On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:58:58 +0000 (UTC), "Phil Winterbourne" <
[email protected]> wrote:
. ."Mike Vandeman" <
[email protected]> wrote in message
.
news:[email protected]... .> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:41:18 +0100,
"Phil.Winterbourne" .> <
[email protected]> wrote: .[snip] .> . .> .I assume you mean
"mountain bikers _that_ I know", rather than a .> .sweeping generalisation. Saying that all mountain
bikers "don't like to .> .tell the truth" would be like saying all Muslims are terrorists, or all .>
.Frenchmen are anti America. Neither of which are true. .> .> Where did you see the word "all" in my
statement? . .I didn't, that's why I assumed that you didn't mean all. . .> But frankly, every
mountain .> biker I have met has lied. 100% There may be an honest one SOMEWHERE, but .I .> haven't
met them. . .I wont dispute what you say as I don't know the bikers you have met. I am .surprised
though as I can't recall any lie that any biking friend of mine .has told. That being said I doubt
than anyone is completely truthful all the .time so you might be right. But I see no reason to think
that mountain .bikers are any worse in this regard than anyone else.
You are right, used car salesmen probably tell as many lies as mountain bikers. Both are trying to
do something they shouldn't. If they told the truth, they couldn't be successful!
.> .In my view you are more likely to reduce the harm done by mountain bikes .> .(and other forms of
out door activities) by working with the people .> .involved to find ways of allowing them to
continue to enjoy their chosen .> .pursuit while doing so in a way which reduces the environmental
impact. .> .> I have: stay on paved roads! . .Unless you have arrived at this solution by an ongoing
and collaborative .discussion with a representative group of mountain bikers, and they have .agreed
that this is the best solution I can't really see how you can say "I .have".
I have.
.> People managed to enjoy it for 100 years, before .> mountain biking was invented. . .I might be
wrong, but I think that bicycles pre-dated paved roads? And .importantly in large areas of the world
there are no, or very few paved .roads to use. For example many of the small Greek villages I rode
through .in Kos (a small island) in 2001 have no access from paved roads and Donkeys .and bicycles
seemed to be the transport of choice.
In that case, at least stay out of natural areas. But dirt roads in Greece don't excuse mountain
biking in U.S. parks. DUH!
.> .By adopting an antagonistic approach, as I have seen you do frequently, .> .all that happens is
that attitudes harden and the various parties become .> .more entrenched in their views. .> .> Oh,
sure. Mountain bikers' attitides and behavior are all MY fault. Right. . .No, that's not what I
said. The theory I describe is that when attempting .to negotiate with a group that hold views that
you wish to change antagonism .is unlikely to be productive.
I don't antagonize. I just tell the truth. Mountain bikers just can't stand that.
It tends to make the group more entrenched .and less likely to change their views, and at worst can
lead to them taking .a position further away from your desired state than they were before you
.started. I refer here to all parties in the discussion, so that's mountain .bikers as well as
yourself in this example. . .I think that what I am saying is that by being antagonistic in your
approach .you are actually making it less likley that mountain bikers will come round .to you way
of thinking, and in some individual cases it is possible that .they will move further away form
your view.
Like ALL people who make this claim, you CONVENIENTLY have never tried what you are claiming that I
should do.... Nor will you EVER do it. Hypocrite.
.Phil .
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
