Mini V brakes

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Alan Moffatt, Mar 31, 2006.

  1. Alan Moffatt

    Alan Moffatt Guest

    Hi all

    I'd like to convert at least the front brake of a tourer to V brakes.

    I'm told that the 'mini' V brakes (Tektro, Dia Compe) will work with
    ordinary [Ergopower] levers. Anyone know if this is true?

    Also, are the arms long enough to fit over a 32c tyre plus mudguard?

    Many thanks

    Alan
     
    Tags:


  2. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Alan Moffatt wrote:
    > I'd like to convert at least the front brake of a tourer to V brakes.


    Been there, done that.

    > I'm told that the 'mini' V brakes (Tektro, Dia Compe) will work with
    > ordinary [Ergopower] levers. Anyone know if this is true?


    Yes. You don't get much clearance, but they do work.

    > Also, are the arms long enough to fit over a 32c tyre plus mudguard?


    No. You either have to run the mudguards over the brakes, or cut the
    mudguards short of the brakes.

    If its just more braking power you are after, adjusting the geometry of
    the straddle wire to be as flat as possible can give you that. If that
    leads to flex in the canti bosses (which you would have got with V
    brakes too) adding a brake booster plate will go some way to sorting
    that out. Good brake pads, like kool stop mountains, will help a lot too.

    JimP

    --
    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
    grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
    all. - DNA
     
  3. Jim Price wrote:

    > Alan Moffatt wrote:


    > > I'm told that the 'mini' V brakes (Tektro, Dia Compe) will work with
    > > ordinary [Ergopower] levers. Anyone know if this is true?

    >
    > Yes. You don't get much clearance, but they do work.
    >


    I see Campag have introduced V-type brakes for 2006 - wonder if they
    work with Ergo levers, or are they solely intended for the flat-bar
    variant of the relevant groupsets (Mirage and - I think - Veloce)?

    David Belcher
     
  4. Alan Moffatt

    Alan Moffatt Guest

    Thanks, Jim. I suspected the mudguards would be the problem.

    The reason for wanting to change is that the bike in question has very
    little space between brake lever and cable hanger, and there's a Tektro top
    bar lever in there as well. I'm finding it next to impossible to get a good
    curve to the cable. So I thought that Vs would give me more room to work in.

    "Jim Price" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Alan Moffatt wrote:
    >> I'd like to convert at least the front brake of a tourer to V brakes.

    >
    > Been there, done that.
    >
    >> I'm told that the 'mini' V brakes (Tektro, Dia Compe) will work with
    >> ordinary [Ergopower] levers. Anyone know if this is true?

    >
    > Yes. You don't get much clearance, but they do work.
    >
    >> Also, are the arms long enough to fit over a 32c tyre plus mudguard?

    >
    > No. You either have to run the mudguards over the brakes, or cut the
    > mudguards short of the brakes.
    >
    > If its just more braking power you are after, adjusting the geometry of
    > the straddle wire to be as flat as possible can give you that. If that
    > leads to flex in the canti bosses (which you would have got with V brakes
    > too) adding a brake booster plate will go some way to sorting that out.
    > Good brake pads, like kool stop mountains, will help a lot too.
    >
    > JimP
    >
    > --
    > Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
    > grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
    > all. - DNA
     
  5. Doki

    Doki Guest

    "Alan Moffatt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Hi all
    >
    > I'd like to convert at least the front brake of a tourer to V brakes.
    >
    > I'm told that the 'mini' V brakes (Tektro, Dia Compe) will work with
    > ordinary [Ergopower] levers. Anyone know if this is true?
    >
    > Also, are the arms long enough to fit over a 32c tyre plus mudguard?


    No idea to either question, but you can get them cheap from on-one (£20),
    who put them on the Pompino (similar to the Kaffenbak).

    http://www.on-one.co.uk/index.php?m...er_op=view_page&PAGE_id=43&MMN_position=46:46
     
  6. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    David E. Belcher wrote:
    > I see Campag have introduced V-type brakes for 2006 - wonder if they
    > work with Ergo levers, or are they solely intended for the flat-bar
    > variant of the relevant groupsets (Mirage and - I think - Veloce)?


    There are some clues which suggest they will, e.g. here is a picture of
    the Campag flat bar controls operating a dual pivot front brake. Its at
    a bike show, so there's no guarantee its a working combination. That
    aside, there is also the possibility they have a long cable travel
    version of a dual pivot brake coming out as well, which would be an
    alternative explanation, but I have heard nothing about that. IMHO the
    most likely is that they will work with Ergo levers, as I already have a
    bike with Mirage Ergos and tektro mini-V's. A friend of mine has a bike
    with Ergos and full sized V's, and if they start scraping he just lets
    some cable out at the levers.

    I like the look of the zero gravity-like road callipers too. I just hope
    they make it to an affordable groupset soon.

    JimP

    --
    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
    grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
    all. - DNA
     
  7. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Alan Moffatt wrote:
    > Thanks, Jim. I suspected the mudguards would be the problem.
    >
    > The reason for wanting to change is that the bike in question has very
    > little space between brake lever and cable hanger, and there's a Tektro top
    > bar lever in there as well. I'm finding it next to impossible to get a good
    > curve to the cable. So I thought that Vs would give me more room to work in.


    There is another option which solves this problem - its a device
    intended to work with canti brakes where there isn't a way of attaching
    a cable hanger. It attaches where the upper mudguard mount is on the
    fork, so the straddle cable should clear the mudguard and the brake
    cable can be routed all the way to where the straddle cable is. They
    were selling them off cheap in Halfords some time ago, and I was buying
    them to get hold of the washers (they were that cheap). Lemme have a
    look in the parts bin and see if I can get some more details...

    JimP

    --
    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
    grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
    all. - DNA
     
  8. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Jim Price wrote:
    >Lemme have a look in the parts bin and see if I can get some more details...


    Right, that was easier than I thought it might be. Its called a Tektro
    Leverage Enhancement Hanger part number N1269A
    Its on this page:
    http://www.tektro.com/02products/15accessories.php
    The one shown is being used on the rear brake.

    JimP

    --
    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
    grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
    all. - DNA
     
  9. "Alan Moffatt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Hi all
    >
    > I'd like to convert at least the front brake of a tourer to V brakes.
    >
    > I'm told that the 'mini' V brakes (Tektro, Dia Compe) will work with
    > ordinary [Ergopower] levers. Anyone know if this is true?
    >
    > Also, are the arms long enough to fit over a 32c tyre plus mudguard?
    >
    > Many thanks
    >
    > Alan


    I've used standard Deore V-Brakes on my tourer with 32c's and SKS mudguards.
    These work fine with Dia-Compe 287V levers which come with noodles with
    adjusters.

    Ken.
     
  10. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Jim Price wrote:
    > David E. Belcher wrote:
    >> I see Campag have introduced V-type brakes for 2006 - wonder if they
    >> work with Ergo levers, or are they solely intended for the flat-bar
    >> variant of the relevant groupsets (Mirage and - I think - Veloce)?


    I think some gizmo ("Travel Agent"?) would be needed to pull Vs with
    Ergos.

    > There are some clues which suggest they will, e.g. here is a picture
    > of the Campag flat bar controls operating a dual pivot front brake.


    Campag have two versions of Flat Bar levers: one for calipers, one for Vs.

    ~PB
     
  11. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Pete Biggs wrote:
    > Jim Price wrote:
    >> David E. Belcher wrote:
    >>> I see Campag have introduced V-type brakes for 2006 - wonder if they
    >>> work with Ergo levers, or are they solely intended for the flat-bar
    >>> variant of the relevant groupsets (Mirage and - I think - Veloce)?

    >
    > I think some gizmo ("Travel Agent"?) would be needed to pull Vs with
    > Ergos.


    As I think I've just said recently in another [sub]thread, a friend of
    mine uses V's with Ergos and no extra gizmos - it works because he can
    release the levers if clearance becomes a problem. In practice, he rides
    with the levers released most of the time, but it works for him. I use
    STIs with Vs on my touring bike and build wheels which don't go out of
    true to compensate for the lack of clearance.

    >> There are some clues which suggest they will, e.g. here is a picture
    >> of the Campag flat bar controls operating a dual pivot front brake.

    >
    > Campag have two versions of Flat Bar levers: one for calipers, one for Vs.


    That I didn't know - the greatest kudos is going to go to whoever comes
    up with Ergo/STI levers which can operate any brakes (and gears for that
    matter, although with some hardware swapping, the gear thing can be done
    already with Modolo levers). I've been planning a mod to STIs to achieve
    this...

    JimP

    --
    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
    grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
    all. - DNA
     
  12. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Jim Price wrote:

    > As I think I've just said recently in another [sub]thread, a friend of
    > mine uses V's with Ergos and no extra gizmos - it works because he can
    > release the levers if clearance becomes a problem. In practice, he
    > rides with the levers released most of the time, but it works for
    > him. I use
    > STIs with Vs on my touring bike and build wheels which don't go out of
    > true to compensate for the lack of clearance.


    I wouldn't like that, personally. With Ergos + calipers and true wheels,
    I already have the brake blocks set as close to the rims as possible
    without rubbing to have the lever-feel I like.

    >> Campag have two versions of Flat Bar levers: one for calipers, one
    >> for Vs.

    >
    > That I didn't know - the greatest kudos is going to go to whoever
    > comes
    > up with Ergo/STI levers which can operate any brakes (and gears for
    > that matter, although with some hardware swapping, the gear thing can
    > be done already with Modolo levers). I've been planning a mod to STIs
    > to achieve this...


    It's interesting that Campag didn't copy Shimano's idea of switchable
    modes for their FBs. I don't know how practical it would be on road STIs
    or Ergos, though. Much extra bulk or junk wouldn't be nice. But easily
    adaptable (or even fine-tunable!) indexing would be nice indeed.
    Meantime, we have to carry on doing horrible things with cassettes and
    mechs.

    ~PB
     
  13. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Pete Biggs wrote:
    > Jim Price wrote:
    >> a friend of
    >> mine uses V's with Ergos and no extra gizmos

    >
    > I wouldn't like that, personally. With Ergos + calipers and true wheels,
    > I already have the brake blocks set as close to the rims as possible
    > without rubbing to have the lever-feel I like.


    I've tried his bike (well, I built it!) and the feel of the brakes is
    actually really good, as long as you like powerful brakes with a very
    light action - which is what was requested after he'd tried another
    slightly mad bike I built with flat bar canti levers and V brakes. Don't
    knock it 'till you've tried it!

    > It's interesting that Campag didn't copy Shimano's idea of switchable
    > modes for their FBs. I don't know how practical it would be on road STIs
    > or Ergos, though.


    My cunning plan will only work for STIs which have a slot for the brake
    cable holder - the slot could be "shimmed" to give more cable travel,
    especially in the early part of the pad movement, which is where the
    clearance is needed.

    > Much extra bulk or junk wouldn't be nice. But easily
    > adaptable (or even fine-tunable!) indexing would be nice indeed.


    Well, I suppose the Campag stuff almost has it, in that you could
    machine a new ratchet wheel to achieve that. That's not exactly easy
    though, and the Shimano stuff needs to be at least maintainable before
    I'm prepared to start playing with it proper.

    > Meantime, we have to carry on doing horrible things with cassettes and
    > mechs.


    As horrible as the names people come up with, like shimagnolo.

    JimP

    --
    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
    grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
    all. - DNA
     
  14. Doki

    Doki Guest

    "Jim Price" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Pete Biggs wrote:
    >> Jim Price wrote:
    >>> David E. Belcher wrote:
    >>>> I see Campag have introduced V-type brakes for 2006 - wonder if they
    >>>> work with Ergo levers, or are they solely intended for the flat-bar
    >>>> variant of the relevant groupsets (Mirage and - I think - Veloce)?

    >>
    >> I think some gizmo ("Travel Agent"?) would be needed to pull Vs with
    >> Ergos.

    >
    > As I think I've just said recently in another [sub]thread, a friend of
    > mine uses V's with Ergos and no extra gizmos - it works because he can
    > release the levers if clearance becomes a problem. In practice, he rides
    > with the levers released most of the time, but it works for him. I use
    > STIs with Vs on my touring bike and build wheels which don't go out of
    > true to compensate for the lack of clearance.
    >
    >>> There are some clues which suggest they will, e.g. here is a picture
    >>> of the Campag flat bar controls operating a dual pivot front brake.

    >>
    >> Campag have two versions of Flat Bar levers: one for calipers, one for
    >> Vs.

    >
    > That I didn't know - the greatest kudos is going to go to whoever comes up
    > with Ergo/STI levers which can operate any brakes (and gears for that
    > matter, although with some hardware swapping, the gear thing can be done
    > already with Modolo levers). I've been planning a mod to STIs to achieve
    > this...


    The brakes bit wouldn't be hard. Shimano have a vaguely similar mechanism to
    what would be needed in their expensive V brake levers (some XTs or XTRs I
    had). The cable pulling bit is attached to a bearing, and this bearing can
    move in a rounded oblong shaped slot on the lever. The effect of this, if
    you remove the shims to let it move about, is that the harder you pull the
    brakes, the less mechanical advantage you get. Which is nice, as it makes
    Vees nearly disk brake controllable. Add the ability to put shims at either
    end, and you'd be able to alter cable pull to match any brake.
     
  15. In article <[email protected]>, Jim Price
    ([email protected]) wrote:
    > Pete Biggs wrote:
    > > Jim Price wrote:
    > >> a friend of
    > >> mine uses V's with Ergos and no extra gizmos

    > >
    > > I wouldn't like that, personally. With Ergos + calipers and true wheels,
    > > I already have the brake blocks set as close to the rims as possible
    > > without rubbing to have the lever-feel I like.

    >
    > I've tried his bike (well, I built it!) and the feel of the brakes is
    > actually really good, as long as you like powerful brakes with a very
    > light action - which is what was requested after he'd tried another
    > slightly mad bike I built with flat bar canti levers and V brakes. Don't
    > knock it 'till you've tried it!
    >
    > > It's interesting that Campag didn't copy Shimano's idea of switchable
    > > modes for their FBs. I don't know how practical it would be on road STIs
    > > or Ergos, though.

    >
    > My cunning plan will only work for STIs which have a slot for the brake
    > cable holder - the slot could be "shimmed" to give more cable travel,
    > especially in the early part of the pad movement, which is where the
    > clearance is needed.
    >
    > > Much extra bulk or junk wouldn't be nice. But easily
    > > adaptable (or even fine-tunable!) indexing would be nice indeed.

    >
    > Well, I suppose the Campag stuff almost has it, in that you could
    > machine a new ratchet wheel to achieve that. That's not exactly easy
    > though, and the Shimano stuff needs to be at least maintainable before
    > I'm prepared to start playing with it proper.
    >
    > > Meantime, we have to carry on doing horrible things with cassettes and
    > > mechs.

    >
    > As horrible as the names people come up with, like shimagnolo.


    I should like to nominate "brifters" as one of the more Hateful
    Neologisms of recent memory...

    --
    Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
    Putting just the right amount of gin in your goldfish bowl makes the
    fishies' eyes bulge and causes them to swim in a very amusing manner.
     
  16. Tim Hall

    Tim Hall Guest

    On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:37:44 +0100, Dave Larrington
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, Jim Price


    >>
    >> As horrible as the names people come up with, like shimagnolo.

    >
    >I should like to nominate "brifters" as one of the more Hateful
    >Neologisms of recent memory...


    SPanDals too.


    <Rides off into the distance>



    Tim
     
  17. Jim Price

    Jim Price Guest

    Tim Hall wrote:
    > On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:37:44 +0100, Dave Larrington
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> In article <[email protected]>, Jim Price

    >
    >>> As horrible as the names people come up with, like shimagnolo.

    >> I should like to nominate "brifters" as one of the more Hateful
    >> Neologisms of recent memory...

    >
    > SPanDals too.
    >

    Thats just bike specific ones - on a more generic road traffic note, my
    least favourite has to be "yute", or SUV.

    JimP

    --
    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
    grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
    all. - DNA
     
  18. Jim Price wrote:
    > Pete Biggs wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Campag have two versions of Flat Bar levers: one for calipers, one for Vs.

    >
    > That I didn't know


    Neither did I. Puzzle solved - thanks Pete!

    David Belcher
     
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