mike vandeman-stupid enviromentalist



mdnathanp

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Nov 27, 2004
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mike vandeman is a annoying, stuck up enviromentalist who believes he is to good for bikers and pretty much everyone. I urge you to look at his website-http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/index.htm, "its a lot of bs". I think the enviroment is importent but he has taken it WAY to far. He has a grudge against rei, a store which supports the enviroment, he should shut up and go appreciate nature, however i find nature a lot more fun in mid air on my bike
 

Duckwah

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Oct 30, 2002
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Wow that guy has gone off the deep end and needs to get some help!

While I agree that there are certain areas that should be off limits to just about everyone I can't see the point in banning mountain bikes from so many places.
 

ireman_1

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Aug 10, 2003
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Duckwah said:
Wow that guy has gone off the deep end and needs to get some help!

While I agree that there are certain areas that should be off limits to just about everyone I can't see the point in banning mountain bikes from so many places.


Spend a few minutes lurking on the alt.mountain-bike portion here and you'll have decent idea of just how much of a troll vandeman is. The two most common mistakes "we" make are: assuming he is a witless troll unequipped for debate and that we give any credence at all to his posts by responding to him. He's a pile and wants to goad others into showing all the reasons he's right. Ignore him even though it's difficult from time to time...

Kraig...
 

Trekker2017

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Apr 23, 2004
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ireman_1 said:
Spend a few minutes lurking on the alt.mountain-bike portion here and you'll have decent idea of just how much of a troll vandeman is. The two most common mistakes "we" make are: assuming he is a witless troll unequipped for debate and that we give any credence at all to his posts by responding to him. He's a pile and wants to goad others into showing all the reasons he's right. Ignore him even though it's difficult from time to time...

Kraig...

You can't ignore a wacko like this one. He's just the kind of jerk that will get us banned from everything except "Rails to Trails". You have to attack his philosophy at every opportunity otherwise we'll end up with another form of prohibition and a further loss of our rights. Attack, Attack, Attack.
 

Cheesy

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Aug 21, 2003
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He tried to take up the issue of the environmental destruction of MTB riding here in Japan. What he failed to mention is that a large proportion of MTB riding here is in plantation forests that are going to be clearfelled within 10 years time. I think there is a MUCH more important environmental issue at stake here......
 

Snuffleupagus

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Nov 6, 2004
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Seriously, of all the environmental threats one could choose to tackle, why go after a group of generally pro-environment guys and gals whose hobby envolves trying to preserve green space and riding vehicles that produce zero emissions?

Whatever though, I've read some of the guy's diatribes on the alt.mountain-bike section, and he's quite the piece of work.
 

sstaurus

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Sep 24, 2004
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Snuffleupagus said:
Seriously, of all the environmental threats one could choose to tackle, why go after a group of generally pro-environment guys and gals whose hobby envolves trying to preserve green space and riding vehicles that produce zero emissions?

Whatever though, I've read some of the guy's diatribes on the alt.mountain-bike section, and he's quite the piece of work.
Yea, exactly what I always thought. What is he trying to accomplish here by attacking people who already have a concern for nature and a love for it?

He'd be more useful if he went out and jumped infront of a car in the name of the environment. He's a grade A tool.
 

triguy98

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Sep 19, 2004
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mdnathanp said:
mike vandeman is a annoying, stuck up enviromentalist who believes he is to good for bikers and pretty much everyone. I urge you to look at his website-http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/index.htm, "its a lot of bs". I think the enviroment is importent but he has taken it WAY to far. He has a grudge against rei, a store which supports the enviroment, he should shut up and go appreciate nature, however i find nature a lot more fun in mid air on my bike
The problem with these extreme people is that conservation and recreation have no place to co exist in their minds. I hike, run, backpack, and ride. I love riding the most. While backpacking in Yellowstone, where bikes are not allowed, i noticed severe trail erosion in some places. Trail erosion caused by the 1000 lb cookie cutters that ARE allowed on many trails where bikers are not due to "erosion" concerns.

I DO wish more mountain bikers were more trail concious, but unfortunately, you always have the idiots in the group... I love the part in the site where they accuse MTB of attracting the unsavory people that love to travel off trail. I've seen it first hand. Also seen in by hikers and backpackers, as well. Ban them, too?
 

Chris_G

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Jan 7, 2005
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I've been posting at alt.mountain-bike for 10+ years now. He's been there as long as I have. He is a delusional freak who has lost all sense of reality. He will twist whatever you say to prove that you are lying or stupid. If you get aggresive with him he will take it as a "death threat", no joke. There is no point in arguing with him as nothing you say will change his point of view. Plus it's all been said before. On the other hand if you want to have a little fun with him, reply al you want. Just remember to trim the post so you aren't hogging bandwidth.
 

GTIDXC

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Jan 3, 2005
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Wow these are the people I love to hate! Yes some of his points are valid but a trail will erode regardless of how it is travelled hikers, mtb, etc as it is dirt without natural items like plants to prevent erosin, now to rant slightly, then there should be no trails! Then there will be less knowledge and appreciation of wilderness areas so the next generation will be disattached and have even less problem putting a parking lot there problem solved! NO wilderness no arugument, now everyone is screwed, awesome! By the way mabey if we were'nt generally a friendly group we could be like the mountian biker in his website swearing at people, how about the hikers that litter or the dumbass nailing on his rear brake actually doing damage to the trail or the (enter dumb action here) some one else is doing. All he wants to do is argue with us with his pig headed one way opinions instead of looking at solutions which could fix potential problems. Oh well were stuck hearing about him for now :mad:
 

upontwo

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Jan 17, 2005
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GTIDXC said:
Wow these are the people I love to hate! Yes some of his points are valid but a trail will erode regardless of how it is travelled hikers, mtb, etc as it is dirt without natural items like plants to prevent erosin, now to rant slightly, then there should be no trails! Then there will be less knowledge and appreciation of wilderness areas so the next generation will be disattached and have even less problem putting a parking lot there problem solved! NO wilderness no arugument, now everyone is screwed, awesome! By the way mabey if we were'nt generally a friendly group we could be like the mountian biker in his website swearing at people, how about the hikers that litter or the dumbass nailing on his rear brake actually doing damage to the trail or the (enter dumb action here) some one else is doing. All he wants to do is argue with us with his pig headed one way opinions instead of looking at solutions which could fix potential problems. Oh well were stuck hearing about him for now :mad:
I know around my neck of the woods, horses due more damage to trails then MTBS.
 

Mr_Kingkillaha

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Jul 2, 2004
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GTIDXC said:
Wow these are the people I love to hate! Yes some of his points are valid but a trail will erode regardless of how it is travelled hikers, mtb, etc as it is dirt without natural items like plants to prevent erosin, now to rant slightly, then there should be no trails! Then there will be less knowledge and appreciation of wilderness areas so the next generation will be disattached and have even less problem putting a parking lot there problem solved! NO wilderness no arugument, now everyone is screwed, awesome! By the way mabey if we were'nt generally a friendly group we could be like the mountian biker in his website swearing at people, how about the hikers that litter or the dumbass nailing on his rear brake actually doing damage to the trail or the (enter dumb action here) some one else is doing. All he wants to do is argue with us with his pig headed one way opinions instead of looking at solutions which could fix potential problems. Oh well were stuck hearing about him for now :mad:

If you mess with him a while, you will realize he actually does want to ban all trails. seriously. His main goal is to create "human free" enviroment. Talking to him is a waste of time, unless you are entertained by him.

Here is the Mike Vandeman FAQ, which is hard to find these days since the man tries to sue eveyone who hosts it:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.mountain-bike/msg/a792a0978cff7338
 

birdman23

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Aug 11, 2003
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Man what an idiot. Anyone who is a backpacker has seen the damage horses can do to a trail. FAR more severe than any bike. So why is it that the environmentalists aren't screaming to ban horses? Hmmmm.
 

DecSim

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Feb 20, 2005
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Mike is well known for his trolling of mountain bike forums and discussion groups. Ignore him as he actually makes no real arguments. Out of interest I emailed him and tried to ask decent questions, the result including the point where he starts insulting me can be seen at

www.geocities.com/mike_vandeman_the_extremist

The website is no where near finished but the important bit, the emails, is up. Enjoy :)
 

willtsmith

New Member
Sep 13, 2004
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GTIDXC said:
Wow these are the people I love to hate! Yes some of his points are valid but a trail will erode regardless of how it is travelled hikers, mtb, etc as it is dirt without natural items like plants to prevent erosin, now to rant slightly, then there should be no trails! Then there will be less knowledge and appreciation of wilderness areas so the next generation will be disattached and have even less problem putting a parking lot there problem solved! NO wilderness no arugument, now everyone is screwed, awesome! By the way mabey if we were'nt generally a friendly group we could be like the mountian biker in his website swearing at people, how about the hikers that litter or the dumbass nailing on his rear brake actually doing damage to the trail or the (enter dumb action here) some one else is doing. All he wants to do is argue with us with his pig headed one way opinions instead of looking at solutions which could fix potential problems. Oh well were stuck hearing about him for now :mad:
You see, his master thesis is that when more people recreate, there will be more trail erosion. And if biking allows more recreation, than it must be banned and confined to areas where proper maintenance is done (like rail trails).

The REAL story is this guy is the king HOHA (Hateful Old Hiker Associate). He wants to go out on trails and be all by himself. The problem comes in when he is passed by mountain bikers (who are occasionally rude). There are certainly rude hikers, but they don't pass him so often.

The most obscene stupidity of this guy is his assertion that bikes were made for paved surfaces. In fact, the advent of bicycle technology happened at a time when there were very few paved roads. Most roads were ..... DIRT!!!!

Well those are roads, they are maintained. Well said, and perhaps we should invest a little time an effort into trail design and maintenance that minimizes erosion.

The guy is nuts. But his insanity is a profound selfishness that is often pervasive in our society. No one in their right mind would go driving and expect to be alone. That's a public space, and you have to share it with others. Somehow this HOHA (and others like him) expect to go out into parks (public spaces) and be alone.

I have an uncle in Missouri who bought 1000 acres of land so he could hunt without 200 other guys in orange vests surrounding him. He built two lakes and a cabin and he is perfectly happily alone. No mountain bikers disturb him. If HOHAs want to be "ALONE" on single use trails, they need to do some private land aqcuisition and build their "hiker only" trails. Until then, they'll have to share the space maintained by public institutions and tax monies.


PS, the guy DOES have a point that mountain bikers need to do more work to maintain trails. So PLEASE if you don't volunteer at your local trail, GO VOLUNTEER!!!!
 

willtsmith

New Member
Sep 13, 2004
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birdman23 said:
Man what an idiot. Anyone who is a backpacker has seen the damage horses can do to a trail. FAR more severe than any bike. So why is it that the environmentalists aren't screaming to ban horses? Hmmmm.
It takes a LOT of money to maintain horses. Ergo, horse users typically have a lot more $$$ for lawyers etc...

IMBA is stuck advocating for multi-use trails. But the truth is that the equestrians put the most impact on trail systems. They also leave the greatest amount of **** laying around.

Nothing against equestrians. But equestrian groups need to put in time "horse-proofing" and cleaning trails just like MTB groups need to invest time upgrading and re-routing trails to be more resilient to bike traffic.

Of course, the REAL enemy is water. And that requires changing the trail so that water travels off and around it instead of DOWN it.
 

willtsmith

New Member
Sep 13, 2004
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triguy98 said:
...

I DO wish more mountain bikers were more trail concious, but unfortunately, you always have the idiots in the group... I love the part in the site where they accuse MTB of attracting the unsavory people that love to travel off trail. I've seen it first hand. Also seen in by hikers and backpackers, as well. Ban them, too?
This is what makes me think that Vandemann is crazy on the order of Anne Coulter.

On one hand he says that MTBers are "too lazy" to travel by foot. But than he attacks MTBers for building their own unauthorized trails. Which is it????

His approach to discourse is the "find any possible reason to dislike this group" and than say ALL of them without reconciling an internally consistent position. And it's not odd in this society since you'll hear this same methodology on Crossfire on any given night.

The MTB community is wise to keep up a "Vandemann watch". We need to keep files of stuff to retort his heaps of baseless claims. Because when the local HOHAs come to shut down YOUR MTB trail, they will be armed with the same nonsensical rhetoric.


Oh yeah, and you horse people ... If they can train horses to pull carts down the middle of cities, how come you can't train your horse to NOT freak out when they hear a mountain bike. Hell, they trained cavalry horses to tolerate GUNFIRE, I'm sure an equestrian owner can ride a mountain bike around their pen.
 

ahinalu

New Member
Mar 27, 2005
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Warning...the following is a rant. It's a rant done while on percoset and
lots of post operation pain.


[rant]
I've seen his dribble for a while. I do agree that there should be places
that exclude certain activities and maybe even a few that exlude all human
impact. BUT!!!

What pisses me off about these kinds of idiots, is that they are trying "to
save the planet" by prohibiting this or stopping that. What needs to change
is the amount of people we have on this planet. Or else what will happen is
people like this vandemann kook will find a way to impose their act now or
all is doomed on the powers that be and we will end up like that movie
Soylent green http://www.sciflicks.com/soylent_green/ . I agree it's a bit over the top and we might not be eating
people, but the part about how we all will be forced to live in cities and
all the wilderness is left for its own, blah, blah, blah.

The only good thing is that ALL of these types of freaks haven't gotten
together and formed an all encompassing nazienvormentaltotalitary group.

Don't ingore people like him, he's not alone. With all their peace and love ****, they have none for humans. These are the trail nazis.

[phsyco rant]
I say we all carry guns and shoot anyone NOT on a bike
[/phsyco rant]

When trying to communicate w/ these people just remember they are as
enthusiastic about what they think is right as we are.

As a tour boat operator, I get their type all the time. Unfortunatly, they
have done so many drugs they can't learn anything "short term".
[/rant]

I think I'm going to go to my happy place now and look at my shinny bike I can't ride for a month or so:p

BTW- If someone comes on this forum trying to sell an 04 Bullit w/ monster t and chaneleon green/purple paint job. It's my wife, so send help.....