minnesota bicyclists arrested



In article <[email protected]>,
landotter <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm one of those folks that believe that this country is teetering on
> the precipice of fascism--


It's not so much a precipice as a downhill slide; the past 27 years have
put us further and further down that slope and the past 7 years in
particular. Fascists always claim that they are protecting the values
of the society, it's the smokescreen to confuse the naive and those who
believe they are threatened by change and buys time to consolidate power.

> but smug civil disorder is not the answer.


Civil disobedience, not civil disorder. Critical Mass is supposed to be
an example of civil disobedience (but often misses the mark).
 
In article
<[email protected]>,
!Jones <****@off.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 04:57:25 GMT, in rec.bicycles.tech Michael Press
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> How did Pogo put it back in '70? "We have met the enemy and he is
> >> us." It's an identical mentality... the only difference is the number
> >> of wheels your vehicle has on the ground, which, IMO, is irrelevant.

> >
> >No, not the 1970's. Walt Kelly drew and wrote Pogo.

>
> Well, I had a copy of the poster above my army bunk in Vietnam. That
> would have been '71. As I recall, Kelly released it for the first
> "Earth Day" in 1970 and the cartoon version was slightly earlier.
> Yes... I just found the poster, yellow with age and tattered... and it
> says, "Copyright 1970" in still visable printing.
>
> Can't believe I could find that. Now, where are my house keys?


Nevertheless, Pogo uttered the line earlier. A
copyright on a poster does not preclude an earlier
occurrence of the line.

--
Michael Press
 
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:21:06 GMT, in rec.bicycles.tech Michael Press
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Nevertheless, Pogo uttered the line earlier. A
>copyright on a poster does not preclude an earlier
>occurrence of the line.


OK, I thought you were putting it later. I was passing through San
Francisco during the first "earth day"... the first one to be
proclaimed by elected officials, anyway. That was early '70 and the
picture of Pogo in the swamp was the logo. It could well have been
and probably was used in a strip before that... notwithstanding, I'd
still go with spring of '70, I think; your milage may vary.

Jones
 
On Sep 2, 5:18 am, !Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 06:49:34 -0000, in rec.bicycles.techChalo
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >How else are we to
> >make our point (in a way that will actually be heard, that is)?

>
> When you're on the road, regardless of what you happen to be
> operating, observe the traffic laws and be considerate of others. I
> learned *that* in grade school. Realize that the fact that some
> people did not get it then does not excuse rude or boorish behavior on
> your part (generic second person).


Yeah, that approach worked great for the labor movement, the abolition
movement, women's suffrage, the civil rights movement, etc.

Critical Mass happens just once a month, so that the folks involved
don't have to air their grievances that way every day. There are
plenty of cyclists who express their rejection of car culture through
open disregard for traffic laws pretty much all the time. Massers, in
my observation, aren't like that. They "go along to get along" the
rest of the month, because they understand that their objections are
better recognized through collective action. I think that in a lot of
cities, CM has brought discussion of road-sharing issues out into the
open when they otherwise would have been ignored.

Acquiescence is consent. Just be glad that others are not as
acquiescent as you are.

Chalo
 
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 19:23:29 +0000, Chalo wrote:

> On Sep 2, 5:18 am, !Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 06:49:34 -0000, in rec.bicycles.techChalo
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >How else are we to
>> >make our point (in a way that will actually be heard, that is)?

>>
>> When you're on the road, regardless of what you happen to be
>> operating, observe the traffic laws and be considerate of others. I
>> learned *that* in grade school. Realize that the fact that some
>> people did not get it then does not excuse rude or boorish behavior on
>> your part (generic second person).

>
> Yeah, that approach worked great for the labor movement, the abolition
> movement, women's suffrage, the civil rights movement, etc.
>
> Critical Mass happens just once a month, so that the folks involved
> don't have to air their grievances that way every day. There are
> plenty of cyclists who express their rejection of car culture through
> open disregard for traffic laws pretty much all the time. Massers, in
> my observation, aren't like that. They "go along to get along" the
> rest of the month, because they understand that their objections are
> better recognized through collective action. I think that in a lot of
> cities, CM has brought discussion of road-sharing issues out into the
> open when they otherwise would have been ignored.
>
> Acquiescence is consent. Just be glad that others are not as
> acquiescent as you are.
>
> Chalo


For many years, the NYPD and Critical Mass had accommodated each other,
albeit with some friction at the margins. That changed when the Republican
National Convention came to town and the Manhattan NYPD (though not the
Brooklyn NYPD, oddly enough) decided that Critical Mass had to go. It
hardly surprises me that these arrests were in connection with a protest
of the Republican National Convention coming to Minnesota. Granted, at
this point I have no more than suspicions, but I think there is good
reason to be suspicious.

Now that I've broken my vow to stay on topic, I'm off to say some Hail
Mary's.
 
On Sep 2, 2:23 pm, Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:
> There are
> plenty of cyclists who express their rejection of car culture through
> open disregard for traffic laws pretty much all the time.


That's the excuse for scapegoating of cyclists by MV operators (on the
road or in letters to the editor <g>): "they don't obey the law!!!

So, IMHO it's a good idea to obey the law at least as far as those in
MV's do-- IOW, if they roll a stop sign, it's me next, doing the same
thing. Happens all the time, me plus 1-3 or more MV's going through a
four-way stop, we all roll it. But slowly, taking turns, etc. etc. On
the same basis, I've been waved through stops by potential "arresting
officers". The difference is demonstrating control and ability to
actually stop before entering the intersection. A far different thing
from blowing lights or signs.

> Massers, in
> my observation, aren't like that. They "go along to get along" the
> rest of the month, because they understand that their objections are
> better recognized through collective action. I think that in a lot of
> cities, CM has brought discussion of road-sharing issues out into the
> open when they otherwise would have been ignored.


My experience with CM in Austin was quite different. The CM ride was
turning right (29th and Guadalupe, since you know Austin) on their way
back to their campus starting point. One asshole saw I intended to
turn left, and just in time to stop me, jammed over an blocked my
legal right of progress at a green light until the entire Mad Max--
Thunderdome crowd (complete with chariot) passed, and then joined in,
making me sit through another red light. Big smirk when he pulled the
move, while some asswipe in a car behind (no doubt one the the MV
drivers who was going to give a few of the poor tired protesters a
ride home after the ride), saw what was going on, made a point to honk
and cheer, gesticulate, etc. just to **** me off. All very obvious.

Critical Mass got a real bad rep in Austin, and very well deserved. It
was all about "getting even" with the bad drivers. Which just doesn't
happen on the road or on the playground, either.

Oh yeah, I was driving a funky old compact car (Dodge Omni) with a
bike rack on the roof. And, as if it would make any difference, my
daughter, about 2 years old at the time, was in a kid seat in the
middle, rear. Very obvious.

I know there was at least one famous incident where a jeep driver hit
a CM'er or two. The few times I saw CM riding, I saw only a remarkable
patience exhibited by MV drivers-- while rush hour traffic on one of
the busiest central roads was deliberately blocked (Lamar Blvd. is the
one I remember as the worst).

> Acquiescence is consent. Just be glad that others are not as
> acquiescent as you are.


This is one place I strongly disagree with you. It can be done a whole
lot smarter and more effectively.

Today I rode in my new "neighborhood" for the first time (Barton Creek
off SW Parkway). Three lanes total, center lane for turns, either
direction on a winding, hilly road. Surprisingly busy for Sunday
morning (there are at least two churches on the road, I believe). I
was passed by maybe 20 cars, maybe more. I waved to almost every
single one of them in thanks as they gave me a good Old Austin pass--
way over from way behind, lots of room in front, too, no racing motors
either, let alone nasty honking. Saw some other riders, none waving as
they were also treated courteously, plus. We all know that at least
some "church traffic" is the most dangerous there is <g>, I'll remind.

I've had other regular routes in a few other neighborhoods here (incl
Round Rock <g>) (bedroom community nearby), where cooperating and
being friendly (while occasionally being forceful about standing up
for my right to my space) have cultivated good relations with other
"regulars"-- moving over to give a little extra passing room when
safe, waving passers around corners they can't see around (very
carefully, of course), and so forth-- and whaddya know, I start
getting cut a lot of extra slack, also waves and friendly honks as
folks drive by (no, not all of them, this ain't the Good Ship
Lollipop). That's "going along to get along", as opposed to being a
***** like the guy who blocked me because he was pretty sure he could
get away with it. It was a moment of temptation, I'll admit. "Not
worth getting in trouble for", but please! give me a break on CM, as I
saw it in Austin, fostering improved bike-driver relationships.

And the ducking of responsibility, too-- "CM has no leaders, it just
occurs". Yeah, complete with publicity that just falls out of the sky
somehow. What chickenshits.

Ride your bike, act like an adult, protect yourself at all times.
Break the us/them dichotomy with a little appropriate respect, let the
assholes go find another asshole to fight with. In general, of course!

Outta electrons, thanks. --D-y
 
On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 16:05:17 -0700, in rec.bicycles.tech
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

>>CM has brought discussion of road-sharing issues out into the
>> open when they otherwise would have been ignored.

>
>My experience with CM in Austin was quite different.


My only real observations were also in Austin, TX; all of them I saw
were contentious acts. Had I been driving, it would have been a
serious temptation to commit vehicular assault. I will assure you
that they brought no "discussion of road-sharing issues out into the
open".

I would be willing to bet that, if there were funding to study it,
we'd find that aggressive acts by MVs actually increase following a CM
action. You'd need an operational definition of "aggressive act" and
a consistent way to count them... volunteers logging into a web page
might work. Anybody writing a dissertation? There's a topic!

Jones
 
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> http://www.startribune.com/crime/story/1396202.html


>>> !Jones <****@off.com> wrote:
>>>> A friend there said they were "Critical Mass"; I thought that bunch
>>>> was defunct.


>> Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Critical Mass rides happen monthly in dozens of cities. Far from
>>> defunct.


>>> !Jones <****@off.com> wrote:
>>>> Put 'em under the jail, I say!


>> Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> While I have doubts about the efficacy of Critical Mass rides in
>>> reducing the car culture, that seems a bit harsh to me.


> !Jones <****@off.com> wrote:
>> Well, essentially Critical Mass (CM) is what's wrong with our social
>> fabric. It's not about bicycles, it's about civil behavior... the
>> fact that I believe myself to be a victim does not allow me to
>> infringe the rights of others. When a CM rider runs a red light and
>> causes a driver with a clear right of way to slam on his or her
>> brakes, then the cyclist is wrong.
>> How did Pogo put it back in '70? "We have met the enemy and he is
>> us." It's an identical mentality... the only difference is the number
>> of wheels your vehicle has on the ground, which, IMO, is irrelevant.


Michael Press wrote:
> No, not the 1970's. Walt Kelly drew and wrote Pogo.
>
> ----------------
> Deck us all with Boston Charlie,
> Walla Walla, Wash., an' Kalamazoo!
> Nora's freezin' on the trolley,
> Swaller dollar cauliflower alley-garoo!
>
> Don't we know archaic barrel,
> Lullaby Lilla boy, Louisville Lou?
> Trolley Molly don't love Harold,
> Boola boola Pensacoola hullabaloo!
>
> Bark us all bow-wows of folly,
> Polly wolly cracker n' too-da-loo!
> Hunky Dory's pop is lolly gaggin' on the wagon,
> *****, folly go through!
>
> Donkey Bonny brays a carol,
> Antelope Cantaloup, 'lope with you!
> Chollie's collie barks at Barrow,
> Harum scarum five alarum bung-a-loo!
> ----------------
>
> I think I know what happened to Gene Daniels.


You have The Pogo Songbook!! (or a superb memory?) Cool!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
In article
<[email protected]>,
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

> moving over to give a little extra passing room when
> safe, waving passers around corners they can't see around (very
> carefully, of course), and so forth--


I do that. It is a win-win situation. Drivers remember
positive interactions with bicyclist. Most people want
to get along.

--
Michael Press
 
Chalo wrote:
> All of us have to do a lot of unnecessary waiting for car traffic, by
> design. If once a month, a handful of car drivers have to do a bit of
> unnecessary waiting for us, so much the better. How else are we to
> make our point (in a way that will actually be heard, that is)?


I tell the folks in ATL (who *only* ride CM -- as it is a bumpin' social
event), that if they want to let drivers know that cars are traffic,
ride to work, every single day.

They snarl traffic downtown, corking intersections, using nothing more
than an artificially elated "Happy Friday" to justify it to the other
traffic stopped at green lights.


Come Monday: on whom do downtown ATL drivers take out their
frustrations...me and all the other commuters who use bikes for more
than a means to get laid.

\\paul
 
On Sep 4, 6:48 pm, Paul Myron Hobson <[email protected]> wrote:
> Chalo wrote:
> > All of us have to do a lot of unnecessary waiting for car traffic, by
> > design. If once a month, a handful of car drivers have to do a bit of
> > unnecessary waiting for us, so much the better. How else are we to
> > make our point (in a way that will actually be heard, that is)?

>
> I tell the folks in ATL (who *only* ride CM -- as it is a bumpin' social
> event), that if they want to let drivers know that cars are traffic,
> ride to work, every single day.
>
> They snarl traffic downtown, corking intersections, using nothing more
> than an artificially elated "Happy Friday" to justify it to the other
> traffic stopped at green lights.
>
> Come Monday: on whom do downtown ATL drivers take out their
> frustrations...me and all the other commuters who use bikes for more
> than a means to get laid.


Ah, yes, a seat tube man, through and through!
 

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