Mini hand pump or CO2 & spare tube or patch kit?

[Jkpoulos7]

>They are unthreaded, but I'm the only person who buys them from my LBS. So I buy a big bag at the
>beginning of the season and get a bit of a discount. But I'm going to check non-LBS sources for
>them next year.

Go to any x-mart and look in the paintball / bb gun aisle. CO2 carts are 15 for $6.00 or so. Well
worth not having to pump.

 

[Douglas Landau]

I agree. I carry C02 on my dirtbike for good measure but don't want to pay for it or carry it - or
run out of it - on the bicycle.

I carry a frame pump which I have used before, a patch kit, a tube, two plastic levers, and a presta
adapter for use at gas stations (haven't used it yet). I leave the CO2 and the phone at home (I'll
make it home by myself).

I use the patches first and the tube only if I have to. I really should carry a second tube but it
doesn't fit well in the under-seat bag. I should also be carrying a metal lever because the plastic
ones can break.

Since I use the tube rarely, I gotta protect it against chaffing: I remove the rubber band, put a
small piece of old innertube over the presta stem and nut, put the tube in a plastic bag, and put
the rubber band over that.

I often throw away glue after using it once and check it all the time.

Doug

Michel Schinz <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> I carry a good frame pump (a Zefal HPX, really wonderful), a patch kit, a spare tube and two
> tire levers.
>
> I heavily dislike CO2 cartridge, which are a complete nonsense in my opinion: first, because they
> are a waste, and second because they can be used only once. I once had four flats in a single, 100
> km tour, which were all due to a pretty destroyed tire, but at least I was able to go back home
> without calling mom.

 

[Gazoo]

probably inflated 10 or so with C02 w/o a problem.

--

"Zaf" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Cary Paugh <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > What do you carry? If I'm going to carry a hand pump I would want one of the very small < 6"
> > variety that would fit in my small seat pack or a CO2 type. I've never used either. Would you
> > carry a spare tube or patch kit?
>
> Without expection every time I have seen someone try to inflate a tire with CO2, they were not
> sucessful for one reason or another. There are some decent frame pumps, you may not be able to get
> 120#, but you'll get home.
>
> A patch kit will fix 95% of all flats in my experience and benifits from the ability to fix
> several flats on one ride. To get the remaining 5% of flats you need that spare tube.
>
> Now that I think about it, the only non patchable flat I've ever had was hitting the bottom of a
> bottle shading straight up, it cut the tire almost bead to bead also, so here even the spare tube
> was not enough!
>
>
> >
> > What about a tire removal tool? Three little plastic things that hook on the spokes or a "speed
> > stick"?

 

[dlj0]

In article <[email protected]>, "Gordon Dewis" <gordon@pinetree .org> writes:
>

>> I also find that CO2-inflated tires seem to go soft faster than
>air-inflated
>> tires. This has been discussed before, and others have found the same
>thing.
>
>Hm.
>
>I wonder if something in the valve doesn't like being frozen during the fill process. Perhaps
>something deforms slightly causing the valve to do a slow leak.

Could be, but there may also be something about the permeability of the tube to various gasses that
makes a difference.

David L. Johnson Department of Mathematics Lehigh University

 

[Chris Zacho "Th]

I carry a full size frame pump, spare tube and a patch kit. I prefer the full sized pump over CO2 or
a couple of reasons.

Cartridges only work once.

They aren't very effective against dogs.

As for carrying both tube and patches, well, some may think that's like wearing a belt with
suspenders, but I'm glad I had both on a recent ride where something very small embedded itself in
my tire's casing. It took the spare tube and two patches to get home. The fourth flat occurred about
500 feet from the ride finish.

Try as I could, I just couldn't get the offending whatever-it-was out of the casing on the road. So
it just kept pecking at the tube until it broke through (about 15-20 miles)

I finally did when I got home, using a magnifying glass and a heavy set of tweezers. Good thing I
was wearing that belt with my suspenders! :-3)

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

 

[Chris Zacho "Th]

[email protected] (Gordon=A0Dewis) contemplated: <snip>
>>I also find that CO2-inflated tires seem to go soft faster than air-inflated tires. This has been
>>discussed before, and others have found the same thing.

>Hmmm.

>I wonder if something in the valve doesn't like being frozen during the fill process. Perhaps
>something deforms slightly causing the valve to do a slow leak.

The CO2 (carbon dioxide) molecule is very small compared to the mixture of gasses that make up
"regular" air, so it creeps through the molecules of rubber in the tube faster.

This would include the valve, of course. But temperature has little to do with it, as the
temperature of the valve would quickly return to ambient after the inflation is finished.

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

 

[Ant]

Cary Paugh <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Well I was out for my evening ride about 6 miles from home and had my first flat where I was more
> than easy walking distance from my house. Fortunately I carry my cell phone and had my wife come
> pick me up but think I'd better be more prepared for the inevitable next time.
>
> What do you carry?

i carry a new spare tube, a patch kit, and one of those cheap mini pumps. i would go with just a
patch kit, but if i slice the tube, get a big pinch flat, the valvestem separates, etc, it would be
(practically) unpatchable. on my bike which has both shraeder and presta valves, i carry just the
presta spare, as it will work in the shraeder rim without much fuss. at least until i arrive home.

im not sure i understand the co2 cartridges. is everyone in such a hurry that they would risk being
stranded because of c02 problems so they could save one minute to pump their tube up with an
impractical but functional mini pump?

patching a tube takes very little time either. spread the glue thin, blow on it to help it flash,
and slap it together. ive never let patched tubes wait any time at all before inflating them to full
pressure. so far no problems, though these fixes have mostly been lower pressure (MTB) tires.

then again, YMMV. all these fixes have been on other folk's bikes. i havent flatted in three years,
and that was becuase i was running a rear tire missing large sections of tread rubber. i know it'll
come around eventually, but with a patch kit and a spare, i feel pretty darn prepared.

anthony

 

[Peter]

Chris Zacho The Wheelman wrote:

>>>I also find that CO2-inflated tires seem to go soft faster than air-inflated tires. This has been
>>>discussed before, and others have found the same thing.

> The CO2 (carbon dioxide) molecule is very small compared to the mixture of gasses that make up
> "regular" air, so it creeps through the molecules of rubber in the tube faster.

"Regular" air is almost all O2 and N2 (along with some water vapor and trace amounts of other
gases). According to my old Chem-Rubber handbook the molecular diameters are all about equal: oxygen
3.0 x 10^-8 cm nitrogen 3.2 x 10^-8 cm carbon dioxide 3.3 x 10^-8 cm

But you are correct that the diffusion rate through synthetic rubber is higher for carbon dioxide
than for either oxygen or nitrogen.

 

[Andrew Lee]

"Jkpoulos7" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> Go to any x-mart and look in the paintball / bb gun aisle. CO2 carts are
15 for
> $6.00 or so. Well worth not having to pump.

For you. I agree with some of the others who have posted. I don't like the waste, so I have always
used a standard sized pump. I have had a Silca for twenty years or so, and it has always worked for
me. It doesn't take me more than a minute to pump up a tire and I don't see why I need to avoid that
if it's not a racing situation. I do it quick - might as well get some arm exercise in.

I've never broken a tube's valve off using my Silca... probably bad pumping technique for
those that do.

I have had the experience of getting mulitple flats on a ride and also day after day. This happened
often when I was in jr. high and high school and I had no money, so a tire was still good for me
when the first cords showed, and wasn't tossed until a little later. And I was stuck, for a while at
least, (again for money reasons) using the skinny 20c tires that came on my bike (and many other
bikes back in the '80s), and thus got a lot of pinch flats. (I rode my road bike off road a lot
Jobst/Tom Ritchey style.) If I had been using CO2 with 2 cartridges back then, I would have been
stuck many times. And I would have had to make extra trips to the store in between to get more.

For tire/tube repairs, I normally carry a Silca, one tube, one normal patch kit, and one tire boot.
I sometimes go without a repair kit if it is a short ride and I am willing to risk walking or
running back... something I wouldn't really mind too much since I'm primarily a runner now. I don't
carry a cell phone (don't own one, and have never used one).

 

[Andrew Lee]

"Andrew Webster" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> I take a full size frame pump. As I see it benefits outstrip weight disadvantage and its easier to
> carry than a mini-pump

I agree. My old Silca, even with the metal Campagnolo head, seems pretty light to me. It couldn't
weigh significantly more many of the mini-pumps, some of which seem pretty heavy for the size when I
was looking in the store.

I don't carry tire levers, I've always been able to get my tires off with my bare hands on both my
road bike and my mountain bike.

 

[Rick Onanian]

On 08 Aug 2003 14:42:21 +0100 (BST), David Damerell <[email protected]> wrote:
> This is the correct technique for using CO2 inflators - wait for it to let you down, then wait for
> someone with a proper pump to come by, mock you, and inflate your tyres.

What kind of problems do people have using CO2 inflators?

Mine hasn't let me down.

--
Rick Onanian

 

[Rick Onanian]

On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 22:19:51 -0400 (EDT), Chris Zacho "The Wheelman <[email protected]> wrote:
> As for carrying both tube and patches, well, some may think that's like wearing a belt with
> suspenders, but I'm glad I had both on a recent ride I finally did when I got home, using a
> magnifying glass and a heavy set of tweezers. Good thing I was wearing that belt with my
> suspenders! :-3)

Also, if you can commit to carrying a tube, it's so incredibly trivial to add a patch kit; they are
tiny and lightweight, especially glueless.

I have recently bought a few Nashbar glueless patch kits. How well do glueless patches work? Can I
remove my glue-style kits to save some space now in my camelbak?

> May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris
>
> Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
--
Rick Onanian

 

[Rick Onanian]

On 8 Aug 2003 20:17:08 -0700, ant <[email protected]> wrote:
> im not sure i understand the co2 cartridges. is everyone in such a hurry that they would risk
> being stranded because of c02 problems so they could save one minute to pump their tube up with an
> impractical but functional mini pump?

It's better to carry both. The CO2 is great: -- When you don't want to hold up a group ride --
When it suddenly started raining and you don't want to get wet -- When you're really tired from
a long ride

A few weeks ago, in 95 degree farenheit / 70% humidity weather, after a long ride, I flatted (the
valve stem seperated from the tube, glad I brought a spare tube in addition to patches!). I was dead
tired and sweating bullets. I would have definately called people until I found somebody to come
rescue my ass if I _had_ to use a pump, I just didn't have the energy to do it and still ride home,
nor the willpower. Luckily, my CO2 was there for me.

> patching a tube takes very little time either. spread the glue thin, blow on it to help it flash,
> and slap it together. ive never let

Even easier with glueless patches, though I haven't yet used them and can't comment on their
effectiveness (others say they are good).

> patched tubes wait any time at all before inflating them to full pressure. so far no problems,
> though these fixes have mostly been lower pressure (MTB) tires.

I, too, have never waited any time, just inflate instantly. The glue you use is rubber contact
cement. Contact cements are applied wet and allowed to dry (doesn't take long) before you attach the
two items in question; and they adhere full strength on contact. That's why you can blow it up
immediately.

> around eventually, but with a patch kit and a spare, i feel pretty darn prepared.

Since you don't flat often at all, CO2 vs. pump pretty much doesn't matter. I'm the same way. OTOH,
people who _do_ flat often should have both, for situations where it's desirable to use one or the
other...unless they personally desire only one way, which is fine, too.

> anthony
--
Rick Onanian

 

[Fred Clydesdale]

> What kind of problems do people have using CO2 inflators?
>
> Mine hasn't let me down.

they can let you down if you have a really bad day, for example if you go riding downtown the day
after the big thumbtack parade.

mine's never let me down in the sense of leaving me stranded, but i remember a beautiful spring
saturday when i'd planned 150km and ended up cutting it to 75 because i had two flats in the space
of ten minutes. i had one more cartridge and no cel phone, so i decided to do the cowardly thing. i
went home and *watched* a 150km ride on tv.

 

[Mike Latondress]

Rick Onanian <[email protected]> wrote in news[email protected]:

>
> I have recently bought a few Nashbar glueless patch kits. How well do glueless patches work? Can I
> remove my glue-style kits to save some space now in my camelbak?
>
My experience with glueless is that they are a last resort if my two spare tubes get used up. They
work for a while (couple of weeks) but appear to get wrinkles in them that causes a leak.

 

[BaCardi]

Originally posted by Rick Onanian
I have recently bought a few Nashbar glueless patch kits. How well do glueless patches work? Can I
remove my glue-style kits to save some space now in my camelbak?

I have to warn everyone. Glueless patches SUCK! These things are horrible! They are tooo thin and are a total ripoff. If they made glueless patches with the thickness of a real patch then that would be great, but the ones on the market are sooo thin that they will patch your tube and then about 5 miles down the road, the hole in the tube that was patched will bust through the patch causing another flat in the same spot that the patch was supposed to cover.

Stay FAR FAR AWAY FROM GLUELESS PATCHES!!!!!!!

 

[Rick Onanian]

On 10 Aug 2003 07:13:11 +0950, BaCardi <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have to warn everyone. Glueless patches SUCK! These things are horrible! They are tooo thin and
> are a total ripoff. If they made

I thought they seemed kinda thin.

--
Rick Onanian

 

[dlj0]

In article <[email protected]>, Rick Onanian <[email protected]> writes:

>was dead tired and sweating bullets. I would have definately called people until I found somebody
>to come rescue my ass if I _had_ to use a pump,

Wuss

>Even easier with glueless patches, though I haven't yet used them and can't comment on their
>effectiveness (others say they are good).

For road tubes they are awful. They just can't handle the pressure. Real patches are easy enough,
but spare tubes are a better idea.

David L. Johnson Department of Mathematics Lehigh University

 

[John Albergo]

Cary Paugh wrote:

>Well I was out for my evening ride about 6 miles from home and had my first flat where I was more
>than easy walking distance from my house. Fortunately I carry my cell phone and had my wife come
>pick me up but think I'd better be more prepared for the inevitable next time.
>
>What do you carry? If I'm going to carry a hand pump I would want one of the very small < 6"
>variety that would fit in my small seat pack or a CO2 type. I've never used either. Would you carry
>a spare tube or patch kit?
>
>What about a tire removal tool? Three little plastic things that hook on the spokes or a
>"speed stick"?
>
>I'm not racing but hate to carry any more than I have to.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
>
Don't like the idea of a finite supply of "air", so I don't use CO2 inflators. A minipump seems like
a good idea but after about the 10th roadside flat repair I got fed up. It takes several hundred
strokes to get a good-sized 700C tire up to pressure and the whole time you're struggling not to
ruin the presta valve. I went out and got a Topeak Morph pump. Fantastic. I still hate getting flats
but I don't mind fixing them now. My patch equipment:

Topeak Road Morph patches (the permanent kind, with glue) spare tube plastic tire levers minipump
(never removed it from the bike; it weighs next to nothing and I figure it's worth it as a backup)

When I get a flat, I put on the spare tube, and patch the flat. Riding on a freshly patched tube can
result in a leak, but after a while the patch becomes permanent. Hopefully if/when you get a second
flat, the patched tube is ready to serve as your new "spare".

I understand the desire for minimal baggage, but really this stuff doesn't weigh much, and it's much
lighter than pushing the bike home. And better for the ego than calling for a ride.

 

[Andrew Webster]

"Gordon Dewis" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, "Gordon Dewis"
> <gordon@pinetree.
> > org> writes:
><cut>
> > I also find that CO2-inflated tires seem to go soft faster than
> air-inflated
> > tires. This has been discussed before, and others have found the same
> thing.
>
> Hm.
>
> I wonder if something in the valve doesn't like being frozen during the fill process. Perhaps
> something deforms slightly causing the valve to do a slow leak.

No, I don't think so. This is a well known solubility issue. CO2 is significantly more soluble in
rubber than are O2 and N2, hence it can cross the inner tube more easily and escape.

This is a well attested, measurable effect (search for solubility of gases in rubber), the reason
for it is less well understood and explanations vary. The solubility difference depends quite
markedly on the type of rubber.

(Helium escapes faster that air for a different reason - being smaller that O2 and N2 molecules
Helium diffuses faster through the tube than air).

Andrew Webster