Michelin Carbons vs Pro2Race ?

[41]

[email protected] wrote:
> George King writes:
>
> >> I am using several Ultra 2000 tires, that were given to me, for the
> >> tire blow-off tests that I me ntioned months ago.
>
> What is it with your newsreader that puts spaces into wor ds, as in
> "me ntioned"?

I have no idea as for the details, but this is just one of the many
artefacts that Google (web-based interface) introduces, another notable
one being a quasi-random extra character at the end (confusingly,
sometimes a blank). I presume it's some incompatibility with my
browser.



> These are "new" brown sidewall tires, the kind local shops are selling
> right now. I haven't seen the black version here. Anyway, others who
> use them have not yet complained about fraying of the casing or
> chafing strip and we ride lots of rough unpaved roads with loose RR
> Ballast rock all over.

Glad to hear that they are still making brown, apparently (unless this
is end-of-stock). Conti only has black on their website. I dislike all
black.
ƒ

 

[[email protected]]

George King writes:

>> I am using several Ultra 2000 tires, that were given to me, for the
>> tire blow-off tests that I mentioned months ago.

> Are these the "old" Ultra 2K (brown sidewall), or the "new" model
> (black sidewall)? I suppose they are all 25mm, wire bead? Any
> comments on them? All are 57tpi nylon casing tires, by the
> way. Michelin Carbon is 127tpi but with an extra ply bead to bead.

>> From simply handling them, I would say that the Michelin Carbons
>> use a higher durometer rubber. They also give it a slightly
>> stippled/matte finish.

> For what it's worth, supposedly the "unravelling sidewall" problem
> with Conti's was actually unravelling of the cotton chafing strip,
> which occurred under certain unspecified weather condtions
> (according to Conti). The new black-walled versions are supposed to
> have fixed that. Not sure if any of the later brown ones also did.

Oops! I just looked at the Continental web site and there is no more
Ultra 2000, black or brown. It seems to have been replaced by an all
black Ultra Gatorskin.

http://tinyurl.com/yv0e

Jobst Brandt

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...

>The Pro2Race seems to ride a bit nicer than the Carbon. However, like
>Noel I have had some issues with the durability of the sidewalls on the
>Pro2Race. The Carbons are very durable. Since Michelin introduced the
>new "Krylion Carbon", you can find the original Carbons on closeout all
>over the place (although it might be tougher to find 25mm). I wish
>Michelin hadn't gotten rid of the Axial Pro. In my opinion, that was
>just about the perfect tire.


I'm still partial to the Super Comp HD. A great all around tire at reasonable
prices. Tire prices have gone ballistic for no apparent reason.
---------------
Alex

 

[[email protected]]

On 8 May 2006 09:01:28 -0700, "41" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:

>> What is it with your newsreader that puts spaces into wor ds, as in
>> "me ntioned"?
>
>I have no idea as for the details, but this is just one of the many
>artefacts that Google (web-based interface) introduces, another notable
>one being a quasi-random extra character at the end (confusingly,
>sometimes a blank). I presume it's some incompatibility with my
>browser.

[snip to random character at end]

>ƒ

Dear 41 and Jobst,

Probably Macintosh Mozilla 4.7 is the culprit.

Here's 41, who has the random end character in Macintosh
Mozilla 4.7:

User-Agent: G2/0.2
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.7 (Macintosh; U;
PPC),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)

Here's Ozark, who doesn't have in Windows Mozilla Mozilla
4.0:

User-Agent: G2/0.2
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows
98; Win 9x 4.90; YPC 3.0.0),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)

Here's Joseph Santaniello, who doesn't have it in Macintosh
Mozilla 5.0:

User-Agent: G2/0.2
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X;
en) AppleWebKit/417.9 (KHTML, like Gecko)
Safari/417.8,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)

I could swear that I noticed the odd end-character in
someone else's posts, but I can't figure out how to search
for a random end character.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[BCDrums]

Alex Rodriguez wrote:

>
> I'm still partial to the Super Comp HD. A great all around tire at reasonable
> prices.

I have fond memories of that tire. Are they still available?

BC

 

[41]

[email protected] wrote:

> Oops! I just looked at the Cont inental web site and there is no more
> Ultra 2000, black or brown. It seems to have been replaced by an all
> black Ultra Gatorskin.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yv0e

Looks like 2005 all-black was the end of the line. Replacement is
divided into two: the Ultra Gatorskin and Ultra Race
<http://tinyurl.com/qpj9b>. Ultra Race would be essentially an improved
Ultra 2000 (60tpi vs 57), apart from being all black, only available in
two widths, and, alas, only with Kevlar puncture belt.

Try IRC Triathlon, their-brand version of the Avocet Road. It may now
only be available all black and with Kevlar puncture belt (aka
Triathlon Duro), not sure.

'

 

[bfd]

"41" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>
> Try IRC Triathlon, their-brand version of the Avocet Road. It may now
> only be available all black and with Kevlar puncture belt (aka
> Triathlon Duro), not sure.
>
I wonder if these "all black" IRC Triathlon tires are now made in Korea,
like the new "carbon 12" Avocet Fasgrips.

 

[Art Harris]

41 wrote:
> Try IRC Triathlon, their-brand version of the Avocet Road. It may now
> only be available all black and with Kevlar puncture belt (aka
> Triathlon Duro), not sure.

The IRC Road Winner corresponds to the Avocet Road (both 25 mm actual
width). The Triathlon is 23 mm (although marked 700 x 25).

The IRC Road Winner is still available with tan sidewalls, wire bead,
and kevlar belt from Nashbar.

http://tinyurl.com/owrrc

Art Harris

 

[41]

Art Harris wrote:
> 41 wrote:
> > Try IRC Triathlon, their-brand version of the Avocet Road. It may now
> > only be available all black and with Kevlar puncture belt (aka
> > Triathlon Duro), not sure.
>
> The IRC Road Winner corresponds to the Avocet R oad (both 25 mm actual
> width). The Triathlon is 23 mm (although marked 700 x 25).

I don't think that's correct, because the Triathlon is 127tpi like the
Avocet Road, while the Road Winner is 66tpi like the Duro and Duro
Plus. I am sure I've seen other posters who've measured say they are
true 25mm and 28mm respectively.


> The IRC Road Winner is still available with tan sidewalls, wire bead,
> and kevlar belt from Nashbar.

Kevlar belt, that's the problem. Energy sucking good-for-nothing
layabout.


 

[Art Harris]

41 wrote:
> Art Harris wrote:
> > The IRC Road Winner corresponds to the Avocet R oad (both 25 mm actual
> > width). The Triathlon is 23 mm (although marked 700 x 25).
>
> I don't think that's correct, because the Triathlon is 127tpi like the
> Avocet Road, while the Road Winner is 66tpi like the Duro and Duro
> Plus. I am sure I've seen other posters who've measured say they are
> true 25mm and 28mm respectively.

The old tan sidewall Avocet Road had 66 tpi. I've used the old (tan)
Avocet Road as well as the IRC Road Winner and Triathlon. The Road
Winner marked 700 x 28 is definitely the same width as the Avocet Road
(25 mm). The Triathlon is narrower (23 mm).

"Duro" only refers to the kevlar belt.

> > The IRC Road Winner is still available with tan sidewalls, wire bead,
> > and kevlar belt from Nashbar.
>
> Kevlar belt, that's the problem. Energy sucking good-for-nothing
> layabout.

I doubt you could tell the difference in a blind test. I don't care
much about the belt one way or the other, but I must say I get very few
flats. (Oops, now I've jinxed myself.)

Art Harris

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>Alex Rodriguez wrote:

>> I'm still partial to the Super Comp HD. A great all around tire at
reasonable
>> prices.
>
>I have fond memories of that tire. Are they still available?

They were discontinued a long time ago. You might find someone who had a
stash, but they are probably keeping them for themselves.
---------------
Alex

 

[41]

Art Harris wrote:
> 41 wrote:
> > Art Harris wrote:
> > > The IRC Road Winner corresponds to the Avocet R oad (both 25 mm actual
> > > width). The Triathlon is 23 mm (although marked 700 x 25).
> >
> > I don't think that's correct, because the Triathlon is 127tpi like the
> > Avocet Road, while the Road Winner is 66tpi like the Duro and Duro
> > Plus. I am sure I've seen other posters who've measured say they are
> > true 25mm and 28mm respectively.
>
> The old tan sidewall Avocet Road had 66 tpi. I've used the old (tan)
> Avocet Road as well as the IRC Road Winner and Triathlon. The Road
> Winner marked 700 x 28 is definitely the same width as the Avocet Road
> (25 mm). The Triathlon is narrower (23 mm).
>
> "Duro" only refers to the kevlar belt.

Not correct. The confusion arises because (a) the two lines are not
exactly comparable; and (b) Avocet went through a labelling change.
IRC's website lists only with Kevlar belt (not bead), so for
comparision below I have only the Avocet models with Kevlar belt
(subtract 20g if you want weights without the Kevlar puncture belt),
i.e. 'K' designation. Note that "Duro" in Avocet terminology is NOT
the same as "Duro" in IRC terminology. For IRC it means a Kevlar belt,
for Avocet it means heavier duty. Using today's terminology:

Avocete Criterium (K): 23mm, 127tpi, 255g
Avocet Road (K): 25mm, 127 tpi, 275g
Avocet Duro (K): 28mm, 66tpi, 320g
Avocet Duro Plus (K): 32mm, 66tpi, 410g.

IRC Triatholon Duro: 25mm nominal, 127tpi, 245g
IRC Road Winner II Duro: 28mm nominal, 66tpi, 305g.

So, the triathlon may correspond more to the Criterium, as you suggest
(I believe a 10-15g difference can be ascribed to the very slight tread
pattern on the IRCs, which is essentially a slight scoring of the
tread). BUT the Road Winner II clearly corresponds to the Avocet Duro,
with 15g going down to the tread pattern difference. Looks like that
Avocet Road really was unique. Just like the Duro Plus, a truly
exceptional tire.

It is possible that the Road Winner sizing does not correspond to that
of the Road Winner II, but I doubt it.


> > Kevlar belt, that's the problem. Energy sucking good-for-nothing
> > layabout.
>
> I doubt you could tell the difference in a blind tes t.

People don't seem to be able to tell the difference between 127tpi and
57tpi (Conti Ultra 2000) either.