M
J
Jim Gosse
Guest
I am not a great swimmer, but I managed to do the 1000m without stopping. Keep in mind, if you do
stop, you run the risk of a collision with someone behind you.
It's not a bad idea however to stop or at least look every couple hundred meters to make sure you
are stil on course. Its amazing how easy it is to lose your bearings in an open water swim.
--
Jim Gosse OERC Wave Tank Memorial University
(709)737-3221 [email protected]
"Mike L" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Do some of you take a few rest breaks on a 1km swim or does everyone swim
it
> non-stop?
stop, you run the risk of a collision with someone behind you.
It's not a bad idea however to stop or at least look every couple hundred meters to make sure you
are stil on course. Its amazing how easy it is to lose your bearings in an open water swim.
--
Jim Gosse OERC Wave Tank Memorial University
(709)737-3221 [email protected]
"Mike L" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Do some of you take a few rest breaks on a 1km swim or does everyone swim
it
> non-stop?
J
Jim K.
Guest
Mike,
I can't freestyle swim the whole course so I do a combination of strokes. Either way I am moving
forward, just not too fast.
"Mike L" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Do some of you take a few rest breaks on a 1km swim or does everyone swim
it
> non-stop?
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I can't freestyle swim the whole course so I do a combination of strokes. Either way I am moving
forward, just not too fast.
"Mike L" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Do some of you take a few rest breaks on a 1km swim or does everyone swim
it
> non-stop?
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1
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T
Topdog
Guest
"Jim Gosse" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I am not a great swimmer, but I managed to do the 1000m without stopping. Keep in mind, if you do
> stop, you run the risk of a collision with someone behind you.
>
> It's not a bad idea however to stop or at least look every couple hundred meters to make sure you
> are stil on course. Its amazing how easy it is to lose your bearings in an open water swim.
You're better off going at a slow, steady speed than going, stopping, going, stopping. (Yes, as the
person above noted, you need to get your bearings on occasion, but that's not a "rest stop".) There
are several advantages to this. First, you will be able to go farther with less overall effort, and
likely in a faster period of time. Second, if you can find someone about your pace, you can draft
behind them and save even MORE energy (whereas once you stop to rest, you will likely lose them.) If
you're having problems with the endurance element, there's two ways to overcome that. First is
simply to swim the distance on a regular basis until you feel more able to do it. Second is strength
training, and in particular, training for swimming strength. I know many guys who can bench a ton,
but are relatively weak in their lats and tris. If you don't have the strength there, it will be
much harder to cover a longer distance, especially in rougher water. Swimming is the leg where
strength training may pay off the best.
> I am not a great swimmer, but I managed to do the 1000m without stopping. Keep in mind, if you do
> stop, you run the risk of a collision with someone behind you.
>
> It's not a bad idea however to stop or at least look every couple hundred meters to make sure you
> are stil on course. Its amazing how easy it is to lose your bearings in an open water swim.
You're better off going at a slow, steady speed than going, stopping, going, stopping. (Yes, as the
person above noted, you need to get your bearings on occasion, but that's not a "rest stop".) There
are several advantages to this. First, you will be able to go farther with less overall effort, and
likely in a faster period of time. Second, if you can find someone about your pace, you can draft
behind them and save even MORE energy (whereas once you stop to rest, you will likely lose them.) If
you're having problems with the endurance element, there's two ways to overcome that. First is
simply to swim the distance on a regular basis until you feel more able to do it. Second is strength
training, and in particular, training for swimming strength. I know many guys who can bench a ton,
but are relatively weak in their lats and tris. If you don't have the strength there, it will be
much harder to cover a longer distance, especially in rougher water. Swimming is the leg where
strength training may pay off the best.
M
Mike L
Guest
Hey, thanks. Now I feel better. I'm sure I'll be able to cover the distance next month...one way or
another. Appreciate your feedback Jim.
Mike L In article <[email protected]>, "Jim K." <[email protected]> wrote:
>Mike,
>
>I can't freestyle swim the whole course so I do a combination of strokes. Either way I am moving
>forward, just not too fast.
>
>"Mike L" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Do some of you take a few rest breaks on a 1km swim or does everyone swim
>it
>> non-stop?
>
>
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1
>Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
another. Appreciate your feedback Jim.
Mike L In article <[email protected]>, "Jim K." <[email protected]> wrote:
>Mike,
>
>I can't freestyle swim the whole course so I do a combination of strokes. Either way I am moving
>forward, just not too fast.
>
>"Mike L" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Do some of you take a few rest breaks on a 1km swim or does everyone swim
>it
>> non-stop?
>
>
>
>
>-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1
>Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
R
Radioactive Man
Guest
On 30 May 2003 10:06:59 -0700, [email protected] (topdog) wrote:
>"Jim Gosse" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> I am not a great swimmer, but I managed to do the 1000m without stopping. Keep in mind, if you do
>> stop, you run the risk of a collision with someone behind you.
>>
>> It's not a bad idea however to stop or at least look every couple hundred meters to make sure you
>> are stil on course. Its amazing how easy it is to lose your bearings in an open water swim.
>
>You're better off going at a slow, steady speed than going, stopping, going, stopping. (Yes, as the
>person above noted, you need to get your bearings on occasion, but that's not a "rest stop".) There
>are several advantages to this. First, you will be able to go farther with less overall effort, and
>likely in a faster period of time. Second, if you can find someone about your pace, you can draft
>behind them and save even MORE energy (whereas once you stop to rest, you will likely lose them.)
>If you're having problems with the endurance element, there's two ways to overcome that. First is
>simply to swim the distance on a regular basis until you feel more able to do it. Second is
>strength training, and in particular, training for swimming strength. I know many guys who can
>bench a ton, but are relatively weak in their lats and tris. If you don't have the strength there,
>it will be much harder to cover a longer distance, especially in rougher water. Swimming is the leg
>where strength training may pay off the best.
What sort of strength training do you do and/or suggest for swimming? During the ~4 months of the
winter off-season, I swim a lot, run a little, and do a couple of hours of conventional weight
training (4 - 12 reps per set) per week. I can't tell if it helps with the swimming or not, but I do
notice that it causes my performance on the swim to suffer terribly if I don't allow enough recovery
from the weight training. Lately, I have been improving in the water just by swimming ~12,000 yards
per week, mostly at an aerobic (not all out, but not easy either) pace and staying focused on good
form, although my forearm does tend to get fatigued a bit on the 1000 and 2000 yard pieces. I
suppose that doing a few wrist curls might help with the forearm issue.
>"Jim Gosse" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> I am not a great swimmer, but I managed to do the 1000m without stopping. Keep in mind, if you do
>> stop, you run the risk of a collision with someone behind you.
>>
>> It's not a bad idea however to stop or at least look every couple hundred meters to make sure you
>> are stil on course. Its amazing how easy it is to lose your bearings in an open water swim.
>
>You're better off going at a slow, steady speed than going, stopping, going, stopping. (Yes, as the
>person above noted, you need to get your bearings on occasion, but that's not a "rest stop".) There
>are several advantages to this. First, you will be able to go farther with less overall effort, and
>likely in a faster period of time. Second, if you can find someone about your pace, you can draft
>behind them and save even MORE energy (whereas once you stop to rest, you will likely lose them.)
>If you're having problems with the endurance element, there's two ways to overcome that. First is
>simply to swim the distance on a regular basis until you feel more able to do it. Second is
>strength training, and in particular, training for swimming strength. I know many guys who can
>bench a ton, but are relatively weak in their lats and tris. If you don't have the strength there,
>it will be much harder to cover a longer distance, especially in rougher water. Swimming is the leg
>where strength training may pay off the best.
What sort of strength training do you do and/or suggest for swimming? During the ~4 months of the
winter off-season, I swim a lot, run a little, and do a couple of hours of conventional weight
training (4 - 12 reps per set) per week. I can't tell if it helps with the swimming or not, but I do
notice that it causes my performance on the swim to suffer terribly if I don't allow enough recovery
from the weight training. Lately, I have been improving in the water just by swimming ~12,000 yards
per week, mostly at an aerobic (not all out, but not easy either) pace and staying focused on good
form, although my forearm does tend to get fatigued a bit on the 1000 and 2000 yard pieces. I
suppose that doing a few wrist curls might help with the forearm issue.
T
Topdog
Guest
> What sort of strength training do you do and/or suggest for swimming? During the ~4 months of the
> winter off-season, I swim a lot, run a little, and do a couple of hours of conventional weight
> training (4 - 12 reps per set) per week. I can't tell if it helps with the swimming or not, but I
> do notice that it causes my performance on the swim to suffer terribly if I don't allow enough
> recovery from the weight training. Lately, I have been improving in the water just by swimming
> ~12,000 yards per week, mostly at an aerobic (not all out, but not easy either) pace and staying
> focused on good form, although my forearm does tend to get fatigued a bit on the 1000 and 2000
> yard pieces. I suppose that doing a few wrist curls might help with the forearm issue.
When I swam in college, I noticed the same - we did a lot of weights, but I was never too happy
with the results. I always felt that, by doing a number of different stations, I was never able to
focus on the muscles really critical to my stroke (fly). Several of us worked with the team
exercise physiologist and developed a minimalist program, which emphasized the areas we used the
most. At the end of the year, I was so much stronger that I didn't know how to fast to go!
More
on this in a second.
The biggest mistake I see people making with weights is thinking in terms of "strength" (as in,
brute power). How much can I lift? How much can I bench? The problem is, swimming (especially at
longer distances) is not a power sport. It's endurance based. As a result, you need to focus on
lower weights, but with higher reps. From what you say, it sounds like you are doing the first -
lots of weight, low reps. That's OK for short, short distances and sprints, but at almost all tri
distances, it's counterproductive, as you seem to be noticing.
Your 12000 yds a week is actually a form of the second type of training, with really low weights
and a TON of reps! Yes, that WILL improve you a lot, provided you don't develop tendonitis
along the way. No doubt though - the distance you are doing should really help out, especially with
the longer swims.
As for weights, personal suggestion (and this also comes from my former college coach) is
to do this -
1. Lay off high weight\low rep sets. Focus on low weight\high reps. Start at 12 reps at resistance
level "A". doing the strength circuit 2-3 times per week, increase the number of reps you can do
at resistance A until you reach 20 reps. When you reach 20 reps, then increase the resistance to
the amount that brings you back to 12 reps. do the same increase in reps until you reach 20 and
then increase resistance, etc. Do 3 sets each - that should provide a bit of a balance between
the two (strength and endurance).
2. If your emphasis is on swimming strength (which I am assuming it is from your question), focus on
the specific groups you will need most. Include opposite muscle groups (i.e. if you do biceps
curls as exercise #1, then you need to do triceps extensions as exercise #2). Here's what I use -
biceps curls triceps extension bent over rows bench press lat pull military press knee extension
hamstring curls upright rows
It has seemed to me that the weakest area for most people out of all of these is with the triceps,
followed probably by the lats.
Give it a try - I think you will notice a difference, and that it will compliment the work you are
doing in the pool!
> winter off-season, I swim a lot, run a little, and do a couple of hours of conventional weight
> training (4 - 12 reps per set) per week. I can't tell if it helps with the swimming or not, but I
> do notice that it causes my performance on the swim to suffer terribly if I don't allow enough
> recovery from the weight training. Lately, I have been improving in the water just by swimming
> ~12,000 yards per week, mostly at an aerobic (not all out, but not easy either) pace and staying
> focused on good form, although my forearm does tend to get fatigued a bit on the 1000 and 2000
> yard pieces. I suppose that doing a few wrist curls might help with the forearm issue.
When I swam in college, I noticed the same - we did a lot of weights, but I was never too happy
with the results. I always felt that, by doing a number of different stations, I was never able to
focus on the muscles really critical to my stroke (fly). Several of us worked with the team
exercise physiologist and developed a minimalist program, which emphasized the areas we used the
most. At the end of the year, I was so much stronger that I didn't know how to fast to go!
Moreon this in a second.
The biggest mistake I see people making with weights is thinking in terms of "strength" (as in,
brute power). How much can I lift? How much can I bench? The problem is, swimming (especially at
longer distances) is not a power sport. It's endurance based. As a result, you need to focus on
lower weights, but with higher reps. From what you say, it sounds like you are doing the first -
lots of weight, low reps. That's OK for short, short distances and sprints, but at almost all tri
distances, it's counterproductive, as you seem to be noticing.
Your 12000 yds a week is actually a form of the second type of training, with really low weights
and a TON of reps!
Yes, that WILL improve you a lot, provided you don't develop tendonitisalong the way. No doubt though - the distance you are doing should really help out, especially with
the longer swims.
As for weights, personal suggestion (and this also comes from my former college coach) is
to do this -
1. Lay off high weight\low rep sets. Focus on low weight\high reps. Start at 12 reps at resistance
level "A". doing the strength circuit 2-3 times per week, increase the number of reps you can do
at resistance A until you reach 20 reps. When you reach 20 reps, then increase the resistance to
the amount that brings you back to 12 reps. do the same increase in reps until you reach 20 and
then increase resistance, etc. Do 3 sets each - that should provide a bit of a balance between
the two (strength and endurance).
2. If your emphasis is on swimming strength (which I am assuming it is from your question), focus on
the specific groups you will need most. Include opposite muscle groups (i.e. if you do biceps
curls as exercise #1, then you need to do triceps extensions as exercise #2). Here's what I use -
biceps curls triceps extension bent over rows bench press lat pull military press knee extension
hamstring curls upright rows
It has seemed to me that the weakest area for most people out of all of these is with the triceps,
followed probably by the lats.
Give it a try - I think you will notice a difference, and that it will compliment the work you are
doing in the pool!
M
Mike Tennent
Guest
[email protected] (Mike L) wrote:
>Do some of you take a few rest breaks on a 1km swim or does everyone swim it non-stop?
My own personal mindset is that you should be able to swim the distance in a particular race without
stopping for a rest. If you can't, then I don't think you've trained sufficiently for that distance.
It's strictly a safety issue with me. You owe it to the organizers and your fellow competitors to be
sufficiently trained so that you can take care of yourself and not be a hazard or impediment.
If you suddenly stop swimming and/or dramatically change your speed relative to the swimmers
around you, you cause a problem. Folks have to avoid you, swim around you, then get re-oriented
and get back into a rhythm. The chances of getting kicked or hit goes up dramatically. No-one
really needs that.
I'm not saying you should be 100% sure of it before bumping up to a longer distance swim. But I
don't think it's right to go in knowing you can't. You owe your fellow competitors and the
organizer more.
Mike Tennent
>Do some of you take a few rest breaks on a 1km swim or does everyone swim it non-stop?
My own personal mindset is that you should be able to swim the distance in a particular race without
stopping for a rest. If you can't, then I don't think you've trained sufficiently for that distance.
It's strictly a safety issue with me. You owe it to the organizers and your fellow competitors to be
sufficiently trained so that you can take care of yourself and not be a hazard or impediment.
If you suddenly stop swimming and/or dramatically change your speed relative to the swimmers
around you, you cause a problem. Folks have to avoid you, swim around you, then get re-oriented
and get back into a rhythm. The chances of getting kicked or hit goes up dramatically. No-one
really needs that.
I'm not saying you should be 100% sure of it before bumping up to a longer distance swim. But I
don't think it's right to go in knowing you can't. You owe your fellow competitors and the
organizer more.
Mike Tennent
O
Old Timer
Guest
I used to take little stops every now and then until I realized how much time it was costing me with
nothing to gain. I no longer now feel the need to stop, but it used to be more of a "safety blanket"
kind of thing as swimming was not my strong event (still is not). However, either I got more
comfortable or I became a better swimmer. I only now take temporary stops when getting kicked or
punched or something that might make me get a little nervous.
The only exception is at Ironman. Both times I stopped in the middle just to take a look around at
the craziness, figuring not many people in the world ever get to see such a thing from that
perspective. Worth
it.
nothing to gain. I no longer now feel the need to stop, but it used to be more of a "safety blanket"
kind of thing as swimming was not my strong event (still is not). However, either I got more
comfortable or I became a better swimmer. I only now take temporary stops when getting kicked or
punched or something that might make me get a little nervous.
The only exception is at Ironman. Both times I stopped in the middle just to take a look around at
the craziness, figuring not many people in the world ever get to see such a thing from that
perspective. Worth
it.
T
Topdog
Guest
> My own personal mindset is that you should be able to swim the distance in a particular race
> without stopping for a rest. If you can't, then I don't think you've trained sufficiently for that
> distance.
I'll second that thought. Remember, no one says that you have to swim quickly. In fact, the best way
to do it is to maintain a steady, sustainable pace, even if it's slow. One of the most common
mistakes I see is for people to go out like a banshee, only to die like a drunken sailor. The only
way to stop that is to train, know your abilities, and not get sucked out with the others if they
are going beyond them. As for training, my rule of thumb is to be able to do TWICE the distance in
training. If you're doing a 1/2 mi swim, then do 1 mi open water when you train. Since most of the
time we swim easier in training than in the race, this should allow you to take it out harder
without getting tired as easily. (Plus, most of the time we don't have to do a long bike and run
after we do our swim training!) So, make your training HARDER than what you are actually training
for - that way you will be much better prepared.
> without stopping for a rest. If you can't, then I don't think you've trained sufficiently for that
> distance.
I'll second that thought. Remember, no one says that you have to swim quickly. In fact, the best way
to do it is to maintain a steady, sustainable pace, even if it's slow. One of the most common
mistakes I see is for people to go out like a banshee, only to die like a drunken sailor. The only
way to stop that is to train, know your abilities, and not get sucked out with the others if they
are going beyond them. As for training, my rule of thumb is to be able to do TWICE the distance in
training. If you're doing a 1/2 mi swim, then do 1 mi open water when you train. Since most of the
time we swim easier in training than in the race, this should allow you to take it out harder
without getting tired as easily. (Plus, most of the time we don't have to do a long bike and run
after we do our swim training!) So, make your training HARDER than what you are actually training
for - that way you will be much better prepared.
T
Topdog
Guest
> The only exception is at Ironman. Both times I stopped in the middle just to take a look around at
> the craziness, figuring not many people in the world ever get to see such a thing from that
> perspective. Worth
> it.
If you've been in an Ironman, you're a decent swimmer, period! Heck, I swam in college and still
might have problems swimming several miles in the ocean!
> the craziness, figuring not many people in the world ever get to see such a thing from that
> perspective. Worth
> it.
If you've been in an Ironman, you're a decent swimmer, period! Heck, I swam in college and still
might have problems swimming several miles in the ocean!
O
Old Timer
Guest
Heh heh...I guess its all relative, isn't it. Where I swim there are 5 lanes grouped according to
ability. Lane 1 is for newbies, lane 5 for the fastest - pros, collegiate swimmers, etc.. I normally
lead in lane 2 and only rarely make it over to lane 3. Thats how I judge my swimming - average at
best. I guess I'm comparing myself to a tough crowd.
>
> If you've been in an Ironman, you're a decent swimmer, period! Heck, I swam in college and still
> might have problems swimming several miles in the ocean!
ability. Lane 1 is for newbies, lane 5 for the fastest - pros, collegiate swimmers, etc.. I normally
lead in lane 2 and only rarely make it over to lane 3. Thats how I judge my swimming - average at
best. I guess I'm comparing myself to a tough crowd.
>
> If you've been in an Ironman, you're a decent swimmer, period! Heck, I swam in college and still
> might have problems swimming several miles in the ocean!
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