minnesota bicyclists arrested
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C
On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:06:34 -0600, [email protected] wrote:
>http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
[Odd, the link requires a login and password, but somehow I got there
without ever signing up--probably the referring site has some sneaky
trick. Here's the article.]
Police arrested 19 bicyclists, including three juveniles, after a
protest ride took an ugly turn in downtown Minneapolis Friday night.
About 200 bicyclists were riding on La Salle Avenue, with two officers
monitoring the protest that called for reduced reliance on automobile
transportation. The ride was also linked with weekend protests of next
year's Republican National Convention in the Twin Cities.
When officers tried to arrest a rider they felt had been trying to
provoke them, a scuffle broke out, said Minneapolis Police Lt. Marie
Przynski.
"When the officer went to arrest him, his buddy came up, and they
started to struggle with the officer," Przynski said.
A group surrounded the officers, and begin to chant "Let them go!"Then
several people tried to prevent the officers from arresting these
individuals," she said, and a skirmish ensued.
Soon, the two officers were surrounded by about 30 people, and they
issued the call "officer needs help."
That brought 48 officers from six different law enforcement agencies
racing to the scene, where the situation escalated and the officers
used chemical Mace in an attempt to control the crowd, Przynski said.
Police then called in medics to examine people who were sprayed. Some
officers had minor injuries, such as scrapes, but nobody was seriously
injured, said Przynski, the night watch commander.
It was unclear, Przynski said, if the first people arrested were
affiliated with the convention protest group. The lieutenant also said
that a State Patrol helicopter had videotaped part of the event, and
that documentation would be included in what police are now reviewing.
Police said they have had little trouble with recent rallies staged by
Critical Mass, a loosely organized group that opposes society's heavy
use of motor vehicles.
"We've never had a problem with Critical Mass, the rally," she said.
"We agree with them that we need to lessen our dependence on the
automobile. Apparently, they had some infiltrators or outsiders who
joined the rally tonight. And these outsiders were trying to provoke
the officers."
The adults were arrested on suspicion of rioting, a gross misdemeanor
>http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
[Odd, the link requires a login and password, but somehow I got there
without ever signing up--probably the referring site has some sneaky
trick. Here's the article.]
Police arrested 19 bicyclists, including three juveniles, after a
protest ride took an ugly turn in downtown Minneapolis Friday night.
About 200 bicyclists were riding on La Salle Avenue, with two officers
monitoring the protest that called for reduced reliance on automobile
transportation. The ride was also linked with weekend protests of next
year's Republican National Convention in the Twin Cities.
When officers tried to arrest a rider they felt had been trying to
provoke them, a scuffle broke out, said Minneapolis Police Lt. Marie
Przynski.
"When the officer went to arrest him, his buddy came up, and they
started to struggle with the officer," Przynski said.
A group surrounded the officers, and begin to chant "Let them go!"Then
several people tried to prevent the officers from arresting these
individuals," she said, and a skirmish ensued.
Soon, the two officers were surrounded by about 30 people, and they
issued the call "officer needs help."
That brought 48 officers from six different law enforcement agencies
racing to the scene, where the situation escalated and the officers
used chemical Mace in an attempt to control the crowd, Przynski said.
Police then called in medics to examine people who were sprayed. Some
officers had minor injuries, such as scrapes, but nobody was seriously
injured, said Przynski, the night watch commander.
It was unclear, Przynski said, if the first people arrested were
affiliated with the convention protest group. The lieutenant also said
that a State Patrol helicopter had videotaped part of the event, and
that documentation would be included in what police are now reviewing.
Police said they have had little trouble with recent rallies staged by
Critical Mass, a loosely organized group that opposes society's heavy
use of motor vehicles.
"We've never had a problem with Critical Mass, the rally," she said.
"We agree with them that we need to lessen our dependence on the
automobile. Apparently, they had some infiltrators or outsiders who
joined the rally tonight. And these outsiders were trying to provoke
the officers."
The adults were arrested on suspicion of rioting, a gross misdemeanor
D
DI
Guest
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:06:34 -0600, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
>
> [Odd, the link requires a login and password, but somehow I got there
> without ever signing up--probably the referring site has some sneaky
> trick. Here's the article.]
>
> Police arrested 19 bicyclists, including three juveniles, after a
> protest ride took an ugly turn in downtown Minneapolis Friday night.
> About 200 bicyclists were riding on La Salle Avenue, with two officers
> monitoring the protest that called for reduced reliance on automobile
> transportation. The ride was also linked with weekend protests of next
> year's Republican National Convention in the Twin Cities.
>
> When officers tried to arrest a rider they felt had been trying to
> provoke them, a scuffle broke out, said Minneapolis Police Lt. Marie
> Przynski.
>
> "When the officer went to arrest him, his buddy came up, and they
> started to struggle with the officer," Przynski said.
>
> A group surrounded the officers, and begin to chant "Let them go!"Then
> several people tried to prevent the officers from arresting these
> individuals," she said, and a skirmish ensued.
>
> Soon, the two officers were surrounded by about 30 people, and they
> issued the call "officer needs help."
>
> That brought 48 officers from six different law enforcement agencies
> racing to the scene, where the situation escalated and the officers
> used chemical Mace in an attempt to control the crowd, Przynski said.
>
> Police then called in medics to examine people who were sprayed. Some
> officers had minor injuries, such as scrapes, but nobody was seriously
> injured, said Przynski, the night watch commander.
>
> It was unclear, Przynski said, if the first people arrested were
> affiliated with the convention protest group. The lieutenant also said
> that a State Patrol helicopter had videotaped part of the event, and
> that documentation would be included in what police are now reviewing.
>
> Police said they have had little trouble with recent rallies staged by
> Critical Mass, a loosely organized group that opposes society's heavy
> use of motor vehicles.
>
> "We've never had a problem with Critical Mass, the rally," she said.
> "We agree with them that we need to lessen our dependence on the
> automobile. Apparently, they had some infiltrators or outsiders who
> joined the rally tonight. And these outsiders were trying to provoke
> the officers."
>
> The adults were arrested on suspicion of rioting, a gross misdemeanor
>
I got to the link w/o any problems
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:06:34 -0600, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
>
> [Odd, the link requires a login and password, but somehow I got there
> without ever signing up--probably the referring site has some sneaky
> trick. Here's the article.]
>
> Police arrested 19 bicyclists, including three juveniles, after a
> protest ride took an ugly turn in downtown Minneapolis Friday night.
> About 200 bicyclists were riding on La Salle Avenue, with two officers
> monitoring the protest that called for reduced reliance on automobile
> transportation. The ride was also linked with weekend protests of next
> year's Republican National Convention in the Twin Cities.
>
> When officers tried to arrest a rider they felt had been trying to
> provoke them, a scuffle broke out, said Minneapolis Police Lt. Marie
> Przynski.
>
> "When the officer went to arrest him, his buddy came up, and they
> started to struggle with the officer," Przynski said.
>
> A group surrounded the officers, and begin to chant "Let them go!"Then
> several people tried to prevent the officers from arresting these
> individuals," she said, and a skirmish ensued.
>
> Soon, the two officers were surrounded by about 30 people, and they
> issued the call "officer needs help."
>
> That brought 48 officers from six different law enforcement agencies
> racing to the scene, where the situation escalated and the officers
> used chemical Mace in an attempt to control the crowd, Przynski said.
>
> Police then called in medics to examine people who were sprayed. Some
> officers had minor injuries, such as scrapes, but nobody was seriously
> injured, said Przynski, the night watch commander.
>
> It was unclear, Przynski said, if the first people arrested were
> affiliated with the convention protest group. The lieutenant also said
> that a State Patrol helicopter had videotaped part of the event, and
> that documentation would be included in what police are now reviewing.
>
> Police said they have had little trouble with recent rallies staged by
> Critical Mass, a loosely organized group that opposes society's heavy
> use of motor vehicles.
>
> "We've never had a problem with Critical Mass, the rally," she said.
> "We agree with them that we need to lessen our dependence on the
> automobile. Apparently, they had some infiltrators or outsiders who
> joined the rally tonight. And these outsiders were trying to provoke
> the officers."
>
> The adults were arrested on suspicion of rioting, a gross misdemeanor
>
I got to the link w/o any problems
J
!Jones
Guest
On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:06:34 -0600, in rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected] wrote:
>http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
A friend there said they were "Critical Mass"; I thought that bunch
was defunct.
Put 'em under the jail, I say!
Jones
[email protected] wrote:
>http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
A friend there said they were "Critical Mass"; I thought that bunch
was defunct.
Put 'em under the jail, I say!
Jones
T
Tim McNamara
Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
!Jones <****@off.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:06:34 -0600, in rec.bicycles.tech
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
>
> A friend there said they were "Critical Mass"; I thought that bunch
> was defunct.
Critical Mass rides happen monthly in dozens of cities. Far from
defunct.
> Put 'em under the jail, I say!
While I have doubts about the efficacy of Critical Mass rides in
reducing the car culture, that seems a bit harsh to me.
!Jones <****@off.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:06:34 -0600, in rec.bicycles.tech
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
>
> A friend there said they were "Critical Mass"; I thought that bunch
> was defunct.
Critical Mass rides happen monthly in dozens of cities. Far from
defunct.
> Put 'em under the jail, I say!
While I have doubts about the efficacy of Critical Mass rides in
reducing the car culture, that seems a bit harsh to me.
L
landotter
Guest
On Sep 1, 3:04 pm, Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
>
> !Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:06:34 -0600, in rec.bicycles.tech
> > [email protected] wrote:
>
> > >http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
>
> > A friend there said they were "Critical Mass"; I thought that bunch
> > was defunct.
>
> Critical Mass rides happen monthly in dozens of cities. Far from
> defunct.
>
> > Put 'em under the jail, I say!
>
> While I have doubts about the efficacy of Critical Mass rides in
> reducing the car culture, that seems a bit harsh to me.
The two Critical Mass rides I tried up in Chicago were the nastiest
cycling events I've ever experienced. If they behaved anything like
those self righteous, and often violent trustafarians--I'm also for
letting them cool their heels in jail. Some of these kids need a
reality check.
> In article <[email protected]>,
>
> !Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:06:34 -0600, in rec.bicycles.tech
> > [email protected] wrote:
>
> > >http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
>
> > A friend there said they were "Critical Mass"; I thought that bunch
> > was defunct.
>
> Critical Mass rides happen monthly in dozens of cities. Far from
> defunct.
>
> > Put 'em under the jail, I say!
>
> While I have doubts about the efficacy of Critical Mass rides in
> reducing the car culture, that seems a bit harsh to me.
The two Critical Mass rides I tried up in Chicago were the nastiest
cycling events I've ever experienced. If they behaved anything like
those self righteous, and often violent trustafarians--I'm also for
letting them cool their heels in jail. Some of these kids need a
reality check.
T
Tim McNamara
Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sep 1, 3:04 pm, Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> >
> > !Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:06:34 -0600, in rec.bicycles.tech
> > > [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > > >http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
> >
> > > A friend there said they were "Critical Mass"; I thought that
> > > bunch was defunct.
> >
> > Critical Mass rides happen monthly in dozens of cities. Far from
> > defunct.
> >
> > > Put 'em under the jail, I say!
> >
> > While I have doubts about the efficacy of Critical Mass rides in
> > reducing the car culture, that seems a bit harsh to me.
>
> The two Critical Mass rides I tried up in Chicago were the nastiest
> cycling events I've ever experienced. If they behaved anything like
> those self righteous, and often violent trustafarians--I'm also for
> letting them cool their heels in jail. Some of these kids need a
> reality check.
Being nasty is not a crime. Being self-righteous is not a crime. Being
a "trustafarian" (which IME is not who is showing up at Critical Mass
rides- they are usually the ones in the SUVs with a cell phone and a Red
Bull and the subwoofer cranked up blasting out rap to show that they are
down with the brothers, fuming while they have to wait for the
procession of mere cyclists) is not a crime although it frequently leads
to poor taste and self-indulgence.
Violence is a crime. Attacking a police officer or interfering with an
arrest is a crime. For that, an arrest and possible prosecution is
appropriate. 48 officers were involved in the arrest of 19 individuals
on "suspicion of rioting" charges, a gross misdemeanor:
"Subdivision 1. Riot first degree. When three or more persons assembled
disturb the public peace by an intentional act or threat of unlawful
force or violence to person or property and a death results, and one of
the persons is armed with a dangerous weapon, that person is guilty of
riot first degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more
than 20 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $35,000, or
both.
"Subd. 2. Riot second degree. When three or more persons assembled
disturb the public peace by an intentional act or threat of unlawful
force or violence to person or property, each participant who is armed
with a dangerous weapon or knows that any other participant is armed
with a dangerous weapon is guilty of riot second degree and may be
sentenced to imprisonment for not more than five years or to payment of
a fine of not more than $10,000, or both.
"Subd. 3. Riot third degree. When three or more persons assembled
disturb the public peace by an intentional act or threat of unlawful
force or violence to person or property, each participant therein is
guilty of riot third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for
not more than one year or to payment of a fine of not more than $1,000,
or both."
If convicted, it could be an expensive Friday evening bike ride. That
might be something of a reality check for them.
landotter <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sep 1, 3:04 pm, Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> >
> > !Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:06:34 -0600, in rec.bicycles.tech
> > > [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > > >http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
> >
> > > A friend there said they were "Critical Mass"; I thought that
> > > bunch was defunct.
> >
> > Critical Mass rides happen monthly in dozens of cities. Far from
> > defunct.
> >
> > > Put 'em under the jail, I say!
> >
> > While I have doubts about the efficacy of Critical Mass rides in
> > reducing the car culture, that seems a bit harsh to me.
>
> The two Critical Mass rides I tried up in Chicago were the nastiest
> cycling events I've ever experienced. If they behaved anything like
> those self righteous, and often violent trustafarians--I'm also for
> letting them cool their heels in jail. Some of these kids need a
> reality check.
Being nasty is not a crime. Being self-righteous is not a crime. Being
a "trustafarian" (which IME is not who is showing up at Critical Mass
rides- they are usually the ones in the SUVs with a cell phone and a Red
Bull and the subwoofer cranked up blasting out rap to show that they are
down with the brothers, fuming while they have to wait for the
procession of mere cyclists) is not a crime although it frequently leads
to poor taste and self-indulgence.
Violence is a crime. Attacking a police officer or interfering with an
arrest is a crime. For that, an arrest and possible prosecution is
appropriate. 48 officers were involved in the arrest of 19 individuals
on "suspicion of rioting" charges, a gross misdemeanor:
"Subdivision 1. Riot first degree. When three or more persons assembled
disturb the public peace by an intentional act or threat of unlawful
force or violence to person or property and a death results, and one of
the persons is armed with a dangerous weapon, that person is guilty of
riot first degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more
than 20 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $35,000, or
both.
"Subd. 2. Riot second degree. When three or more persons assembled
disturb the public peace by an intentional act or threat of unlawful
force or violence to person or property, each participant who is armed
with a dangerous weapon or knows that any other participant is armed
with a dangerous weapon is guilty of riot second degree and may be
sentenced to imprisonment for not more than five years or to payment of
a fine of not more than $10,000, or both.
"Subd. 3. Riot third degree. When three or more persons assembled
disturb the public peace by an intentional act or threat of unlawful
force or violence to person or property, each participant therein is
guilty of riot third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for
not more than one year or to payment of a fine of not more than $1,000,
or both."
If convicted, it could be an expensive Friday evening bike ride. That
might be something of a reality check for them.
D
Doug Taylor
Guest
On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:10:27 -0500, Tim McNamara
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Being nasty is not a crime. Being self-righteous is not a crime. Being
>a "trustafarian" (which IME is not who is showing up at Critical Mass
>rides- they are usually the ones in the SUVs with a cell phone and a Red
>Bull and the subwoofer cranked up blasting out rap to show that they are
>down with the brothers, fuming while they have to wait for the
>procession of mere cyclists) is not a crime although it frequently leads
>to poor taste and self-indulgence.
>
>Violence is a crime. Attacking a police officer or interfering with an
>arrest is a crime. For that, an arrest and possible prosecution is
>appropriate. 48 officers were involved in the arrest of 19 individuals
>on "suspicion of rioting" charges, a gross misdemeanor:
>
Also quoting from the article:
I have no problem with the notion of an adult assaulting a police
officer being arre4sted and prosecuted. The misdemeanor riot charge
is a gift.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Being nasty is not a crime. Being self-righteous is not a crime. Being
>a "trustafarian" (which IME is not who is showing up at Critical Mass
>rides- they are usually the ones in the SUVs with a cell phone and a Red
>Bull and the subwoofer cranked up blasting out rap to show that they are
>down with the brothers, fuming while they have to wait for the
>procession of mere cyclists) is not a crime although it frequently leads
>to poor taste and self-indulgence.
>
>Violence is a crime. Attacking a police officer or interfering with an
>arrest is a crime. For that, an arrest and possible prosecution is
>appropriate. 48 officers were involved in the arrest of 19 individuals
>on "suspicion of rioting" charges, a gross misdemeanor:
>
Also quoting from the article:
"We've never had a problem with Critical Mass, the rally," she
said. "We agree with them that we need to lessen our dependence on the
automobile. Apparently, they had some infiltrators or outsiders who
joined the rally tonight. And these outsiders were trying to provoke
the officers."
The adults were arrested on suspicion of rioting, a gross
misdemeanor.
I have no problem with the notion of an adult assaulting a police
officer being arre4sted and prosecuted. The misdemeanor riot charge
is a gift.
J
!Jones
Guest
On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:04:19 -0500, in rec.bicycles.tech Tim McNamara
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> !Jones <****@off.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:06:34 -0600, in rec.bicycles.tech
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
>>
>> A friend there said they were "Critical Mass"; I thought that bunch
>> was defunct.
>
>Critical Mass rides happen monthly in dozens of cities. Far from
>defunct.
>
>> Put 'em under the jail, I say!
>
>While I have doubts about the efficacy of Critical Mass rides in
>reducing the car culture, that seems a bit harsh to me.
Well, essentially Critical Mass (CM) is what's wrong with our social
fabric. It's not about bicycles, it's about civil behavior... the
fact that I believe myself to be a victim does not allow me to
infringe the rights of others. When a CM rider runs a red light and
causes a driver with a clear right of way to slam on his or her
brakes, then the cyclist is wrong.
How did Pogo put it back in '70? "We have met the enemy and he is
us." It's an identical mentality... the only difference is the number
of wheels your vehicle has on the ground, which, IMO, is irrelevant.
Jones... who remains unconvinced but is still listening.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> !Jones <****@off.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:06:34 -0600, in rec.bicycles.tech
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> >http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
>>
>> A friend there said they were "Critical Mass"; I thought that bunch
>> was defunct.
>
>Critical Mass rides happen monthly in dozens of cities. Far from
>defunct.
>
>> Put 'em under the jail, I say!
>
>While I have doubts about the efficacy of Critical Mass rides in
>reducing the car culture, that seems a bit harsh to me.
Well, essentially Critical Mass (CM) is what's wrong with our social
fabric. It's not about bicycles, it's about civil behavior... the
fact that I believe myself to be a victim does not allow me to
infringe the rights of others. When a CM rider runs a red light and
causes a driver with a clear right of way to slam on his or her
brakes, then the cyclist is wrong.
How did Pogo put it back in '70? "We have met the enemy and he is
us." It's an identical mentality... the only difference is the number
of wheels your vehicle has on the ground, which, IMO, is irrelevant.
Jones... who remains unconvinced but is still listening.
J
!Jones
Guest
On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 20:22:36 -0000, in rec.bicycles.tech landotter
<[email protected]> wrote:
>The two Critical Mass rides I tried up in Chicago were the nastiest
>cycling events I've ever experienced. If they behaved anything like
>those self righteous, and often violent trustafarians--I'm also for
>letting them cool their heels in jail. Some of these kids need a
>reality check.
My wife and I were riding in Austin, TX when a CM ride passed us. We
dismounted our tandem and walked. And I *agree* with CM's position...
but I will not be associated in any way with their behavior.
Jones
<[email protected]> wrote:
>The two Critical Mass rides I tried up in Chicago were the nastiest
>cycling events I've ever experienced. If they behaved anything like
>those self righteous, and often violent trustafarians--I'm also for
>letting them cool their heels in jail. Some of these kids need a
>reality check.
My wife and I were riding in Austin, TX when a CM ride passed us. We
dismounted our tandem and walked. And I *agree* with CM's position...
but I will not be associated in any way with their behavior.
Jones
L
Leo Lichtman
Guest
Quoting a police spokesperson: (clip) "We've never had a problem with
Critical Mass, the rally," she said. "We agree with them that we need to
lessen our dependence on the automobile. Apparently, they had some
infiltrators or outsiders who joined the rally tonight. And these outsiders
were trying to provoke the officers." (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It is refreshing to see that the police have a reasonable approach to what
happened, and do not treat Critical Mass as "the enemy," the way many of the
responders to this thread seem do.
I have very little use for Critical Mass, because their actions are
calculated to create inconvenience, and this increases hostility among the
non-riding public. It evidently creates hostility among riders, as well.
This is no reason to throw them "under the jail."
>
> The adults were arrested on suspicion of rioting, a gross misdemeanor
>
Critical Mass, the rally," she said. "We agree with them that we need to
lessen our dependence on the automobile. Apparently, they had some
infiltrators or outsiders who joined the rally tonight. And these outsiders
were trying to provoke the officers." (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It is refreshing to see that the police have a reasonable approach to what
happened, and do not treat Critical Mass as "the enemy," the way many of the
responders to this thread seem do.
I have very little use for Critical Mass, because their actions are
calculated to create inconvenience, and this increases hostility among the
non-riding public. It evidently creates hostility among riders, as well.
This is no reason to throw them "under the jail."
>
> The adults were arrested on suspicion of rioting, a gross misdemeanor
>
V
velodancer
Guest
On Sep 1, 6:08 pm, "Leo Lichtman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have very little use for Critical Mass, because their actions are
> calculated to create inconvenience,
Protests that cause no inconvenience have zero effect. Civil
disobedience is just that. In the case of Critical Mass rides, there
is very little inconvenience relative to what happened in the '60s. In
larger cities, they have a police escort for public safety. Hard to
see how that is more inconvenient than streets closed off for a
marathon or bike race.
I think the protest message that Critical Mass is trying to impart is
the difficulty and inequity that bicycles have commuting in cities
versus cars. Amazing that even posters here find that small
inconvenience offensive!
> I have very little use for Critical Mass, because their actions are
> calculated to create inconvenience,
Protests that cause no inconvenience have zero effect. Civil
disobedience is just that. In the case of Critical Mass rides, there
is very little inconvenience relative to what happened in the '60s. In
larger cities, they have a police escort for public safety. Hard to
see how that is more inconvenient than streets closed off for a
marathon or bike race.
I think the protest message that Critical Mass is trying to impart is
the difficulty and inequity that bicycles have commuting in cities
versus cars. Amazing that even posters here find that small
inconvenience offensive!
M
Michael Press
Guest
In article
<[email protected]>,
!Jones <****@off.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:04:19 -0500, in rec.bicycles.tech Tim McNamara
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > !Jones <****@off.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:06:34 -0600, in rec.bicycles.tech
> >> [email protected] wrote:
> >>
> >> >http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
> >>
> >> A friend there said they were "Critical Mass"; I thought that bunch
> >> was defunct.
> >
> >Critical Mass rides happen monthly in dozens of cities. Far from
> >defunct.
> >
> >> Put 'em under the jail, I say!
> >
> >While I have doubts about the efficacy of Critical Mass rides in
> >reducing the car culture, that seems a bit harsh to me.
>
> Well, essentially Critical Mass (CM) is what's wrong with our social
> fabric. It's not about bicycles, it's about civil behavior... the
> fact that I believe myself to be a victim does not allow me to
> infringe the rights of others. When a CM rider runs a red light and
> causes a driver with a clear right of way to slam on his or her
> brakes, then the cyclist is wrong.
>
> How did Pogo put it back in '70? "We have met the enemy and he is
> us." It's an identical mentality... the only difference is the number
> of wheels your vehicle has on the ground, which, IMO, is irrelevant.
No, not the 1970's. Walt Kelly drew and wrote Pogo.
----------------
Deck us all with Boston Charlie,
Walla Walla, Wash., an' Kalamazoo!
Nora's freezin' on the trolley,
Swaller dollar cauliflower alley-garoo!
Don't we know archaic barrel,
Lullaby Lilla boy, Louisville Lou?
Trolley Molly don't love Harold,
Boola boola Pensacoola hullabaloo!
Bark us all bow-wows of folly,
Polly wolly cracker n' too-da-loo!
Hunky Dory's pop is lolly gaggin' on the wagon,
*****, folly go through!
Donkey Bonny brays a carol,
Antelope Cantaloup, 'lope with you!
Chollie's collie barks at Barrow,
Harum scarum five alarum bung-a-loo!
----------------
I think I know what happened to Gene Daniels.
--
Michael Press
<[email protected]>,
!Jones <****@off.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:04:19 -0500, in rec.bicycles.tech Tim McNamara
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > !Jones <****@off.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:06:34 -0600, in rec.bicycles.tech
> >> [email protected] wrote:
> >>
> >> >http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
> >>
> >> A friend there said they were "Critical Mass"; I thought that bunch
> >> was defunct.
> >
> >Critical Mass rides happen monthly in dozens of cities. Far from
> >defunct.
> >
> >> Put 'em under the jail, I say!
> >
> >While I have doubts about the efficacy of Critical Mass rides in
> >reducing the car culture, that seems a bit harsh to me.
>
> Well, essentially Critical Mass (CM) is what's wrong with our social
> fabric. It's not about bicycles, it's about civil behavior... the
> fact that I believe myself to be a victim does not allow me to
> infringe the rights of others. When a CM rider runs a red light and
> causes a driver with a clear right of way to slam on his or her
> brakes, then the cyclist is wrong.
>
> How did Pogo put it back in '70? "We have met the enemy and he is
> us." It's an identical mentality... the only difference is the number
> of wheels your vehicle has on the ground, which, IMO, is irrelevant.
No, not the 1970's. Walt Kelly drew and wrote Pogo.
----------------
Deck us all with Boston Charlie,
Walla Walla, Wash., an' Kalamazoo!
Nora's freezin' on the trolley,
Swaller dollar cauliflower alley-garoo!
Don't we know archaic barrel,
Lullaby Lilla boy, Louisville Lou?
Trolley Molly don't love Harold,
Boola boola Pensacoola hullabaloo!
Bark us all bow-wows of folly,
Polly wolly cracker n' too-da-loo!
Hunky Dory's pop is lolly gaggin' on the wagon,
*****, folly go through!
Donkey Bonny brays a carol,
Antelope Cantaloup, 'lope with you!
Chollie's collie barks at Barrow,
Harum scarum five alarum bung-a-loo!
----------------
I think I know what happened to Gene Daniels.
--
Michael Press
C
Chalo
Guest
!Jones wrote:
>
> My wife and I were riding in Austin, TX when a CM ride passed us. We
> dismounted our tandem and walked. And I *agree* with CM's position...
> but I will not be associated in any way with their behavior.
But you'll drive in freeway traffic, I guess. Behavior
notwithstanding.
If you've never ridden in a Critical Mass, you're missing out. It's
fun. It's wholesome. (If it ain't fun, it ain't a proper Mass.)
All of us have to do a lot of unnecessary waiting for car traffic, by
design. If once a month, a handful of car drivers have to do a bit of
unnecessary waiting for us, so much the better. How else are we to
make our point (in a way that will actually be heard, that is)?
Chalo
>
> My wife and I were riding in Austin, TX when a CM ride passed us. We
> dismounted our tandem and walked. And I *agree* with CM's position...
> but I will not be associated in any way with their behavior.
But you'll drive in freeway traffic, I guess. Behavior
notwithstanding.
If you've never ridden in a Critical Mass, you're missing out. It's
fun. It's wholesome. (If it ain't fun, it ain't a proper Mass.)
All of us have to do a lot of unnecessary waiting for car traffic, by
design. If once a month, a handful of car drivers have to do a bit of
unnecessary waiting for us, so much the better. How else are we to
make our point (in a way that will actually be heard, that is)?
Chalo
J
!Jones
Guest
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 06:49:34 -0000, in rec.bicycles.tech Chalo
<[email protected]> wrote:
>How else are we to
>make our point (in a way that will actually be heard, that is)?
When you're on the road, regardless of what you happen to be
operating, observe the traffic laws and be considerate of others. I
learned *that* in grade school. Realize that the fact that some
people did not get it then does not excuse rude or boorish behavior on
your part (generic second person).
You won't be heard; however you will make a difference! By refusing
to be a jerk, you will insure that there will be one fewer jerk on the
road. I find that it helps my attitude to know that, today at least,
I was not a part of the madness... and CM is.
Jones
<[email protected]> wrote:
>How else are we to
>make our point (in a way that will actually be heard, that is)?
When you're on the road, regardless of what you happen to be
operating, observe the traffic laws and be considerate of others. I
learned *that* in grade school. Realize that the fact that some
people did not get it then does not excuse rude or boorish behavior on
your part (generic second person).
You won't be heard; however you will make a difference! By refusing
to be a jerk, you will insure that there will be one fewer jerk on the
road. I find that it helps my attitude to know that, today at least,
I was not a part of the madness... and CM is.
Jones
J
!Jones
Guest
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 04:57:25 GMT, in rec.bicycles.tech Michael Press
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> How did Pogo put it back in '70? "We have met the enemy and he is
>> us." It's an identical mentality... the only difference is the number
>> of wheels your vehicle has on the ground, which, IMO, is irrelevant.
>
>No, not the 1970's. Walt Kelly drew and wrote Pogo.
Well, I had a copy of the poster above my army bunk in Vietnam. That
would have been '71. As I recall, Kelly released it for the first
"Earth Day" in 1970 and the cartoon version was slightly earlier.
Yes... I just found the poster, yellow with age and tattered... and it
says, "Copyright 1970" in still visable printing.
Can't believe I could find that. Now, where are my house keys?
Jones
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> How did Pogo put it back in '70? "We have met the enemy and he is
>> us." It's an identical mentality... the only difference is the number
>> of wheels your vehicle has on the ground, which, IMO, is irrelevant.
>
>No, not the 1970's. Walt Kelly drew and wrote Pogo.
Well, I had a copy of the poster above my army bunk in Vietnam. That
would have been '71. As I recall, Kelly released it for the first
"Earth Day" in 1970 and the cartoon version was slightly earlier.
Yes... I just found the poster, yellow with age and tattered... and it
says, "Copyright 1970" in still visable printing.
Can't believe I could find that. Now, where are my house keys?
Jones
Q
Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com
Guest
On Sep 1, 11:06 am, [email protected] wrote:
> http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
How about-'protesters who were riding bicycles got arrested'..it was
about civil disobedience, not riding a bike.
> http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
How about-'protesters who were riding bicycles got arrested'..it was
about civil disobedience, not riding a bike.
J
!Jones
Guest
On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 19:32:13 -0400, in rec.bicycles.tech Doug Taylor
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
"Suspicion of rioting", huh? I like that almost as much as the
riders' pick-up trucks.
Essentially, I would agree with CM. Philosophically, I agree with
Timothy McVeigh... or did before he was strapped to the gurney. There
are lots of things wrong with our society and, many times, I feel like
acting... and this probably involves sustained automatic weapons fire.
I don't *do* that because such behavior carries severe penalties. I
am fully in favor of allowing the people who choose to participate in
a CM "coincidence" and subsequently violate the law in any way to
suffer the consequences thereof.
Jones
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
"We've never had a problem with Critical Mass, the rally," she
>said. "We agree with them that we need to lessen our dependence on the
>automobile. Apparently, they had some infiltrators or outsiders who
>joined the rally tonight. And these outsiders were trying to provoke
>the officers."
I didn't know CM had formal "membership", per se. Yup; according to
http://www.critical-mass.org/ (which is probably as valid information
as one can get), "Critical Mass is not an organization, it's an
unorganized coincidence..." So, my question is: how does an outsider
infiltrate an unorganized coincidence? It's nonsense!
As I recall, every CM "coincidence" I have witnessed usually included
a couple of fist fights and some arrests... and the one I saw was
between two cyclists because one got in the other's way. My favorite
part was watching the riders hoist their bikes into their pick-up
trucks after the ride... I did get a belly laugh out of that!
>The adults were arrested on suspicion of rioting, a gross
>misdemeanor.
"Suspicion of rioting", huh? I like that almost as much as the
riders' pick-up trucks.
Essentially, I would agree with CM. Philosophically, I agree with
Timothy McVeigh... or did before he was strapped to the gurney. There
are lots of things wrong with our society and, many times, I feel like
acting... and this probably involves sustained automatic weapons fire.
I don't *do* that because such behavior carries severe penalties. I
am fully in favor of allowing the people who choose to participate in
a CM "coincidence" and subsequently violate the law in any way to
suffer the consequences thereof.
Jones
J
!Jones
Guest
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 05:32:02 -0700, in rec.bicycles.tech "Qui si parla
Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sep 1, 11:06 am, [email protected] wrote:
>> http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
>
>How about-'protesters who were riding bicycles got arrested'..it was
>about civil disobedience, not riding a bike.
Agree. "Protesters Arrested" and leave it there. Cycles had nothing
to do with it.
Jones
Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com" <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sep 1, 11:06 am, [email protected] wrote:
>> http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html
>
>How about-'protesters who were riding bicycles got arrested'..it was
>about civil disobedience, not riding a bike.
Agree. "Protesters Arrested" and leave it there. Cycles had nothing
to do with it.
Jones
L
landotter
Guest
On Sep 1, 6:32 pm, Doug Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:10:27 -0500, Tim McNamara
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Being nasty is not a crime. Being self-righteous is not a crime. Being
> >a "trustafarian" (which IME is not who is showing up at Critical Mass
> >rides- they are usually the ones in the SUVs with a cell phone and a Red
> >Bull and the subwoofer cranked up blasting out rap to show that they are
> >down with the brothers, fuming while they have to wait for the
> >procession of mere cyclists) is not a crime although it frequently leads
> >to poor taste and self-indulgence.
>
> >Violence is a crime. Attacking a police officer or interfering with an
> >arrest is a crime. For that, an arrest and possible prosecution is
> >appropriate. 48 officers were involved in the arrest of 19 individuals
> >on "suspicion of rioting" charges, a gross misdemeanor:
>
> Also quoting from the article:
>
>
> I have no problem with the notion of an adult assaulting a police
> officer being arre4sted and prosecuted. The misdemeanor riot charge
> is a gift.
Yup.
I'm NO fan of cops, mind, I'm one of those folks that believe that
this country is teetering on the precipice of fascism--but smug civil
disorder is not the answer. Stopping traffic with a protest for equal
rights for the races might very well be the appropriate thing to do to
gain attention for a human rights issue--I'd extend that to shutting
down a city center non-violently for equal rights for gays--but
deliberately snarling traffic with bicycles is absurd, and serves no
purpose other than to enrage, inconvenience, and to inflate the
righteousness of the trustafarians. I'm saying that as a guy that
rides far more than he drives. I'm not for randomly jailing folks by
any means--but if you create civil disorder, you need to be detained.
Hopefully the cops will give you a soda and a vegan cutlet while
you're cooling down.
Do think about purchasing a tactical length Mossberg shotgun do defend
against a future police state:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G63FEamhpA0&mode=related&search=
> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:10:27 -0500, Tim McNamara
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Being nasty is not a crime. Being self-righteous is not a crime. Being
> >a "trustafarian" (which IME is not who is showing up at Critical Mass
> >rides- they are usually the ones in the SUVs with a cell phone and a Red
> >Bull and the subwoofer cranked up blasting out rap to show that they are
> >down with the brothers, fuming while they have to wait for the
> >procession of mere cyclists) is not a crime although it frequently leads
> >to poor taste and self-indulgence.
>
> >Violence is a crime. Attacking a police officer or interfering with an
> >arrest is a crime. For that, an arrest and possible prosecution is
> >appropriate. 48 officers were involved in the arrest of 19 individuals
> >on "suspicion of rioting" charges, a gross misdemeanor:
>
> Also quoting from the article:
>
>
>"We've never had a problem with Critical Mass, the rally," she
> said. "We agree with them that we need to lessen our dependence on the
> automobile. Apparently, they had some infiltrators or outsiders who
> joined the rally tonight. And these outsiders were trying to provoke
> the officers."
>
> The adults were arrested on suspicion of rioting, a gross
> misdemeanor.
> I have no problem with the notion of an adult assaulting a police
> officer being arre4sted and prosecuted. The misdemeanor riot charge
> is a gift.
Yup.
I'm NO fan of cops, mind, I'm one of those folks that believe that
this country is teetering on the precipice of fascism--but smug civil
disorder is not the answer. Stopping traffic with a protest for equal
rights for the races might very well be the appropriate thing to do to
gain attention for a human rights issue--I'd extend that to shutting
down a city center non-violently for equal rights for gays--but
deliberately snarling traffic with bicycles is absurd, and serves no
purpose other than to enrage, inconvenience, and to inflate the
righteousness of the trustafarians. I'm saying that as a guy that
rides far more than he drives. I'm not for randomly jailing folks by
any means--but if you create civil disorder, you need to be detained.
Hopefully the cops will give you a soda and a vegan cutlet while
you're cooling down.
Do think about purchasing a tactical length Mossberg shotgun do defend
against a future police state:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G63FEamhpA0&mode=related&search=
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