microintervals better than staeady L4 for me?

[mirek]

I started to experiment with microintervals. Thanks to i-Magic can program them as 10/10 sek for 20 min. Now I think about replacing "standard" L4 2x20 min with these.

Based on Andy's original idea i think that if I do microintervals at average power close to my FTP, then I benefit the same "metabolical" benefits. Raising LT is important to me. At the same time, due to much higher "on" power I gain additional neuromuscular adaptations. This is important too, cause I lack neuromuscular power. I'm not a TTer but MTB biker, so doing LT work at variable power output should be even more specific for me.

So, based on the above, is it better for me to do 2x20 min microintervals than steady 2x20 min L4 work?

 

[frenchyge]

What % of FTP will your 'on' periods be to give you this additional neuromuscular benefit?

 

[mirek]

What % of FTP will your 'on' periods be to give you this additional neuromuscular benefit?

145-150% based on FTP=345W, microintervals 10sek on=500W, off=200W (or 510/210 if fresh).

 

[frenchyge]

I wouldn't expect 150% FTP to be sufficient to promote increased neuromuscular power, although the recruitment patterns would be somewhat different from a steady-state effort. This is relevant, and interesting to read: http://home.earthlink.net/~acoggan/quadrantanalysis/

 

[mirek]

I wouldn't expect 150% FTP to be sufficient to promote increased neuromuscular power, although the recruitment patterns would be somewhat different from a steady-state effort.

OK then, I know QA. MI @ 500W are still low power and low AEPF so cannot induce hypertrophy or significant improvement related to e.g. 5s power.

But I took the word "neuromuscular" in a broader sense - from Andy's main purpose for MI, which is "at least partially dissociate the neuromuscular and cardiovascular/metabolic demands". So, even if "on" power is still rather low it is significantly greater then FTP, and you know that it is different in terms of "the forces that have to be generated, the motor units recruited to do so" (Andy's words).

So, let me put it this way: I definitely need LT work, as everyone does. OTOH I'm MTB biker and I need to work on short-term bursts of power. Are microintervals the best way to combine both - improving my LT power (sustained % of VO2max) AND at the same time working (specifically to MTB demands) on explosive, variable power output?

I just hope that doing them doesn't impair all important LT adaptations (when I look at my HR during MI it's very similar to steady L4: http://republika.pl/calzone/mi.jpg ), but instead I gain something more

 

[frenchyge]

I just hope that doing them doesn't impair all important LT adaptations (when I look at my HR during MI it's very similar to steady L4: http://republika.pl/calzone/mi.jpg ), but instead I gain something more

Sure. As you said, they're probably more specific to the demands of MTB-ing in terms of fiber recruitment, if nothing else. I don't think they'll fix what you say is a weakness in your neuromuscular power, however. I'd add a set of slow-speed 'jumps' at the beginning or end of your workout to help with that, if I'm reading you correctly.

 

[SolarEnergy]

So, let me put it this way: I definitely need LT work, as everyone does. OTOH I'm MTB biker and I need to work on short-term bursts of power.

Understood.

Are microintervals the best way to combine both - improving my LT power (sustained % of VO2max) AND at the same time working (specifically to MTB demands) on explosive, variable power output?

I guess it's hard to tell. These MI are still pretty new I think.

Has anyone accumulated a significant amount of data, for, or against their use?

Not sure. That takes a lot of time before *fashions* become definitive.

I think at that moment, a good way of improving both "L4" and "L7" is probably to target them in separate interval sets, even if like frenchyge suggested, they happened in the same workout.

Can the improvement be the same using MI? Who on earth can tell?

That doesn't mean they are not worth a serious try though.

 

[whoawhoa]

OK then, I know QA. MI @ 500W are still low power and low AEPF so cannot induce hypertrophy or significant improvement related to e.g. 5s power.

But I took the word "neuromuscular" in a broader sense - from Andy's main purpose for MI, which is "at least partially dissociate the neuromuscular and cardiovascular/metabolic demands". So, even if "on" power is still rather low it is significantly greater then FTP, and you know that it is different in terms of "the forces that have to be generated, the motor units recruited to do so" (Andy's words).

So, let me put it this way: I definitely need LT work, as everyone does. OTOH I'm MTB biker and I need to work on short-term bursts of power. Are microintervals the best way to combine both - improving my LT power (sustained % of VO2max) AND at the same time working (specifically to MTB demands) on explosive, variable power output?

I just hope that doing them doesn't impair all important LT adaptations (when I look at my HR during MI it's very similar to steady L4: http://republika.pl/calzone/mi.jpg ), but instead I gain something more

My hesitance would be that bursts on an ergo I would think are done at different cadences than bursts on a mountain bike.

 

[mirek]

Understood.
I think at that moment, a good way of improving both "L4" and "L7" is probably to target them in separate interval sets, even if like frenchyge suggested, they happened in the same workout.

Last year I did quite a lot of L4 on the road. The result was somewhat controversial, cause I noticed I was good at long, steady climbs, but had problems with maintaining power on much more variable terrain. It doesn't mean that I want to stay from TT pace as far as possible, will be doing long climbs as well but not as much. The "missing part" of them I want replace with MI.

As to L7 I'm not going to replace them with MI, they are different in terms of exploring AWC/ATP/CP stores and much longer "off" recovery times. I concentrate on making L4 more specific which means enhancing them with *some* ot the L7 characteristics.

 

[mirek]

My hesitance would be that bursts on an ergo I would think are done at different cadences than bursts on a mountain bike.

I can control cadence on my ergo quite well, now I'm doing "on" periods in 85-95 range. MTB-bursts are probably in a wider zone, but still I see good specifity here. At least comparing to infamous SE/SFR training

 

[BlueJersey]

Do both, at different period of your season. Around Jan till March, I was on Andy's threshold power program. Threshold power work 2x20, 2x30, 1x60 2 to 3 times a week. This month I am focusing on micro intervals to better prepare me for vo2max effort such as matching attacks, surging up rollers, and bridging small gaps.

I started to experiment with microintervals. Thanks to i-Magic can program them as 10/10 sek for 20 min. Now I think about replacing "standard" L4 2x20 min with these.

Based on Andy's original idea i think that if I do microintervals at average power close to my FTP, then I benefit the same "metabolical" benefits. Raising LT is important to me. At the same time, due to much higher "on" power I gain additional neuromuscular adaptations. This is important too, cause I lack neuromuscular power. I'm not a TTer but MTB biker, so doing LT work at variable power output should be even more specific for me.

So, based on the above, is it better for me to do 2x20 min microintervals than steady 2x20 min L4 work?

 

[acoggan]

These MI are still pretty new I think.

I guess that depends on your perspective.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...st_uids=850204&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...st_uids=276248&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...st_uids=152564&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_DocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...st_uids=702403&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_DocSum

Has anyone accumulated a significant amount of data, for, or against their use?

As I wrote here: http://home.earthlink.net/~acoggan/setraining/

"To my knowledge...the physiological adaptations that result from performing microintervals on a regular basis have never been studied."

 

[acoggan]

Around Jan till March, I was on Andy's threshold power program.

What program is that?