Missy Giove's QR pops open



Status
Not open for further replies.
Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I have no need to defend myself. Who I am defends me. The very fact of my being is my defense.
> >The One True Reality is an unshakable constant. Life
is
> >larger than the lie. Know this and heal all thy troubles, live this and
heal
> >the troubles of others. As long as there are those in the multiverse who aspire to lessen their
> >ignorance, ignorance shall find no justification
in
> >and of itself, and thusly starved, shall forthwith wither and die - be
the
> >solution, be the truth.
>
> I'll have one of whatever he's drinking...

I am drinking-in the juice of life's fruit, and it is available to you, also.

Shaun aRe - make mine a large one.......
 
Shaun Rimmer wrote:

> I have no need to defend myself. Who I am defends me. The very fact of my being is my defense. The
> One True Reality is an unshakable constant. Life is larger than the lie. Know this and heal all
> thy troubles, live this and heal the troubles of others. As long as there are those in the
> multiverse who aspire to lessen their ignorance, ignorance shall find no justification in and of
> itself, and thusly starved, shall forthwith wither and die - be the solution, be the truth.

And don't forget, boys and girls, that there is no spoon.

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================
 
Dave Larrington <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Shaun Rimmer wrote:
>
> > I have no need to defend myself. Who I am defends me. The very fact of my being is my defense.
> > The One True Reality is an unshakable constant. Life is larger than the lie. Know this and heal
> > all thy troubles, live this and heal the troubles of others. As long as there are those in the
> > multiverse who aspire to lessen their ignorance, ignorance shall find no justification in and of
> > itself, and thusly starved, shall forthwith wither and die - be the solution, be the truth.
>
> And don't forget, boys and girls, that there is no spoon.

And also, there is a queue for forks: v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v ForkQueue v v v v v

>',;~}~

Shaun aRe
 
On Tue, 20 May 2003 15:14:35 GMT, Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:

>Is it possible that the nut was partially stripped?

I was thinking more of shearing across the bolt. I once found just one side of a QR skewer lying on
a local trail. Set me thinking....

If the _thread_ is damaged, I'd have expected it to be noticeable on tightening the skewer.
 
In article <[email protected]>, W K wrote:

> My front wheel came off and I had done the quick release up properly.
>
> However, I did leave it outside the local shop for 5 mins.
>

Cough, splutter. Monitor cloth please.

--
John Murf
 
On Tue, 20 May 2003 13:47:15 +0100, "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I have no need to defend myself. Who I am defends me. The very fact of my being is my defense. The
>One True Reality is an unshakable constant.

Flee! It's P**l Sm*ths evil twin!

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
dynamic DNS permitting)
NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
work. Apologies.
 
"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 19 May 2003 22:02:46 -0700, [email protected] (James Annan) wrote:
>
> >You seem to be arguing very strongly that the QR is not a suitable fastener for the front wheel
> >of any bicycle, not just one with disk brakes.
>
> There's a good argument that nothing short of welding is a suitable fastener for Missy's
> front wheel.
>
> QR's - one M4 thread shearing and your wheel's off. Not entirely encouraging for D/H.

Solid drop-outs with bolt holes, through-bolts and giant nuts should do -- although welding is an
option. It is not like Missy is going to stop in the middle of a down-hill race and change a wheel.
Hell, put her on a sled, or in a big red wagon -- skip the bike altogether.

The problems encountered by Missy hardly reflect the risks to an ordinary road rider or even a road
racing cyclist. The only real risk to a road rider is the entirely controllable risk of failing to
close or properly tension a QR. This is a real risk (more real for some people), and thus the CPSC
has mandated various retention systems including lawyer-lips. If QRs are breaking due to disk brake
loads, then the manufacturers probably are filing CPSC incident reports and we inevitably will end
up with re-engineered QRs and another CPSC rule for disk brake bikes. Of course, this assumes that
the GIANT CONSPIRACY is not hiding the truth as usual. -- Jay Beattie.
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> On 19 May 2003 22:02:46 -0700, [email protected] (James Annan) wrote:
>
> >You seem to be arguing very strongly that the QR is not a suitable fastener for the front wheel
> >of any bicycle, not just one with disk brakes.
>
> There's a good argument that nothing short of welding is a suitable fastener for Missy's
> front wheel.
>
> QR's - one M4 thread shearing and your wheel's off. Not entirely encouraging for D/H.
>

Anyone using a standard 12mm Q/R axle for DH shouldn't act too surprised in that moment
before death.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> On Tue, 20 May 2003 15:14:35 GMT, Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Is it possible that the nut was partially stripped?
>
> I was thinking more of shearing across the bolt. I once found just one side of a QR skewer lying
> on a local trail. Set me thinking....
>
> If the _thread_ is damaged, I'd have expected it to be noticeable on tightening the skewer.
>
>

I'm sure an over tightened skewer can break just as an overtensioned spoke does. With GI Joe
projectile action.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
 
In article <[email protected]>, Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote:
>And Andy Dingley brings up a good point (one I hadn't considered). Is it possible that the nut was
>partially stripped? That could certainly provide some of the slack necessary for the series of
>events you postulate to occur.

I wonder if any of these incidents were caused by the axle being slightly off-center and the QR
binding against it and the dropout rather than the dropout alone.

--
Mike Iglesias Email: [email protected] University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926
Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069
 
Mark Hickey wrote:

> Again, my real point is that we've had "QR failures" for years, many of which were due to operator
> error. There's no reason to believe that folks who ride disc-equipped bikes are immune to these
> same errors. That certainly doesn't invalidate the (excellent) point you're making - but does
> complicate the data (i.e. not every ejected front wheel is going to be a QR failure).

That's true, but it seems to me that the failure mode is the most probably cause of any particular
accident, a priori. I'm assuming the victim is a basically competent cyclist who can demonstrate
that they know how to do up a QR, and all of them (disk brake victims) seem to be
- not proving they are incapable of error, but greatly reducing the probability compared to some kid
on a $99 special. That means it's as much up to the manufacturers to prove it didn't happen that
way, as for the victim (plaintiff) to show that it did.

James
 
Jay Beattie wrote:

> Of course, this assumes that the GIANT CONSPIRACY is not hiding the truth as usual. -- Jay
> Beattie.

To my knowledge, none of the victims of this problem who have contacted me have even raised the
matter with the manufacturer. They are all experience cyclists who 'know' that the QR cannot fail,
it must have been their fault. Even though they knew they did up the QR, it still must have been two
loose, or two tight, or caught on an invisible rock, or sabotaged by a trailside rabbit.

So I don't really think that the manufacturers are sitting on a mountain of complaints (a la
Bridgestone), but it would certainly be interesting to see their figures.

James
 
On Mon, 19 May 2003 23:17:24 GMT, SuperSlinky <[email protected]> wrote:

>Anthony Sloan said...
>
>> I'm confused. I understand that disc brakes can exert forces on hubs that could cause them to
>> walk out of dropouts. But what I don't understand is how these forces are (supposedly) causing
>> quick release levers to open of their own accord.
>
>See http://makeashorterlink.com/?T538360A4 for the long version. I will concede that he has a point
>in that the design of the dropouts relative to the disc brake is not ideal, but a chain of highly
>unlikely events has to happen before a wheel would be forced out of the dropouts.

On what basis do you say it is unlikely? At the very least the QR is made to bear stresses many
times the weight of the bike, something it is manifestly not designed for. Would you, for instance,
be comfortable if the actual axle of your bike was the diameter of a QR?

The fact that most QR's don't come loose, with the ensuing carnage, is largely a matter of luck-if
skewers didn't, coincidently, have many times the strength their actual mission requires, you'd see
a great many sheared ones. Even if the wheel could never come out of the drop outs, it is still a
**** poor design- there is no way I would ride a bike a MTB w/discs until the problem is fixed.

The fact that "engineers" at bike companies never considered this is instructive, Must have been to
busy "tuning" the frames to give a stiff, yet compliant ride.

Bob
 
"W K" <[email protected]> wrote:

>My front wheel came off and I had done the quick release up properly.
>
>However, I did leave it outside the local shop for 5 mins.

Ever since I helped stabilize a mountain biker who lost his front wheel on a fast downhill fire road
composed of sharp rock (not "rocks"), I am downright manic about checking my skewers ANY time I am
not in full possession of my bike in a public place. It's a little routine I go through as I'm
walking around the bike...

Pinch front tire Check front skewer Pinch rear tire Check rear skewer

This takes all of maybe five seconds, if I really take my time.

I also had an "interesting almost disaster" once. I had just changed my front tire (on my road
bike), and cinched up the Campy front skewer nice and snug (but not "stupidtight"). For some unknown
reason, I decided to give the already-seated skewer one more little push, at which time the skewer
rod snapped in half, ejecting the QR off the bike.

Had this happened 10 minutes later, I would have been going between 30-40mph down a long
hill. Eeeeek.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
 
"Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote

>> I'll have one of whatever he's drinking...
>
>I am drinking-in the juice of life's fruit, and it is available to you, also.

Sounds like love...

>Shaun aRe - make mine a large one.......

We're talking about the size of the juice drink, I hope... ;-)

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
 
James Annan <[email protected]> wrote:

>Mark Hickey wrote:
>
>> Again, my real point is that we've had "QR failures" for years, many of which were due to
>> operator error. There's no reason to believe that folks who ride disc-equipped bikes are immune
>> to these same errors. That certainly doesn't invalidate the (excellent) point you're making - but
>> does complicate the data (i.e. not every ejected front wheel is going to be a QR failure).
>
>That's true, but it seems to me that the failure mode is the most probably cause of any particular
>accident, a priori. I'm assuming the victim is a basically competent cyclist who can demonstrate
>that they know how to do up a QR, and all of them (disk brake victims) seem to be
>- not proving they are incapable of error, but greatly reducing the probability compared to some
> kid on a $99 special. That means it's as much up to the manufacturers to prove it didn't happen
> that way, as for the victim (plaintiff) to show that it did.

But by the time we reach that point (where the victim is assumed to be incapable of having done that
which MTBers and roadies have been doing for years), we have left behind the ability to look at the
problem objectively and the actual facts will become somewhat obfuscated (IMHO).

Again, I'm not speaking as a manufacturer (we do very few disc brake bikes), but as someone who
simply doesn't want to see blame automatically assigned to anyone (be that the rider or whoever).
Ask 10 "experienced riders" how to properly do up a QR, and you'll get at least a few different
answers. Ask 100 and I will be you'll get at least a few responses that are "dangerous answers"
(whether that means too loose or too tight).

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
 
"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 19 May 2003 22:02:46 -0700, [email protected] (James Annan) wrote:
>
> >You seem to be arguing very strongly that the QR is not a suitable fastener for the front wheel
> >of any bicycle, not just one with disk brakes.
>
> There's a good argument that nothing short of welding is a suitable fastener for Missy's
> front wheel.
>
> QR's - one M4 thread shearing and your wheel's off. Not entirely encouraging for D/H.

They are uniformly a rolled thread of 5 millimeters. I am woefully ignorant of mountain bike issues.
Do mountain bike riders really break standard Q/R skewers in some frequency? I have not been aware
of that. Seems unlikely but I am listening. . .

--
Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
 
Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...

> But by the time we reach that point (where the victim is assumed to be incapable of having done
> that which MTBers and roadies have been doing for years), we have left behind the ability to look
> at the problem objectively and the actual facts will become somewhat obfuscated (IMHO).

I'm not saying they are incapable of error (after all, they are every bit as human as the engineers
who designed these forks!) but that the design failure seems a more probable a priori explanation
for someone who is reasonably experienced and has comitted no obvious blunder. I think you'll have
difficulty thinking up a plausible operator error for all the reports of repeated regular (if
somewhat intermittent) unscrewing of QRs.

But anyway, I think I've made my point, and I have noticed a substantial increase in the number of
silly typos in my posts recently so it must be time to give it a break and get some sleep.

James
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

P
Missy Lestrange at IMH What Happened?
Replies
1
Views
792
Triathlon
Lee
L
articlebot
Pezcyclingnews: Vuelta’15 St.12: Van Poppel Pops In Lleida!
Replies
0
Views
187
Cycling News Headlines
articlebot
articlebot
TriathleteNut
Always a first... chain pops out.
Replies
5
Views
929
Cycling Equipment
F1_Fan
F1_Fan
bikeguy
chain pops off - going up hill impossible now.
Replies
13
Views
1K
Cycling Equipment
bikeguy
bikeguy
apj31
carbon fork pops on bumps
Replies
5
Views
990
Cycling Equipment
el Ingles
el Ingles
E
  • Locked
Automatic Shifters (e.g. Sturmey Archer): Chain Never Pops Off?
Replies
4
Views
1K
Road Cycling
Ed Kirstein
E
L
  • Locked
tube patch 'blows a bubble' then pops
Replies
8
Views
575
Cycling Equipment
Larry English
L
Top Bottom Back