (excluding methionine) the relative risks of acute
>> coronary
>> event in the three highest quarters of dietary methionine intake were
>> 1.31
>> (95% CI: 0.92, 1.86), 1.31 (95% CI: 0.88, 1.96) and 2.08 (95% CI: 1.31,
>> 3.29) as compared with the lowest quarter. Further adjustments did not
>> change the results. However, opposite association was observed with total
>> protein intake, which tended to decrease the risk. CONCLUSIONS: The main
>> finding of this study is that long-term, moderately high dietary
>> methionine
>> intake may increase the risk of acute coronary events in middle-aged
>> Finnish
>> men free of prior CHD. More prospective research is needed to confirm the
>> role of dietary methionine in the development of CVD, and whether its
>> effects are independent of homocysteine. PMID: 16487911
>>
>> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=16487911&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum
>>
>> --
>> Juhana
>
> Very, very weak. I'll continue to consume meat to my heart's content.

Good. I'm nominating you for a Darwin Award.
 
"George Cherry" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Joe the Aroma" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Juhana Harju" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> High dietary methionine increases the risk of heart disease according to
>>> a
>>> Finnish study. Meat is high in methionine, an amino acid.
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis. 2006 Mar;16(2):113-20. Epub 2005 Nov 2.
>>>
>>> High dietary methionine intake increases the risk of acute coronary
>>> events
>>> in middle-aged men.
>>>
>>> Virtanen JK, Voutilainen S, Rissanen TH, Happonen P, Mursu J, Laukkanen
>>> JA,
>>> Poulsen H, Lakka TA, Salonen JT.
>>>
>>> Research Institute of Public Health, University of Kuopio, PO Box 1627,
>>> 70211 Kuopio, Finland.
>>>
>>> BACKGROUND AND AIM: Homocysteine, a methionine metabolite, is suggested
>>> to
>>> be a risk factor for cardiovascular diseases (CVD). To date, the effects
>>> of
>>> dietary intake of methionine, the key amino acid in homocysteine
>>> metabolism,
>>> on CVD have not been studied. Our aim was to examine the effects of
>>> dietary
>>> methionine intake on the risk of acute coronary events. METHODS AND
>>> RESULTS:
>>> We examined the effects of dietary methionine intake, assessed with 4-d
>>> food
>>> record, on acute coronary events in a prospective cohort study
>>> consisting of
>>> 1981 coronary disease free men from eastern Finland, aged 42-60years at
>>> baseline in 1984-89, in the Kuopio Ischaemic Heart Disease Risk Factor
>>> (KIHD) Study. During an average follow-up time of 14.0years, 292
>>> subjects
>>> experienced an acute coronary event. In a Cox proportional hazards model
>>> adjusting for age, examination years, BMI, urinary nicotine metabolites
>>> and
>>> protein intake (excluding methionine) the relative risks of acute
>>> coronary
>>> event in the three highest quarters of dietary methionine intake were
>>> 1.31
>>> (95% CI: 0.92, 1.86), 1.31 (95% CI: 0.88, 1.96) and 2.08 (95% CI: 1.31,
>>> 3.29) as compared with the lowest quarter. Further adjustments did not
>>> change the results. However, opposite association was observed with
>>> total
>>> protein intake, which tended to decrease the risk. CONCLUSIONS: The main
>>> finding of this study is that long-term, moderately high dietary
>>> methionine
>>> intake may increase the risk of acute coronary events in middle-aged
>>> Finnish
>>> men free of prior CHD. More prospective research is needed to confirm
>>> the
>>> role of dietary methionine in the development of CVD, and whether its
>>> effects are independent of homocysteine. PMID: 16487911
>>>
>>> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=16487911&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum
>>>
>>> --
>>> Juhana
>>
>> Very, very weak. I'll continue to consume meat to my heart's content.
>
> Good. I'm nominating you for a Darwin Award.

Fine. I'll put my health up against your malnourished self any day.
 
Jim Chinnis wrote:

> I'm trying to get a copy. But I guess from the abstract one would conclude
> that eating foods with high ratios of protein to methionine is good. I guess
> that means more fruits and veggies and legumes and less meat, fish, and
> dairy. Maybe this will turn out to be a killer for the low-carb diet... This
> would create a challenge for me, since it's easier to keep weight off by
> watching carbs than by any other route I've tried.

Since some non-meat foods such as nuts are high in methionine and the
meats are close to equal in methionine per amount of protein, it will
probably be easier to add vitamin B6, B12, and folic acid to reduce the
amount of homocysteine in the blood.

And since the proteins high in methionine have a higher quality, less
protein is needed which may have other benefits.

--
Ron
 
"Ron Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote in part:

>
>Jim Chinnis wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to get a copy. But I guess from the abstract one would conclude
>> that eating foods with high ratios of protein to methionine is good. I guess
>> that means more fruits and veggies and legumes and less meat, fish, and
>> dairy. Maybe this will turn out to be a killer for the low-carb diet... This
>> would create a challenge for me, since it's easier to keep weight off by
>> watching carbs than by any other route I've tried.
>
>Since some non-meat foods such as nuts are high in methionine and the
>meats are close to equal in methionine per amount of protein, it will
>probably be easier to add vitamin B6, B12, and folic acid to reduce the
>amount of homocysteine in the blood.

Not according to the latest studies. They find a trend to worsening heart
disease from taking vitamin B6, B12, and folic acid. Homocysteine appears to
be a marker and not a cause.

>And since the proteins high in methionine have a higher quality, less
>protein is needed which may have other benefits.

But higher protein intake was associated with better outcomes.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
 
Jim Chinnis wrote:
: "Ron Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote in part:

:: Since some non-meat foods such as nuts are high in methionine and the
:: meats are close to equal in methionine per amount of protein, it will
:: probably be easier to add vitamin B6, B12, and folic acid to reduce
:: the amount of homocysteine in the blood.
:
: Not according to the latest studies. They find a trend to worsening
: heart disease from taking vitamin B6, B12, and folic acid.
: Homocysteine appears to be a marker and not a cause.

I agree with Jim.

:: And since the proteins high in methionine have a higher quality, less
:: protein is needed which may have other benefits.

Ron, I think that that has very little meaning if you look at the diet as
whole and not single sources of protein.

--
Juhana
 
Jim Chinnis wrote:
> "Ron Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote in part:

> >Jim Chinnis wrote:

> >> I'm trying to get a copy. But I guess from the abstract one would conclude
> >> that eating foods with high ratios of protein to methionine is good. I guess
> >> that means more fruits and veggies and legumes and less meat, fish, and
> >> dairy. Maybe this will turn out to be a killer for the low-carb diet... This
> >> would create a challenge for me, since it's easier to keep weight off by
> >> watching carbs than by any other route I've tried.

> >Since some non-meat foods such as nuts are high in methionine and the
> >meats are close to equal in methionine per amount of protein, it will
> >probably be easier to add vitamin B6, B12, and folic acid to reduce the
> >amount of homocysteine in the blood.

> Not according to the latest studies. They find a trend to worsening heart
> disease from taking vitamin B6, B12, and folic acid. Homocysteine appears to
> be a marker and not a cause.

Which studies are you referring to?

> >And since the proteins high in methionine have a higher quality, less
> >protein is needed which may have other benefits.

> But higher protein intake was associated with better outcomes.

Adding beans and peas, which are low in methionine, to the diet would
be one way to effectively reduce methionine intake (reducing meat and
grains a bit). Since methionine is an essential amino acid, it
shouldn't be reduced too much.

--
Ron
 
"Ron Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote in part:

>
>Jim Chinnis wrote:
>> "Ron Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote in part:
>
>> >Jim Chinnis wrote:
>
>> >> I'm trying to get a copy. But I guess from the abstract one would conclude
>> >> that eating foods with high ratios of protein to methionine is good. I guess
>> >> that means more fruits and veggies and legumes and less meat, fish, and
>> >> dairy. Maybe this will turn out to be a killer for the low-carb diet... This
>> >> would create a challenge for me, since it's easier to keep weight off by
>> >> watching carbs than by any other route I've tried.
>
>> >Since some non-meat foods such as nuts are high in methionine and the
>> >meats are close to equal in methionine per amount of protein, it will
>> >probably be easier to add vitamin B6, B12, and folic acid to reduce the
>> >amount of homocysteine in the blood.
>
>> Not according to the latest studies. They find a trend to worsening heart
>> disease from taking vitamin B6, B12, and folic acid. Homocysteine appears to
>> be a marker and not a cause.
>
>Which studies are you referring to?

I recall seeing three controlled studies that failed to find a benefit from
folate, with or without B6 and B12. Two were very recent, the HOPE-2 and
NORVIT trials:

The Heart Outcomes Prevention Evaluation (HOPE) 2 Investigators.
Homocysteine lowering with folic acid and B vitamins in vascular disease. N
Engl J Med 2006; DOI:10.1056/NEJMoa060900.

Bønaa KH, Njølstad I, Ueland PM, et al, for the NORVIT Trial Investigators.
Homocysteine lowering and cardiovascular events after acute myocardial
infarction. N Engl J Med 2006; DOI: 10.1056/NEJMoa055227.

>> >And since the proteins high in methionine have a higher quality, less
>> >protein is needed which may have other benefits.
>
>> But higher protein intake was associated with better outcomes.
>
>Adding beans and peas, which are low in methionine, to the diet would
>be one way to effectively reduce methionine intake (reducing meat and
>grains a bit). Since methionine is an essential amino acid, it
>shouldn't be reduced too much.

I'm just wondering what the full text of the subject methione paper says
about the tradeoff of protein (less methionine) and methionine. I still
don't have a copy. The journal isn't exactly a major one...
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA [email protected]
 
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:15:01 GMT, Jim Chinnis <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I recall seeing three controlled studies that failed to find a benefit from
>folate, with or without B6 and B12. Two were very recent, the HOPE-2 and
>NORVIT trials:
>
>The Heart Outcomes Prevention Evaluation (HOPE) 2 Investigators.
>Homocysteine lowering with folic acid and B vitamins in vascular disease. N
>Engl J Med 2006; DOI:10.1056/NEJMoa060900.
>
>Bønaa KH, Njølstad I, Ueland PM, et al, for the NORVIT Trial Investigators.
>Homocysteine lowering and cardiovascular events after acute myocardial
>infarction. N Engl J Med 2006; DOI: 10.1056/NEJMoa055227.
>

Anyone tried betain in addition. Reports on betaine show that
B-vitamins cannot exchange for betaine deficiency, neither can betaine
exchange B-vitamins completely. One report I saw mentioned about 60%
methyl groups from betaine and the rest through B-vitamins was an
optimum. Maybe as betaine fed as choline is the best.

A backside of betaine is that dimethylglycin break down to formate in
the end.
 
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 02:04:44 +0100, Alf Christophersen
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>A backside of betaine is that dimethylglycin break down to formate in
>the end.
>

Glycine, together with glutamine and (N-Acetyl-)cysteine, is a
glutathione precursor, though. I supplement with the latter two plus
trimethylglycine (betaine).
 
Alf Christophersen <[email protected]> wrote in part:

>On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 01:15:01 GMT, Jim Chinnis <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>I recall seeing three controlled studies that failed to find a benefit from
>>folate, with or without B6 and B12. Two were very recent, the HOPE-2 and
>>NORVIT trials:
>>
>>The Heart Outcomes Prevention Evaluation (HOPE) 2 Investigators.
>>Homocysteine lowering with folic acid and B vitamins in vascular disease. N
>>Engl J Med 2006; DOI:10.1056/NEJMoa060900.
>>
>>Bønaa KH, Njølstad I, Ueland PM, et al, for the NORVIT Trial Investigators.
>>Homocysteine lowering and cardiovascular events after acute myocardial
>>infarction. N Engl J Med 2006; DOI: 10.1056/NEJMoa055227.
>>
>
>Anyone tried betain in addition.

I did. I had no strokes or MIs...
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
 
Alf Christophersen wrote:

> Anyone tried betain in addition. Reports on betaine show that
> B-vitamins cannot exchange for betaine deficiency, neither can betaine
> exchange B-vitamins completely. One report I saw mentioned about 60%
> methyl groups from betaine and the rest through B-vitamins was an
> optimum. Maybe as betaine fed as choline is the best.

http://www.vitacost.com/science/hn/Supp/Betaine.htm gives some useful
information on betaine. One supplement is for use as a digestive aid
and other forms are more suitable for homocysteine reduction.

--
Ron
 
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:35:02 -0500, Just Cocky <[email protected]> wrote:

>Glycine, together with glutamine and (N-Acetyl-)cysteine, is a
>glutathione precursor, though. I supplement with the latter two plus
>trimethylglycine (betaine).

Dimethyl-glycine is not the same as glycine :)
I was talking about dimethyl-glycine (nreakdownproduct from betaine
(trimethylglycine) )

Dimethylglycine split off CH3 as formate and form sarcosine
(methylglycine). Sarcosine in turn split off amother formate ion and
form glycine. (But this is a minor route to glycine formation :) )
 
On 23 Mar 2006 06:53:15 -0800, "Ron Peterson" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>http://www.vitacost.com/science/hn/Supp/Betaine.htm gives some useful
>information on betaine. One supplement is for use as a digestive aid
>and other forms are more suitable for homocysteine reduction.

Wheat bran is the cheapest way. Data sheets tell 1g / 100 g bran :)
So, bran is good for your health. Also barley and oat is excellent
sources.
And beet root grown under salty condition (the reason why the stuff is
named betaine, from the plant first found in, beta vulgaris grown in
salty area. In normal soil almost devoid of it. It is used for keeping
water turgor at highest level plus as wettening agent of different
molecules inside cells.
 
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:10:21 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
<news:[email protected]> on
sci.med.cardiology,sci.med.nutrition :

> Jim, thanks for posting the data and your comment. They could have been more
> explicit but I guess your interpretation is correct. Still the results
> suggest that it is healthier to choose sources of protein which are low in
> methionine.

Not too low, though, as methionin is an essential amino acid.



> But to make it even more complicated, the healthiness of protein
> intake depends on the quality of carbs and fats, too. ;-)

A varied diet is the best choice, imho, to be pretty sure that you
don't get too much or too little of any nutrient.

X'Posted to: sci.med.cardiology,sci.med.nutrition
 
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:10:21 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
<news:[email protected]> on
sci.med.cardiology,sci.med.nutrition :

> Jim, thanks for posting the data and your comment. They could have been more
> explicit but I guess your interpretation is correct. Still the results
> suggest that it is healthier to choose sources of protein which are low in
> methionine.

Not too low, though, as methionine is an essential amino acid.



> But to make it even more complicated, the healthiness of protein
> intake depends on the quality of carbs and fats, too. ;-)

A varied diet is the best choice, imho, to be pretty sure that you
don't get too much or too little of any nutrient.

X'Posted to: sci.med.cardiology,sci.med.nutrition

X'Posted to: sci.med.cardiology,sci.med.nutrition
 
Enrico C wrote:
: On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:10:21 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
: <news:[email protected]> on
: sci.med.cardiology,sci.med.nutrition :
:
:: Jim, thanks for posting the data and your comment. They could have
:: been more explicit but I guess your interpretation is correct. Still
:: the results suggest that it is healthier to choose sources of
:: protein which are low in methionine.
:
: Not too low, though, as methionine is an essential amino acid.

In practise you can not become deficient of any amino acid if you just eat
enough calories. You can get all essential amino acids automatically from
any reasonable diet. The most limiting amino acid in a vegetarian diet is
lysine, as far as I know. But even that is provided sufficiently by a
balanced vegetarian diet. (I am not a vegetarian.)

--
Juhana
 
"Juhana Harju" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Enrico C wrote:
> : On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:10:21 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
> : <news:[email protected]> on
> : sci.med.cardiology,sci.med.nutrition :
> :
> :: Jim, thanks for posting the data and your comment. They could have
> :: been more explicit but I guess your interpretation is correct. Still
> :: the results suggest that it is healthier to choose sources of
> :: protein which are low in methionine.
> :
> : Not too low, though, as methionine is an essential amino acid.
>
> In practise you can not become deficient of any amino acid if you just eat
> enough calories. You can get all essential amino acids automatically from
> any reasonable diet. The most limiting amino acid in a vegetarian diet is
> lysine, as far as I know. But even that is provided sufficiently by a
> balanced vegetarian diet. (I am not a vegetarian.)

It's not difficult at all to get this right. Lysine is lower in grains, but either
legumes (beans, lentils, etc) or dairy, or both (add yogurt) fixes this
completely.

B12 can be a vegan issue, but the store are worth five years...

The real problem with vegetarian diets is non-vegetarians. Something
to do with denial or guilt or stupidity. Either that or they just can't cook
creatively!

Chypho...
 
"Neryl Chyphes" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Juhana Harju" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> Enrico C wrote:
>> : On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:10:21 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
>> : <news:[email protected]> on
>> : sci.med.cardiology,sci.med.nutrition :
>> :
>> :: Jim, thanks for posting the data and your comment. They could have
>> :: been more explicit but I guess your interpretation is correct. Still
>> :: the results suggest that it is healthier to choose sources of
>> :: protein which are low in methionine.
>> :
>> : Not too low, though, as methionine is an essential amino acid.
>>
>> In practise you can not become deficient of any amino acid if you just eat
>> enough calories. You can get all essential amino acids automatically from
>> any reasonable diet. The most limiting amino acid in a vegetarian diet is
>> lysine, as far as I know. But even that is provided sufficiently by a
>> balanced vegetarian diet. (I am not a vegetarian.)
>
> It's not difficult at all to get this right. Lysine is lower in grains, but either
> legumes (beans, lentils, etc) or dairy, or both (add yogurt) fixes this
> completely.
>
> B12 can be a vegan issue, but the store are worth five years...
>
> The real problem with vegetarian diets is non-vegetarians. Something
> to do with denial or guilt or stupidity. Either that or they just can't cook
> creatively!

I did make a mistake once of living with a protein intake (well balanced) of
about 30 gm/day. This is not enough (well, not for me). You will get colds
and slow recovery if you try this. But 50 gm/day (0.8 gm/Kg in my case
at the time) was fine.

Chypho...
 
Neryl Chyphes wrote:
: "Juhana Harju" <[email protected]> wrote in message
: news:[email protected]...
:: Enrico C wrote:
::: On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:10:21 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
::: <news:[email protected]> on
::: sci.med.cardiology,sci.med.nutrition :
:::
:::: Jim, thanks for posting the data and your comment. They could have
:::: been more explicit but I guess your interpretation is correct.
:::: Still the results suggest that it is healthier to choose sources of
:::: protein which are low in methionine.
:::
::: Not too low, though, as methionine is an essential amino acid.
::
:: In practise you can not become deficient of any amino acid if you
:: just eat enough calories. You can get all essential amino acids
:: automatically from any reasonable diet. The most limiting amino acid
:: in a vegetarian diet is lysine, as far as I know. But even that is
:: provided sufficiently by a balanced vegetarian diet. (I am not a
:: vegetarian.)
:
: It's not difficult at all to get this right. Lysine is lower in
: grains, but either legumes (beans, lentils, etc) or dairy, or both
: (add yogurt) fixes this completely.

I know.

: B12 can be a vegan issue, but the store are worth five years...

It can be an issue for lactovegetarians also as they have more frequently
suboptimal B12 values than meat eaters. Not to mention vitamin D...

--
Juhana
 
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:10:21 +0300, "Juhana Harju"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Jim, thanks for posting the data and your comment. They could have been more
>explicit but I guess your interpretation is correct. Still the results
>suggest that it is healthier to choose sources of protein which are low in
>methionine. But to make it even more complicated, the healthiness of protein
>intake depends on the quality of carbs and fats, too. ;-)

But, if so, cysteine should exchange the methionine. To cut down both
sulphur amino acids are not a good idea because it will affect GSH
status dramatically. And in turn both anti-oxidative defense and
different systems in the immunological system may fail.

(Eg. the feedback mechanism of taurine chloramine reacting with
IKappaB and then hinder breakdown of IKappaB which otherwise will
release active NFKappaB and thus generate more myeloperoxidase ,and
GSH based detoxifying of hypochlorite from myeloperoxidase)
 
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