Misc.kids FAQ on Jogging Strollers, Part 1/2



C

cindy

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Archive-name: misc-kids/joggers/part1
Posting-frequency: monthly
Last-modified: 1995/07/12
Version: 2.2

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*JOGGING STROLLERS FAQ PART 1 *
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Please find the Misc.Kids Jogger FAQ attached. When I
started on my quest for information a few years ago, I
didn't realize there were so many things to consider and so
many different joggers available. This is fairly long
because a lot of the mail I got was anecdotal. (The mail
included came from people on the Dead Runners Society List,
Misc.kids and rec.running). You will find in the following
text 1) A summary of the kinds of things you might want to
consider when buying a jogger 2) An index of the joggers
discussed 3) General opinion-type comments (these are also
scattered through the articles on various joggers 4) An
article or two on when to put a baby in a jogger (tips on
carrying small children scattered throughout).

I now have two joggers: the huffy single, and the Baby
Jogger Super Twinner. I'll comment on each of those in the
appropriate section.

Cindy Mitchell University of Maine System Computing and Data
Processing Service [email protected]

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Things to Consider When Buying a Jogger
----------------------------------------------------
1) Construction
2) Weight (if you're planning to race, this may be a
consideration) 3) safety (A few joggers don't have "wheel
wings" that will keep little hands away from the wheels)
4) brakes (Many don't have any kind of brake other than
to use one of the straps around a wheel) 5) price
(there's a huge variation in price) 6) collapsibility
(Will it fit in your car?) 7) set up (Once collapsed will
it go back together without a tool box?)

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Index of Models Discussed
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Motiv Joggette/Jog'r Cycle Baby Jogger/Racing Strollers Inc.
Burley bike trailer/jogger JC Penney/Huffy Kidcart Runabout

MOTIV JOGGETTE/JOG'R CYCLE
----------------------
(Cindy's note: A friend recently (3/95) bought a joggette at
Sam's club. It's pretty chintzy looking and has to be broken
down with a wrench.)

Motiv Sports Inc. 14211 Yorba St. Suite 100 Tustin, CA 92680
(3) 731-6011

*****************************************
Following is the recommendation for the Motiv Joggette I
saved from rec.running some time ago. I called the company
and they said they don't take credit cards, I had to mail
them a personal check, they waited a few days for it to
clear, then they sent me the Joggette. I'd say I got it
about 2 to 2 1/2 weeks after I mailed them my check, and it
had to come from the West coast to the East Coast. I've been
quite pleased with it; it was certainly worth the
4.50 I paid. I believe the reason it's substantially cheaper
than the real Baby Jogger brand is because it's assembled
in Mexico, so if you are really heavy into buying
American, don't. Oh, yes, and when I first called them
they were out of stock at the time and they took my name
and phone number and after a few weeks they called me back
and said to send the money.

Recommendation pulled from the net follows:
----------------------------------------------------
Motiv Joggette: This is the one you don't seem to have heard
about. It's also the one we purchased. It's main selling
feature is that it is CHEAP ($79 - 100)! But, I really don't
think it gives up anything in performance. Mainly, it's just
not painted as well, not widely marketed yet, etc.

I ran into one of these at a race in southern Arizona last
fall. I asked the owners about it. They (both the man and
woman) said they loved it - ran in lots of races with it,
etc. I tried it out for a couple of minutes and thought it
was great. In the West it's available at at least one chain
store - Price Club. There may be a few of these in the East
now or at least I think there will be soon. There aren't any
in NY yet. (Also you need to be a state employee of fed.
credit union member to join Price Club.) In any case, in the
West you can get Joggette's at Price Clubs and maybe some
other stores for about $100 (my sister-in-law got one at a
Phoenix Price Club for $99).

I got ours by calling Motiv High Performance Bicycles(a
little company in Calif.) directly. They agreed to sell me
one for $79 plus ~$13 UPS shipping. It came in about a week
and we've used it happily a few times since. A friend of
mine here just ordered one for himself. He said he had to do
a little bit of convincing to get them to sell him one
directly - they appear to be selling more now through third
party catalogs at jacked up prices or something. But, in the
end, they did give him the same deal they gave me. I was
very wary of the price. Price wasn't a major concern to me -
we'd have been happy to pay $300 if I thought that I'd get
something better. I couldn't believe that something for $79
could compare favorably with the $279 ones. But, it really
seems like the differences are mainly cosmetic.

Actually, I must say that I do believe that the Baby Jogger
is a little bit better made than the Joggette. But it seems
to me to be a bit of wasted quality. The thing doesn't have
to last 50,000 miles. I figure 20- 30 miles a week for a few
years at most. I'm pretty sure the Joggette can handle that.
It's got a good sturdy frame. Basic 20" bicycle wheels.
Rolls very smoothly, turns well, etc. Being in frigid
Ithaca, NY, with a very young baby (3 mo.) we've only taken
it out about 5 times so far. But, it's been all I could ask
for. It's quite easy to push and you can even run fairly
fast with it (I did a couple of 5:45 miles with it without
much trouble, though I don't think it'd be a good idea to go
much faster. It felt like it might get a little unstable -
say if you hit a small rock or something you might have a
hard time keeping it under control).

In any case, I'd recommend the Joggette. I can't say that
I'm sure the others aren't better, but they really don't
seem like it to me.

The Joggette comes with a canopy and a pouch/pocket for
holding a water bottle or hat or shirt or whatever.

*************************************************
Low and behold my Jog R` Cycle (JRC) arrived last night.
Shortly after sending you a message I called Motiv and
they called the warehouse. Seems my order fell through
the cracks.

The warehouse is ~20 minutes from my home so they had
someone hand deliver it. I tipped the delivery guy a couple
bucks so it cost me exactly $120.00.

The instructions were not included! Assembly was pretty much
straight forward but there are 2 parts left over (no
kidding). One may be a rubber stopper only used for packing
and the other is a pair of straps hooked to the lower brace
just above the rear axle. I'll call Motiv latter today.

Two negatives come quickly to mind. There is no brake and
the maximum recommended speed is 10 miles per hour. I will
not exceed the speed limit while jogging but as a bike
trailer 10 mi/hr is rather slow. The maximum weight is 40
lbs but I should get quite a bit of use before Max (now 13
months) exceeds that.

If you plan to drive to a jogging path you should know that
you will need a Phillips head screwdriver, a small wrench,
most of your trunk space and a good 10 minutes to break the
JRC down (another 10 to put it back together).

As I was leaving work last night I ran into a guy that had a
bike trailer/jogger combination that he paid ~$450.00 for.
It looked like a tent on wheels. It weighs 16 lbs empty (the
JRC weighs 30) and he had two kids in it weighing ~30 lbs
each. He said it broke down in 5 minutes. [Cindy's
note: see section on Burley bike trailer/jogger for more
info on this]

The technology of the $450 model was impressive (aircraft
aluminum frame, quick release hubs, graphite components
etc..). The technology of the JRC reminds me of a 1969
Huffy. For the money the JRC is a good deal. I think it
will serve me well as a jogger and even as a trailer for
an occasional "cruise" on the bike path. If money were not
an issue....

**************************************************

My wife and I have the Motiv version that we bought at Price
Club for $120 or $130 or something. Not being sure how much
we would like or use such a thing, we went for the least
expensive one. And probably the cheapest one, as well. It
has various rust spots after a year. I actually did some
minor disassembly and got it into the back of our small
station, but I'm not sure if I could repeat the activity.

Gee, I'm afraid I may not be much help. You'll probably have
to ask those difficult questions like What do I want this
for? How much do I think I will use it? How much am I
willing to pay? What features (canopy, compactness,
foldability, etc.) are important? etc.

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BABY JOGGER/RACING STROLLERS inc
----------
Baby Jogger Racing Strollers, Inc. 1-800-241-1848 (for
orders) Baby Jogger offers factory seconds. I think this is
advertized on the back of a parenting magazine. The deals
are pretty good. A price list from June '95 follows. These
are the prices if you order the first rate strollers.
Factory seconds are cheaper. I paid $375 for the Super
Twinner in May of '95. The Twinner was going for $300 and
the Baby Jogger II-16 (I think) was going for $177. Factory
seconds come with the canopy. So the $375 I paid included
the canopy.

Baby Jogger II-12 (12 inch wheels) $200 + $18 shipping Baby
Jogger II-16 (16 inch wheels) $249 + $18 shipping Baby
Jogger II-20 (20 inch wheels) $299 + $18 shipping Super
Jogger $387 + $18 Little Zipper (only factory seconds)$99 +
$18 Big Zipper $155 + $18 Twinner $439 + $21 Super Twinner
$525 + $21 Special Needs $497 + $21

The various canopies are $39.95. There are rain canopies
ranging from $39.95 to $62.95, depending on the size jogger
you buy. There are also baskets you can buy (nets actually)
that attach underneath for cargo.

There are some answers to specific questions about Baby
Joggers in the Q&A section at the end of the second part of
the jogger file.
------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
Cindy's comments on the Super Twinner

Well, they say you get what you pay for. There is no
question about the quality difference between the Super
Twinner and the Huffy single I bought. It's lighter, has
better fittings, better materials, and it folds to fit into
the trunk of my Toyota Camry. This is the big difference
between the Twinner and Super Twinner. The Super Twinner has
locking pins that come and allow the jogger to fold up
really nicely. The Twinner doesn't. I have kind of ditched
the Huffy single even when I only have one child with me. In
fact, I've found the twinner great for grocery shopping! The
other seat holds a 20 pound bag of charcoal perfectly! ;-)
The two cargo pockets on the back of the seats are great,
and the sun canopy is really nice because it attaches down
the sides too. It isn't just a top.
------------------------------------------------------------
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I have used only the Baby Jogger and not tried the others. I
have had both the single and twinner versions. Stability and
ease of use were excellent. I have also tried running with
an ordinary stroller (Aprica) before I got the jogging
stroller. This worked OK for me but my husband couldn't get
used to running between the wheels. The Baby Jogger is far
superior in this regard. Both my husband and I found it
comfortable to run with. It negotiates curbs, corners, and
rough terrain very well. Although I haven't tried riding in
it myself, the kids seem to love it. My son started at about
3 months old and did just fine. I put him in a felt seat
made for shopping cart use that worked great for keeping him
in one place. My version did not have a canopy but I think
its possible to get one now. I think this is important to
have. Also, mine do not collapse and are impossible to get
into a car. We strapped ours to our bicycle rack when
necessary but this was a real pain. Its quite heavy and
rather ungainly to handle. GET ONE THAT COLLAPSES!!!

We have only the twinner now and use it primarily for long
neighborhood walks. The kids are 3 and 5 now and still love
it. We don't run with it because we live in a very hilly
area and the children together now weigh about 70 pounds not
to mention the weight of a stroller. It would still work
fine if we had a flat place to run.

Except for the portability issue, we were very satisfied.
The strollers are very expensive new but seem to have good
resale. We easily sold our original one child model.

***********************************************
I examined brochures for 4 different running strollers and
tried out 2 of 'em. Here in Ithaca though, there aren't
many around.

-- Baby Jogger - the most well known, seems to be the one I
see most often. But, at $280, seems a bit expensive for what
you get. My feeling is that part of what you pay for with
the Baby Jogger is the nice chrome finish, lots of ads, etc.
I've tried it and it's very nice. But it really didn't seem
any better than the Joggette below in performance. It's
shinier and maybe a bit prettier but has even fewer basic
features - no handle height adjustment, no included canopy
or basket or pouch.

-- Runabout - After looking at the brochure for the
Runabout, I think I'd have chosen it over the Baby Jogger -
mainly since it has an adjustable height handle (my wife
runs also) and since it collapses a bit smaller than the
Baby Jogger, I think. I thought it was fairly ugly compared
to the Baby Jogger but it seemed like it might be a bit
better. (it's about the same price as the Baby Jogger - $289
or so or more for fancier versions)

-- 3 Wheel Wonder: This one is a bit mysterious. When I
sent for their brochure they sent me a regular snapshot
print (no glossy brochure) of the stroller and a page
listing its features.

What's mysterious is that the Wonder looks VERY much like
the Joggette listed below. The seat and frame look
identical. The listed features, I think, were slightly
different, but it really looks to me like they at least
share some major parts. Maybe the 3 Wheel Wonder people buy
the main pieces from Motiv and put together their own
configuration. But, at ~ $159-
189 (Iforget - the info is at home), they charge a lot more
than Motiv.

***************************************************
We have a Baby Jogger and love it. Around here, the Baby
Jogger is the only one you EVER see being used (both for
training and large 10Ks with 10,000+ runners). Its easy to
use, comfortable (I suppose, I don't fit in it to try it
out :)) and stable. In fact, I mounted a Vetta bicycle
computer on it.

Unfortunately, It doesn't fold down real small unless you
remove the wheels which requires an oddball sized wrench -
the one that came with the trailer didn't fit. I'm an ex-
mechanic with over $15k of tools and I STILL don't have
anything but a crescent wrench that fits correctly. Other
than that, the quality is superb.

Our son is now 9 months. We started him at about 6 months
also. He still kind of slumps down and ALWAYS falls asleep.
Its GREAT :-O

Seems no one wants to sell one used. I also ran into
this when I wanted a Burley trailer for biking (I ride,
the SO runs).

***************************************************
I can't answer about the others, but I have a Baby Jogger
and it works very well. My son liked it when he didn't like
a regular stroller - I guess because we went fast. I saw
someone with the 3 wheel wonder at a race and she had logged
a lot of miles with it and liked it, but it was heavier.
Possibly more stable because the child sat lower. We have
had no spills, but we always use a bicycle helmet. I would
recommend you purchase one with the stroller.

We didn't get ours till my son was almost 1. I regret this
because we could have had much more flexibility earlier on
(running together, not needing the other spouse to be home,
etc.) But the niece of a friend of mine had her baby in one
at about 6 weeks and I have seen many children in them
younger than 6 months. But, I'd say choose your courses more
carefully till the child reaches the age of loving the
bumps. And, again, buy a helmet and use it.

Oh, check the discount baby stores and some bike
stores...they are often cheaper than mail order. I paid $228
for mine new at a discount baby store.

I find it a major hassle that is doesn't collapse. It
doesn't even fit in the back of my small blazer with the
back wheels on. But, the hot tip is to get good at taking
the back wheels off, too. I know a couple who cheerfully do
this and put it in the trunk of their compact car. We have a
bike lock for it that allows us to lock down the back of my
Blazer or lock it up outside a coffee house in running
distance. Of course, these have to be moderately safe
places. I believe there is some new, lightweight collapsible
jogging stroller available, but I think it costs more than
the BJ. I know folks who put them on the racks on top of
their cars, but you might want to cover the stuff on the
handle to make sure it doesn't abrade away. If you are
ALWAYS driving to run, I'd recommend spending extra for
collapsibility. If you own a minivan or will just be
transporting to weekend races or runs "away from it all"
(our situation), I'd say it's probably no worse than getting
used to traveling with all the stuff you want for a baby
anyway. Oh, yes, remember that you will need warmer clothes
for the baby than for you! I'd consider one of those nifty
"polar" suits in a large size to go over everything for a
little baby. (This is probably the sort of a nag you'll get
from your parents anyway, sorry.) You can just pop it over
whatever the kid has on at the time. We have a special
"skinny" hat we put on under the helmet for morning runs (to
keep ears warm).

*************************************************
I have been using a Baby Jogger for 6 years now. My 6yr old
still occasionally takes a ride, and my 2 year old loves it.
The one I have is borrowed, and we are moving, so I faced
the prospect of buying one. The model I have been been using
is the "Walkabout" from Racing Strollers. It is the same as
the original Baby Jogger, except it has smaller wheels. I
have been extremely satisfied. I have probably put over 1000
miles on it, a good bit of it with a kid over 50 lbs, and it
is as good as new. It will last through several more
children (not mine).

I compared the Huffy, one by Gerry, and another couple of
less expensive models, hoping that I could get away with
$149 instead of $249 (I have not been able to look at a 3
Wheel Wonder so I can't comment on it.) In my opinion, I
would be sorry if I got anything other than a real Baby
Jogger. Just compare how it is put together, what holds the
wheels on, how strong the fabric of the seat is, etc. Many
of the ones I looked at in stores already had the fabric
torn from shelf wear, and the front wheel already wobbled.
Given that these things are like gold on the resale market
(how many times to we see postings about "anyone have one
for sale?", and we never see "anybody want to buy my
jogger?") I think scrimping here would be a false savings.

***********************************************
I have one. The brand of mine is "Baby Jogger". I like it
quite a lot. I dare say it's made my wife a fan of running
(because I can take Matthew when I go :)).

Mine has a capacity of 40-50 pounds... I haven't heard of
ones with a higher capacity than that, but that doesn't mean
they aren't out there.

Anyway, I don't know if this is much help... but I really do
like mine, and Matthew enjoy's it a lot. It seems very
durable... I got it at a cut rate from a bike shop that
rented them over the summer and wanted to get rid of them in
the fall. So before you buy one new you might consider
looking around to see if someone has a used one.

*************************************************
I strongly recommend you consider nothing but the line made
by Racing Strollers. They advertise in the back of most
running magazines so you can easily get their catalog, and
Road Runner Sports sells one of their models (the one I
have). Nothing else is made anywhere near as sturdily, which
is critical when carrying a heavier child. I used a borrowed
one for 4 years (it was on its fourth child), and when I had
to return that one, I bought one ($225 from RRS). I still
regularly carry my 35 lbs 3 year old, and still occasionally
take my 65 lbs 6 year old. The stuff made by other companies
(like Huffy or Gerry, etc. that you might see in a Toys R Us
or a bike store just do not compare. I think at least one of
the models of Racing Strollers goes to 75 lbs (I think mine
does). The difference in price is negligible when you
ammortize it over the number of times you will use it, and
the life time of a good running stroller will exceed the
childhood of several kids.

***********************************************
We have 2 of the brand name "Baby Jogger" and have been
quite happy. We bought the first nearly 7 years ago when
they were the only ones on the market. My older daughter
"participated" in her first race at 2 months old (my husband
pushed her and we ran together). With the birth of the
second daughter 2 2/3 years later, we purchased a "Baby
Jogger Twinner" which holds 2 children. My husband pushed
both of them in a race when the second child was 2 months
old. Although he started at the rear of the lineup as that
race required, he passed me at 1 1/2 mile. Now that our
children are nearly 7 and 4, and they weigh a combined 80
pounds (plus clothes and snacks), we seldom push them both
on the hilly terrain we have here in Monument, CO. We do
occasionally push them if we drive to a relatively flat
trail or are doing a rather long walk when the younger one
needs a nap. I'll sometimes still take the 4yo along for a
run for extra strength training. Those things go anywhere
and are quite easy to handle. Our single one has been great
everywhere from beaches to steep mountain trails (that are
wide enough to accommodate it). One time when I was away on
business, my husband pushed the older daughter (then 1) most
of the way up Pikes' Peak in it.

Sorry that I can't compare and contrast it with other
models. I suggest looking at the advertisements in the back
of Runners' WOrld. The companies all have 800 nos and offer
to send free info and price lists.

**************************************************
The nice ones -- the originals, made by a company in Yakima,
Washington, and actually called "Baby Jogger" -- are
probably the best, but are expensive (around $300). The
newest of their line , the "Baby Jogger II," is very light
and has quick release wheels. The quick release wheels is
probably the feature that best differentiates the good ones
from the rest; lacking this, one needs a crescent wrench to
get the wheels off for transporting the thing in the trunk
of a car. Another good thing to look for is ball bearings in
the wheels.

One thing that the original baby jogger company offers is
"factory seconds" -- joggers with some minor blemish but no
structural problems. I believe the Baby Jogger II factory
second was around $170, plus shipping. The downside to this
was the long waiting list (at least 6 weeks, I believe).

Gerry also makes some decent-looking joggers. I've seen some
by Huffy, which seemed okay but a little heavy. The other
possibility is any of the many cheap imitations around. I
saw one built buy a company called Motiv that was okay; it
was selling at a local Schwinn shop for $129, and at a
"members only" club -- Sam's Club -- here in Ohio for $75.
This thing would not be convenient for lugging around in
your trunk a lot, and is heavier than the nice ones, but is
actually surprisingly decent for the money.

I have looked for quite a while for a used baby jogger, to
no avail. I don't know what happens to them when a kid
outgrows it -- you'd think people would like to unload them
-- but I've tried via the net and thru newspaper classifieds
with no luck. Hope some of this was helpful....
**********************************************

I have the original Baby Jogger; we got ours through Road
Runner Sports running equipment mail order house. If you are
a member of their preferred customer club (~$20 to join, I
think) you get 5% off. Also, for every dollar you spend, you
get scrip to buy items from the catalog.

My advice would be to try one before you buy to make sure
that Michael will ride in it. I have heard stories of
children who started at > 1 yr and didn't like it. We have a
friend who wanted to use ours, and their kid (1 yr) wouldn't
sit in it. It may have been a lack of trying enough on their
part, but something you might want to be aware of before
spending several hundred dollars.

I started Matthew in it at about three months. He usually
really likes riding and sitting in it. And, he is quiet
too. We get great smiles from all kinds of people who see
us jogging around the neighborhood. Especially the mothers
who are walking their kids in a conventional stroller with
tiny wheels.

Even when it is warm, I put a stocking cap on his head and
cover up as much skin as possible, including mittens if it
is below even 50 degrees F or so or windy, otherwise his
hands get pretty cold.

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Continued....