Michelin Pro Race Violet



J

Jay Beattie

Guest
So, it looks like PerformNashGo is selling the Michelin Pro Race
for under $25 in violet. Any reports on whether one color is more
slippery than another or conjecture on why the violet tires are
priced so low? The literature indicates that they all have
"silicum" tread compound, so I assume that the gray/black tires
(which are so popular and not on sale) have the same tread
compound as the colored tires and that all the tires should have
similar traction regardless of color. Let me know if I am
missing something here. -- Jay Beattie.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Jay Beattie <[email protected]> wrote:
>So, it looks like PerformNashGo is selling the Michelin Pro Race
>for under $25 in violet. Any reports on whether one color is more
>slippery than another or conjecture on why the violet tires are
>priced so low?


Michelin Pro Race has been discontinued. The new tire is called
"Pro Race 2". Vendors are closing out their stock of the old tires
and certain colors are less popular than others.
 
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:10:21 -0800, "Jay Beattie"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>So, it looks like PerformNashGo is selling the Michelin Pro Race
>for under $25 in violet. Any reports on whether one color is more
>slippery than another or conjecture on why the violet tires are
>priced so low? The literature indicates that they all have
>"silicum" tread compound, so I assume that the gray/black tires
>(which are so popular and not on sale) have the same tread
>compound as the colored tires and that all the tires should have
>similar traction regardless of color. Let me know if I am
>missing something here. -- Jay Beattie.


Dear Jay,

A shrinking violet tire may naturally have shrinking prices?

As I understand it, adding carbon black to rubber improves
wear characteristics and oxidation problems, but also
reduces traction.

Adding anything else (such as violet or other colors to
compliment your ensemble) reduces traction further.

Carl Fogel
 
Carl Fogel writes:

>> So, it looks like PerformNashGo is selling the Michelin Pro Race
>> for under $25 in violet. Any reports on whether one color is more
>> slippery than another or conjecture on why the violet tires are
>> priced so low? The literature indicates that they all have
>> "silicum" tread compound, so I assume that the gray/black tires
>> (which are so popular and not on sale) have the same tread compound
>> as the colored tires and that all the tires should have similar
>> traction regardless of color. Let me know if I am missing
>> something here.


> A shrinking violet tire may naturally have shrinking prices?


> As I understand it, adding carbon black to rubber improves wear
> characteristics and oxidation problems, but also reduces traction.


Carbon improves wet traction and wear and has higher rolling
resistance than the same rubber without carbon, and without other
fillers.

> Adding anything else (such as violet or other colors to compliment
> your ensemble) reduces traction further.


Silicon fiber enables coloring tires because it has a neutral color,
but it doesn't improve wet traction and wear durability as much as
carbon. That's why the auto industry, that developed the idea of
colored tires, isn't using them.

Jobst Brandt
[email protected]
 
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Silicon fiber enables coloring tires because it has a neutral color,
>but it doesn't improve wet traction and wear durability as much as
>carbon. That's why the auto industry, that developed the idea of
>colored tires, isn't using them.


The range of wear and traction characteristic in commercial
automobile tires is so great that the coloring would have to
make tires that really, really suck, or someone would be
trying to market them.

--Blair
"Maybe they're making more money
selling pink rubber at $100/pound
to bikies..."
 
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:10:21 -0800, "Jay Beattie" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>So, it looks like PerformNashGo is selling the Michelin Pro Race
>for under $25 in violet. Any reports on whether one color is more
>slippery than another or conjecture on why the violet tires are
>priced so low?


They look gay?

Ron
 
RonSonic wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:10:21 -0800, "Jay Beattie" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>So, it looks like PerformNashGo is selling the Michelin Pro Race
>>for under $25 in violet. Any reports on whether one color is more
>>slippery than another or conjecture on why the violet tires are
>>priced so low?

>
>
> They look gay?


Cyclists prefer sad looking tires?

--
Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island
 
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Carl Fogel writes:
>
> >> So, it looks like PerformNashGo is selling the Michelin Pro

Race
> >> for under $25 in violet. Any reports on whether one color

is more
> >> slippery than another or conjecture on why the violet tires

are
> >> priced so low? The literature indicates that they all have
> >> "silicum" tread compound, so I assume that the gray/black

tires
> >> (which are so popular and not on sale) have the same tread

compound
> >> as the colored tires and that all the tires should have

similar
> >> traction regardless of color. Let me know if I am missing
> >> something here.

>
> > A shrinking violet tire may naturally have shrinking prices?

>
> > As I understand it, adding carbon black to rubber improves

wear
> > characteristics and oxidation problems, but also reduces

traction.
>
> Carbon improves wet traction and wear and has higher rolling
> resistance than the same rubber without carbon, and without

other
> fillers.
>
> > Adding anything else (such as violet or other colors to

compliment
> > your ensemble) reduces traction further.

>
> Silicon fiber enables coloring tires because it has a neutral

color,
> but it doesn't improve wet traction and wear durability as much

as
> carbon. That's why the auto industry, that developed the idea

of
> colored tires, isn't using them.


The Michelin web-site indicates that the entire range has silicum
binder/filler in the tread compound which leads me to believe
that even the gray/black tires are "colored," vis., a dye is used
to color the tire rather than carbon black. This should mean
that the entire range would have the same traction and wear
characteristics regardless of color. Shouldn't it? -- Jay
Beattie.
 
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:35:27 -0600, Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:

>RonSonic wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:10:21 -0800, "Jay Beattie" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>So, it looks like PerformNashGo is selling the Michelin Pro Race
>>>for under $25 in violet. Any reports on whether one color is more
>>>slippery than another or conjecture on why the violet tires are
>>>priced so low?

>>
>>
>> They look gay?

>
>Cyclists prefer sad looking tires?


Wrong euphemism perhaps. Should we say they look, uh, "lavender?"

Ron
 
Jay Beattie wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Carl Fogel writes:
>>
>>
>>>>So, it looks like PerformNashGo is selling the Michelin Pro

>
> Race
>
>>>>for under $25 in violet. Any reports on whether one color

>
> is more
>
>>>>slippery than another or conjecture on why the violet tires

>
> are
>
>>>>priced so low? The literature indicates that they all have
>>>>"silicum" tread compound, so I assume that the gray/black

>
> tires
>
>>>>(which are so popular and not on sale) have the same tread

>
> compound
>
>>>>as the colored tires and that all the tires should have

>
> similar
>
>>>>traction regardless of color. Let me know if I am missing
>>>>something here.

>>
>>>A shrinking violet tire may naturally have shrinking prices?

>>
>>>As I understand it, adding carbon black to rubber improves

>
> wear
>
>>>characteristics and oxidation problems, but also reduces

>
> traction.
>
>>Carbon improves wet traction and wear and has higher rolling
>>resistance than the same rubber without carbon, and without

>
> other
>
>>fillers.
>>
>>
>>>Adding anything else (such as violet or other colors to

>
> compliment
>
>>>your ensemble) reduces traction further.

>>
>>Silicon fiber enables coloring tires because it has a neutral

>
> color,
>
>>but it doesn't improve wet traction and wear durability as much

>
> as
>
>>carbon. That's why the auto industry, that developed the idea

>
> of
>
>>colored tires, isn't using them.

>
>
> The Michelin web-site indicates that the entire range has silicum
> binder/filler in the tread compound which leads me to believe
> that even the gray/black tires are "colored," vis., a dye is used
> to color the tire rather than carbon black. This should mean
> that the entire range would have the same traction and wear
> characteristics regardless of color. Shouldn't it? -- Jay
> Beattie.
>


correct - the "black" is cosmetic. similar compounds to the above are
used on a lot of car/motorcycle tires these days - they're colored black
for cosmetic tradition, not carbon content, although colors are
available. saw a motorcycle with dark blue/purple tires the other day.
it was freaky.
 
RonSonic <[email protected]> writes:

> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:35:27 -0600, Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>RonSonic wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:10:21 -0800, "Jay Beattie" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>So, it looks like PerformNashGo is selling the Michelin Pro Race
>>>>for under $25 in violet. Any reports on whether one color is more
>>>>slippery than another or conjecture on why the violet tires are
>>>>priced so low?
>>>
>>>
>>> They look gay?

>>
>>Cyclists prefer sad looking tires?

>
> Wrong euphemism perhaps. Should we say they look, uh, "lavender?"


Not that there is anything wrong with that...
 
OK, now that we're discussing tire colors, I'd like to know if tan
sidewalls are ever going to return to common availability. An guesses?

My specific question: Is it cheaper for manufacturers to make sidewalls
black? If so, it would seem a strong motive for them to never return to
tan sidwalls. I would have thought (hoped?) though, that sidewall
rubber was naturally tan and needed a dye to be made black.

Why do I care? When I started cycling, quality tires had tan sidewalls,
and Huffys and the like had all-black (and very low-quality) tires.
It's permanently ingrained in me to see black sidewalls and think
"junk." It's an arbitrary bias on my part, I know the current
black-sidewall tires can be very good, but it offends my sense of
aesthetics to put a black sidewall tire on my "good" bike.

I've got a small stockpile, but even Ebay is running low on tan sidewalls.

Mark Janeba
 
jim beam wrote:
> Jay Beattie wrote:
>
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> Carl Fogel writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> So, it looks like PerformNashGo is selling the Michelin Pro

>>
>>
>> Race
>>
>>>>> for under $25 in violet. Any reports on whether one color

>>
>>
>> is more
>>
>>>>> slippery than another or conjecture on why the violet tires

>>
>>
>> are
>>
>>>>> priced so low? The literature indicates that they all have
>>>>> "silicum" tread compound, so I assume that the gray/black

>>
>>
>> tires
>>
>>>>> (which are so popular and not on sale) have the same tread

>>
>>
>> compound
>>
>>>>> as the colored tires and that all the tires should have

>>
>>
>> similar
>>
>>>>> traction regardless of color. Let me know if I am missing
>>>>> something here.
>>>
>>>
>>>> A shrinking violet tire may naturally have shrinking prices?
>>>
>>>
>>>> As I understand it, adding carbon black to rubber improves

>>
>>
>> wear
>>
>>>> characteristics and oxidation problems, but also reduces

>>
>>
>> traction.
>>
>>> Carbon improves wet traction and wear and has higher rolling
>>> resistance than the same rubber without carbon, and without

>>
>>
>> other
>>
>>> fillers.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Adding anything else (such as violet or other colors to

>>
>>
>> compliment
>>
>>>> your ensemble) reduces traction further.
>>>
>>>
>>> Silicon fiber enables coloring tires because it has a neutral

>>
>>
>> color,
>>
>>> but it doesn't improve wet traction and wear durability as much

>>
>>
>> as
>>
>>> carbon. That's why the auto industry, that developed the idea

>>
>>
>> of
>>
>>> colored tires, isn't using them.

>>
>>
>>
>> The Michelin web-site indicates that the entire range has silicum
>> binder/filler in the tread compound which leads me to believe
>> that even the gray/black tires are "colored," vis., a dye is used
>> to color the tire rather than carbon black. This should mean
>> that the entire range would have the same traction and wear
>> characteristics regardless of color. Shouldn't it? -- Jay
>> Beattie.
>>

>
> correct - the "black" is cosmetic. similar compounds to the above are
> used on a lot of car/motorcycle tires these days - they're colored black
> for cosmetic tradition, not carbon content, although colors are
> available. saw a motorcycle with dark blue/purple tires the other day.
> it was freaky.
>


http://motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_0307_gear11_z.jpg

example.
 
Jay Beattie writes:

> The Michelin web-site indicates that the entire range has silicum
> binder/filler in the tread compound which leads me to believe that
> even the gray/black tires are "colored," vis., a dye is used to
> color the tire rather than carbon black. This should mean that the
> entire range would have the same traction and wear characteristics
> regardless of color. Shouldn't it?


The black tires I've seen appear to be colored tires, not carbon black
tires as you suspect. They have a different black than carbon makes.
It seems reasonable that all tires of a specific line are made of the
same material regardless of color. I don't know the specifics but I
followed this development in "Automotive News Europe" trade magazine a
couple of years ago.

europe.autonews.com/

Jobst Brandt
[email protected]
 
Mark Janeba writes:

> OK, now that we're discussing tire colors, I'd like to know if tan
> sidewalls are ever going to return to common availability. An
> guesses?


> My specific question: Is it cheaper for manufacturers to make
> sidewalls black? If so, it would seem a strong motive for them to
> never return to tan sidwalls. I would have thought (hoped?) though,
> that sidewall rubber was naturally tan and needed a dye to be made
> black.


> Why do I care? When I started cycling, quality tires had tan
> sidewalls, and Huffys and the like had all-black (and very
> low-quality) tires. It's permanently ingrained in me to see black
> sidewalls and think "junk." It's an arbitrary bias on my part, I
> know the current black-sidewall tires can be very good, but it
> offends my sense of aesthetics to put a black sidewall tire on my
> "good" bike.


> I've got a small stockpile, but even Ebay is running low on tan
> sidewalls.


There was a time when black rims and tires were the rave and few
people would even consider a bare (tan) sidewall tire. At that time
most tires switched to black. There needs to be a market force to
move back to bare walled tires but I don't see any. My stash of such
tires is getting thin.

Jobst Brandt
[email protected]
 
In article <KygAd.274337$V41.87956@attbi_s52>,
Mark Janeba <[email protected]> wrote:
>OK, now that we're discussing tire colors, I'd like to know if tan
>sidewalls are ever going to return to common availability. An guesses?


Doesn't Continental still make tan sidewalls?
 
Mark Janeba mused:

> OK, now that we're discussing tire colors, I'd like to know if tan
> sidewalls are ever going to return to common availability. An guesses?


All bicycle fashions are cyclical. When I first got into multi-speed
bikes, cheap tires were all black, good tires had tan sidewalls.

Good bikes had center-pull brakes, cheap bikes had sidepulls.

Both of these situations subsequently reversed.

Center-pull brakes seem to be on the verge of making a comeback, thanks
mainly to Rivendell.

I would expect tan sidewalls to return eventually too, but don't know when.

Meanwhile, we've cornered the market on tan wall Avocets in road sizes:

http://harriscyclery.com/622

http://harriscyclery.com/630

Sheldon "Dunlop HPRR?" Brown
+---------------------------------------+
| The cure for boredom is curiosity. |
| There is no cure for curiosity. |
| -- Ellen Parr |
+---------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
 
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:08:48 -0800, jim beam
<[email protected]> wrote:

[snip]

>> The Michelin web-site indicates that the entire range has silicum
>> binder/filler in the tread compound which leads me to believe
>> that even the gray/black tires are "colored," vis., a dye is used
>> to color the tire rather than carbon black. This should mean
>> that the entire range would have the same traction and wear
>> characteristics regardless of color. Shouldn't it? -- Jay
>> Beattie.
>>

>
>correct - the "black" is cosmetic. similar compounds to the above are
>used on a lot of car/motorcycle tires these days - they're colored black
>for cosmetic tradition, not carbon content, although colors are
>available. saw a motorcycle with dark blue/purple tires the other day.
> it was freaky.


Dear Jay and Jim,

I'm willing to believe that all colors of silicum tires
include an extra traction-reducing coloring agent--except
one.

What color is raw silicum?

I'm guessing black, but for all I know it could be white or
brown or transparent.

Carl Fogel
 
If you're looking for 26" tires that are black with tan sidewall, look
for Avocet Fasgrip and Avocet Cross tires, available in both 26x1.25
and 26x1.5. The fasgrips are a true "slick" with no tread; the Cross
have the "inverted" tread. Both roll nicely on smooth pavement and are
excellent tires. Gaerlan and G to G tandems still appear to carry these
tires. Try them!
 
[email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:08:48 -0800, jim beam
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
>>>The Michelin web-site indicates that the entire range has silicum
>>>binder/filler in the tread compound which leads me to believe
>>>that even the gray/black tires are "colored," vis., a dye is used
>>>to color the tire rather than carbon black. This should mean
>>>that the entire range would have the same traction and wear
>>>characteristics regardless of color. Shouldn't it? -- Jay
>>>Beattie.
>>>

>>
>>correct - the "black" is cosmetic. similar compounds to the above are
>>used on a lot of car/motorcycle tires these days - they're colored black
>>for cosmetic tradition, not carbon content, although colors are
>>available. saw a motorcycle with dark blue/purple tires the other day.
>> it was freaky.

>
>
> Dear Jay and Jim,
>
> I'm willing to believe that all colors of silicum tires
> include an extra traction-reducing coloring agent--except
> one.
>
> What color is raw silicum?


"silicum" is a trade name. the raw elastomers used for tire rubber are
a kinda mucky milky color, hence they're easy to color as desired for
final product.

>
> I'm guessing black, but for all I know it could be white or
> brown or transparent.
>
> Carl Fogel