Michelin Axial Carbon: low max PSI?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Morgan Fletcher, Mar 7, 2003.

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  1. I recently bought some new tires for my fast training / racing wheels. I thought the Michelin Axial
    Carbons would be good, durable Michelins. I've ridden various Michelins before and I liked the ride
    and grip, but didn't like how easily they cut. So the Carbon's advertized greater durability made it
    sound like a good choice.

    I got the 700x25 size because I'm a big, heavy rider and I like the fatter tires.

    What surprised me is that the tire is rated for a maximum PSI of 102. That is really low. I was
    going to use them for a time trial, but stuck with some heavy wire-bead Continentals I've got
    because they at least have a max
    psi of 120. I run most of my tires at 120psi. Most are 700x23 or 700x25.

    I'd be concerned about pinch flats with a 102psi tire. I asked them what was the deal, via their
    "contact us" web page link and this was the reply I got:

    Our tires at 102 psi will give you the same or better rolling resistance of any competitor tire
    at 125 psi.

    Constructions and compounds utilized in our tires can allow them to accomplish this.

    Hm.

    I can see how, maybe if the carbon belt was not very elastic, a high pressure might cause it to
    tear or separate. (???) But otherwise I don't see the reasoning for such a low pressure rating.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it offers high rolling resistance at 102psi, wouldn't it be even
    higher at 120psi?

    Haven't ridden them yet, might return them.

    Morgan
     
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  2. R J Peterson

    R J Peterson Guest

    I have 700X25 Axial Pros (105 PSI amx) and cannot tell the difference between these and my
    Continental Grand Prix tires (700X23 -- 120 PSI). I rather like the 25s -- they roll wonderfully and
    are "comfy," as you suggest. If I were you I'd just try them

    Oh, I'm 200lbs and have had NO problems with the 105 tire pressure.

    "Morgan Fletcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I recently bought some new tires for my fast training / racing wheels. I thought the Michelin
    > Axial Carbons would be good, durable Michelins. I've ridden various Michelins before and I liked
    > the ride and grip, but didn't like how easily they cut. So the Carbon's advertized greater
    > durability made it sound like a good choice.
    >
    > I got the 700x25 size because I'm a big, heavy rider and I like the fatter tires.
    >
    > What surprised me is that the tire is rated for a maximum PSI of 102. That is really low. I was
    > going to use them for a time trial, but stuck with some heavy wire-bead Continentals I've got
    > because they at least have a
    max
    > psi of 120. I run most of my tires at 120psi. Most are 700x23 or 700x25.
    >
    > I'd be concerned about pinch flats with a 102psi tire. I asked them what was the deal, via their
    > "contact us" web page link and this was the reply
    I
    > got:
    >
    > Our tires at 102 psi will give you the same or better rolling resistance of any competitor tire
    > at 125 psi.
    >
    > Constructions and compounds utilized in our tires can allow them to accomplish this.
    >
    > Hm.
    >
    > I can see how, maybe if the carbon belt was not very elastic, a high pressure might cause it to
    > tear or separate. (???) But otherwise I don't see the reasoning for such a low pressure rating.
    > Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it offers high rolling resistance at 102psi, wouldn't it be even
    > higher at 120psi?
    >
    > Haven't ridden them yet, might return them.
    >
    > Morgan
     
  3. R. J. Peterson wrote:

    > I have 700X25 Axial Pros (105 PSI amx) and cannot tell the difference between these and my
    > Continental Grand Prix tires (700X23 -- 120 PSI). I rather like the 25s -- they roll wonderfully
    > and are "comfy," as you suggest. If I were you I'd just try them

    . . . and if you were me, you'd inflate them to about 110 and not worry about the max rating.

    --
    Benjamin Lewis

    A small, but vocal, contingent even argues that tin is superior, but they are held by most to be the
    lunatic fringe of Foil Deflector Beanie science.
     
  4. Jay Beattie

    Jay Beattie Guest

    "Morgan Fletcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I recently bought some new tires for my fast training / racing wheels.
    I
    > thought the Michelin Axial Carbons would be good, durable Michelins.
    I've
    > ridden various Michelins before and I liked the ride and grip, but
    didn't
    > like how easily they cut. So the Carbon's advertized greater
    durability
    > made it sound like a good choice.
    >
    > I got the 700x25 size because I'm a big, heavy rider and I like the
    fatter
    > tires.
    >
    > What surprised me is that the tire is rated for a maximum PSI of 102.
    That
    > is really low. I was going to use them for a time trial, but stuck
    with
    > some heavy wire-bead Continentals I've got because they at least have
    a max
    > psi of 120. I run most of my tires at 120psi. Most are 700x23 or
    700x25.
    >
    > I'd be concerned about pinch flats with a 102psi tire. I asked them
    what
    > was the deal, via their "contact us" web page link and this was the
    reply I
    > got:
    >
    > Our tires at 102 psi will give you the same or better rolling
    resistance
    > of any competitor tire at 125 psi.
    >
    > Constructions and compounds utilized in our tires can allow them to accomplish this.
    >
    > Hm.
    >
    > I can see how, maybe if the carbon belt was not very elastic, a high pressure might cause it to
    > tear or separate. (???) But otherwise I
    don't
    > see the reasoning for such a low pressure rating. Correct me if I'm
    wrong,
    > but if it offers high rolling resistance at 102psi, wouldn't it be
    even
    > higher at 120psi?
    >
    > Haven't ridden them yet, might return them.

    I attempted to mount a pair of these on my racing bike, and the tires were so tall that they did not
    clear the underside of my rear brake caliper and barely cleared the underside of the fork crown.
    This is an ancient Cannondale with tight clearances, but other 25mm tires (e.g. Avocets) fit fine. I
    also found that even when over-inflated (110lbs or so), they were too soft for my tastes. I am
    225lbs, climb out of the sa ddle, and prefer a solid feeling tire. They also were not as wonderful
    in the rain as I had hoped. These tires are now on my touring bike. My all-around favorite tire for
    wet weather grip and road feel is still the discontinued Michelin SupercompHD. The Avocet is
    probably number two -- both in 23mm. I wouldn't use a 25mm for a time trial because those that I
    have tried felt sluggish, but YMMV.-- Jay Beattie.
     
  5. Ken

    Ken Guest

    Morgan Fletcher <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
    > What surprised me is that the tire is rated for a maximum PSI of 102. That is really low.

    Sheldon Brown's web site says road tire pressure ratings are mostly generated by lawyers and
    marketeers, not engineers and scientists. Take the ratings with a grain of salt and use trial and
    error to find the best pressure for yourself.

    Ken
     
  6. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "Jay Beattie" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Morgan Fletcher" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > I recently bought some new tires for my fast training / racing wheels.
    > I
    > > thought the Michelin Axial Carbons would be good, durable Michelins.
    > I've
    > > ridden various Michelins before and I liked the ride and grip, but
    > didn't
    > > like how easily they cut. So the Carbon's advertized greater
    > durability
    > > made it sound like a good choice.
    > >
    > > I got the 700x25 size because I'm a big, heavy rider and I like the
    > fatter
    > > tires.
    > >
    > > What surprised me is that the tire is rated for a maximum PSI of 102.
    > That
    > > is really low. I was going to use them for a time trial, but stuck
    > with
    > > some heavy wire-bead Continentals I've got because they at least have
    > a max
    > > psi of 120. I run most of my tires at 120psi. Most are 700x23 or
    > 700x25.
    > >
    > > I'd be concerned about pinch flats with a 102psi tire. I asked them
    > what
    > > was the deal, via their "contact us" web page link and this was the
    > reply I
    > > got:
    > >
    > > Our tires at 102 psi will give you the same or better rolling
    > resistance
    > > of any competitor tire at 125 psi.
    > >
    > > Constructions and compounds utilized in our tires can allow them to accomplish this.
    > >
    > > Hm.
    > >
    > > I can see how, maybe if the carbon belt was not very elastic, a high pressure might cause it to
    > > tear or separate. (???) But otherwise I
    > don't
    > > see the reasoning for such a low pressure rating. Correct me if I'm
    > wrong,
    > > but if it offers high rolling resistance at 102psi, wouldn't it be
    > even
    > > higher at 120psi?
    > >
    > > Haven't ridden them yet, might return them.
    >
    > I attempted to mount a pair of these on my racing bike, and the tires were so tall that they did
    > not clear the underside of my rear brake caliper and barely cleared the underside of the fork
    > crown. This is an ancient Cannondale with tight clearances, but other 25mm tires (e.g. Avocets)
    > fit fine. I also found that even when over-inflated (110lbs or so), they were too soft for my
    > tastes. I am 225lbs, climb out of the sa ddle, and prefer a solid feeling tire. They also were not
    > as wonderful in the rain as I had hoped. These tires are now on my touring bike. My all-around
    > favorite tire for wet weather grip and road feel is still the discontinued Michelin SupercompHD.
    > The Avocet is probably number two -- both in 23mm. I wouldn't use a 25mm for a time trial because
    > those that I have tried felt sluggish, but YMMV.-- Jay Beattie.
    >
    >

    Mmmmm, Supercomps! Still one of my favorite tires. Not as supple as the Grand Prix tires I was
    running for a while, but still a great tire.

    I've been training on the Prestige tires lately. For $20 at PBS (the evil empire itself!) they're
    hard to beat.

    Mike

    Mike
     
  7. Harris

    Harris Guest

    "Morgan Fletcher" wrote:

    > thought the Michelin Axial Carbons would be good

    > I got the 700x25 size because I'm a big, heavy rider and I like the fatter tires.
    >
    > What surprised me is that the tire is rated for a maximum PSI of 102. That is really low. I was
    > going to use them for a time trial, but stuck with some heavy wire-bead Continentals I've got
    > because they at least have a
    max
    > psi of 120. I run most of my tires at 120psi. Most are 700x23 or 700x25.
    >
    > I'd be concerned about pinch flats with a 102psi tire.

    Wider tires have more air volume and can be run at slightly lower pressure without increasing the
    risk of pinch flats. You will find the the skinniest tires have the highest max pressure ratings,
    and that the recommended pressures decrease with increasing width.

    Heavier riders should generally run more than the max pressure stamped on the sidewall, while
    lighter riders should run less. See the link below:

    http://www.precisiontandems.com/photos_files/tirechart.jpg

    Art Harris
     
  8. Andy M-S

    Andy M-S Guest

    "Jay Beattie" <[email protected]> wrote in message ...message sliced...
    > I attempted to mount a pair of these on my racing bike, and the tires were so tall that they did
    > not clear the underside of my rear brake caliper and barely cleared the underside of the fork
    > crown. This is an ancient Cannondale with tight clearances, but other 25mm tires (e.g. Avocets)
    > fit fine. I also found that even when over-inflated (110lbs or so), they were too soft for my
    > tastes. I am 225lbs, climb out of the sa ddle, and prefer a solid feeling tire. They also were not
    > as wonderful in the rain as I had hoped. These tires are now on my touring bike. My all-around
    > favorite tire for wet weather grip and road feel is still the discontinued Michelin SupercompHD.
    > The Avocet is probably number two -- both in 23mm. I wouldn't use a 25mm for a time trial because
    > those that I have tried felt sluggish, but YMMV.-- Jay Beattie.

    You should be aware that both Avocet and IRC tires (Avocets are made in the IRC plant) are
    considerably smaller than their measurements. I have a set of IRC 700x25 tires that are
    significantly smaller than any 700x23s I've ever seen.

    They do feel solid.

    Personally, I like the Axial Carbon, 700x23, inflated to the top of its range (115 PSI). I've never
    had a problem with 'em, and I'm sitting at 190.
     
  9. Harris

    Harris Guest

    "Andy M-S" wrote:

    > You should be aware that both Avocet and IRC tires (Avocets are made in the IRC plant) are
    > considerably smaller than their measurements. I have a set of IRC 700x25 tires that are
    > significantly smaller than any 700x23s I've ever seen.
    >
    > They do feel solid.

    The new Avocets ("Carbon 12" or whatever) ARE labelled accurately. You're correct about the IRCs and
    old Avocets. All are good tires, and the IRCs are a great bargain.

    Art Harris
     
  10. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "Harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Andy M-S" wrote:
    >
    > > You should be aware that both Avocet and IRC tires (Avocets are made in the IRC plant) are
    > > considerably smaller than their measurements. I have a set of IRC 700x25 tires that are
    > > significantly smaller than any 700x23s I've ever seen.
    > >
    > > They do feel solid.
    >
    > The new Avocets ("Carbon 12" or whatever) ARE labelled accurately. You're correct about the IRCs
    > and old Avocets. All are good tires, and the IRCs
    are
    > a great bargain.
    >

    Not quite, unfortunately. They are still somewhat undersized. I measured the 25 to be barely 24mm,
    and the 28 at about 27, and the 32 to be about
    30mm. That's too bad, 'cause my preferred size is the old 28, which measures pretty much like a 25
    Axial Pro ... right at 26mm.

    Robin Hubert
     
  11. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Andy M-S" wrote:
    > >
    > > > You should be aware that both Avocet and IRC tires (Avocets are made in the IRC plant) are
    > > > considerably smaller than their measurements. I have a set of IRC 700x25 tires that are
    > > > significantly smaller than any 700x23s I've ever seen.
    > > >
    > > > They do feel solid.
    > >
    > > The new Avocets ("Carbon 12" or whatever) ARE labelled accurately.
    You're
    > > correct about the IRCs and old Avocets. All are good tires, and the IRCs
    > are
    > > a great bargain.
    > >
    >
    > Not quite, unfortunately. They are still somewhat undersized. I measured the 25 to be barely 24mm,
    > and the 28 at about 27, and the 32 to be about
    > 30mm. That's too bad, 'cause my preferred size is the old 28, which measures pretty much like a
    > 25 Axial Pro ... right at 26mm.
    >
    > Robin Hubert
    >
    I recently picked up 3 Avocet Criteriums labeled x23c. Look a lot like they're 21mm or so to me. I
    haven't measured them, but they are noticeably thinner than my Michelins.

    Hey, since y'all ride these tires, how do they wear, corner, etc.?? I mounted them on my Cosmic
    (crit wheels) and haven't ridden them yet.

    Mike
     
  12. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    A great tire but they will not wear long and they cut easilly too. Not a regular use tire. They are
    lightweight.

    On Sun, 09 Mar 2003 04:00:45 GMT, "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Hey, since y'all ride these tires, how do they wear, corner, etc.?? I mounted them on my Cosmic
    >(crit wheels) and haven't ridden them yet.
     
  13. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:N%[email protected]...
    >
    > "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Harris" <n2ah[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > "Andy M-S" wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > You should be aware that both Avocet and IRC tires (Avocets are made in the IRC plant) are
    > > > > considerably smaller than their measurements.
    I
    > > > > have a set of IRC 700x25 tires that are significantly smaller than
    any
    > > > > 700x23s I've ever seen.
    > > > >
    > > > > They do feel solid.
    > > >
    > > > The new Avocets ("Carbon 12" or whatever) ARE labelled accurately.
    > You're
    > > > correct about the IRCs and old Avocets. All are good tires, and the
    IRCs
    > > are
    > > > a great bargain.
    > > >
    > >
    > > Not quite, unfortunately. They are still somewhat undersized. I
    measured
    > > the 25 to be barely 24mm, and the 28 at about 27, and the 32 to be about
    > > 30mm. That's too bad, 'cause my preferred size is the old 28, which measures pretty much like a
    > > 25 Axial Pro ... right at 26mm.
    > >
    > > Robin Hubert
    > >
    > I recently picked up 3 Avocet Criteriums labeled x23c. Look a lot like they're 21mm or so to me. I
    > haven't measured them, but they are
    noticeably
    > thinner than my Michelins.

    All black? The old tan sidewall tires were even more undersized.

    > Hey, since y'all ride these tires, how do they wear, corner, etc.?? I mounted them on my Cosmic
    > (crit wheels) and haven't ridden them yet.

    Mine wear as well or better than any tire I've used. Some claim they get twice the wear of most
    silica based tires.

    Cornering is as good or better than any tire.

    Robin Hubert
     
  14. "R J Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I have 700X25 Axial Pros (105 PSI amx) and cannot tell the
    difference
    > between these and my Continental Grand Prix tires (700X23 -- 120
    PSI). I
    > rather like the 25s -- they roll wonderfully and are "comfy," as you suggest.

    If you can't tell the different why do you like the Michelins?

    JT

    --
    *******************************************
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