Miyata 1000 Wheel Questions

[bigstar]

Hey there, I just picked up an '85 Miyata 1000 off of craigslist. It seems like the original owner bought just as a frame and built it up himself with whatever seemed to be lying around. I'm trying to figure out if I should rebuild the old wheels, or update to the newer 700c size.

The current set up-
Mavic G40 rims
36 rusty spokes, f/r
generic high flange front hub
Miche Competition (something like 12-21 gearing)

I've heard good things about the G40's and it looks like they've got some life left in them. I plan on riding solo across america next summer, and flying over to ride on the west coast of Europe for the year after. It seems like there are still a decent selection of 27 inch touring tires, although I couldn't find any folding ones. If I did stick to the G40's, I would rebuild them up to some double butted spokes and replace the front hub. Should I be worried about not having 40 spokes in the back? It seems the only modern hubs offering that many at a 130mm spacing are out of my price range.

If I were to build up new wheels, I think I'd like to have 700c Velocity Dyads 36f and 40r. The problem that would arise from this is the current cantilever set up I have. It stops right on the 27 inch wheels, and I'm afraid the 8mm dive would be to large for the 700c size. The goofy thing is that the '85 model is spec'd to leave the factory with the modern 700c size. Is it possible to adjust the calipers, or would I have to go to a framebuilder to move the braze-ons downwards?

 

[Froze]

That was a great find you made. It was probably one of the best touring bikes ever made at the time, alongside the Trek 720.

If you have a 700c wheel on another bike or have a friend with one then why not try and see if the wheel and the brake will fit? If not perhaps the pad will adjust enough to work or perhaps you may need a set of new calipers with longer reach. But since the bike was built in 85 and spec'd for 700's then I would thing the calipers should have enough pad movement to work.

I would not rebuild the 27 wheels because from what you described their not original anyways? I believe the original hoops where Araya Model 16A3 700c!, with 36 holes up front and 40 hole in the rear riding on Suntour hubs. for some reason the owner replaced the rims with 27's. When you said you had an 85 I thought maybe you actually had an 84, but even in 84 they used 700c's thus your bike did not leave the factory with 27's, someone at sometime made a swap.

I would say get a set of 700 wheels made for only because the tire choices are far greater, and the set your thinking about are extremely good wheels...or you could surf e-bay and try to find the original rims if you want it factory stock.

 

[bigstar]

sweet! I think I'll likely build up the new wheels since I've got enough time to put some money away for some nicer equipment.

Is it very risky to respace the frame from 125mm to 135mm? Looks like most modern hubs are 135mm, and most max out at 36 spokes.

Anybody know of a decently priced 40h rear cassette hub? Looks like even Shimano's mountain bike range has discarded it. I definitely don't have the $400 for Phil Wood.

Thanks for the help,

Jonny

 

[Froze]

sweet! I think I'll likely build up the new wheels since I've got enough time to put some money away for some nicer equipment.

Is it very risky to respace the frame from 125mm to 135mm? Looks like most modern hubs are 135mm, and most max out at 36 spokes.

Anybody know of a decently priced 40h rear cassette hub? Looks like even Shimano's mountain bike range has discarded it. I definitely don't have the $400 for Phil Wood.

Thanks for the help,

Jonny

Check to make sure I'm right about the 700's fitting by trying with yours or someone elses 700's.

If your wanting to go to cassette, which I wouldn't but that's just me, you would have to have the rear stays spread open to accommodate the 135 width, which is not a big deal since the bike is a steel frame bike and only steel can handle that.

Velocity (which is the lowest cost at aroung $100) and White Industries (around $275) makes a hub that is for 40 spokes which would be cheaper the Phil Wood, and they make both front and rear.

 

[fillarji]

Hello,

I am considering buying a colnago master piu, but I am not sure if the paintjob is original, because the headtube logo is different and the columbus sticker is missing... See the pictures

http://www.flickr.com/photos/51587436@N05/4748161667/

Also notice that the colnago down tube logo is slightly uneven:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51587436@N05/4748788936/in/photostream/

It definately is well done if it's a repaint, with the ernesto colnago autograph and details... Altough, I have seen in some Piu's a "Decor" text at the point where the ernesto signature is(top tube).

Thanks!

 

[Froze]

The bike is a Colnago, you can tell by the fluted tubes, a little difficult to fake that. The paint looks original, but without actually being there looking at the bike it's difficult to tell. It appears though that something happened to the N and the A and those letters were replaced with inaccurate size, black shade slightly off, and poor alignment. Question is why was just the N and the A replaced. More then likely they probably either faded or got rubbed off, it's also possible that that section of the frame was damaged and they repaired it, spot painted it then reapplied new graphics. Problem with that theory is, again without being there to look at it, it doesn't appear to have been repainted.

 

[fillarji]

I don't think the color/shade is off in the N and A letters, or they are misaligned. More like the C and O letters on the downtube look misaligned. Here's another pic where it's clearly seen that the CO are "misaligned". http://www.flickr.com/photos/51587436@N05/4748151675/in/photostream/

 

[blacksheepone]

The bike is definitely a real Colnago Master. I can't help noticing the obvious faults in the paintjob. Seem like it has been said here before that some parts (not the entire paintjob) have been redone. Which brings me to asking WHY that was the case...
Also notice that the frontfork isn't the original .... Any reasons why this was changed ? And is there a link to what happened to the paintjob on ?
A crash due to broken fork ?

 

[Froze]

I don't see any signs of frame buckling, it's difficult to fix that without repainting. After looking at the photos again, I'm wondering two things due to the unclear photos. First, did Colnago used odd size letters to get the letters to fit the fluted tubing so it wouldn't peel if laid on a flute. Second, did the craftsman who laid down the letters do a **** poor job. Italians have always had lower quality paint and decal work compared to others, so maybe?

The carbon fork could be as simple as the person who owned the bike originally wanted the bike to lose about a pound of weight so he removed the chrome fork and put on the CF fork. Or it could be as one poster mentioned, he crashed he front end taking out the fork and then replaced it.

If the fork was damaged was the headset damaged? What headset is on the bike now? If not the original headset that "could" be an indicator the fork was damaged.

This is one of those things where I wish I could be there and not rely on photos that can trick the eye.

 

[steve]

Quote: Originally Posted by blacksheepone .

I can't help noticing the obvious faults in the paintjob.



I read somewhere that most from that have less than perfect paint jobs. Nice bike though!

 

[swampy1970]

A Colnago that seems mystically devoid of seattube bottle cage bosses...

And someone give the lad an old school Cinelli or 3TTT stem to put on the bike instead of that hideous contraption that was bought for $1 at a rummage sale.

 

[swampy1970]

Originally Posted by Froze .

I don't see any signs of frame buckling, it's difficult to fix that without repainting. After looking at the photos again, I'm wondering two things due to the unclear photos. First, did Colnago used odd size letters to get the letters to fit the fluted tubing so it wouldn't peel if laid on a flute. Second, did the craftsman who laid down the letters do a **** poor job. Italians have always had lower quality paint and decal work compared to others, so maybe?

Italians are great at artsy stuff - and the paint is nearly always top notch. I lived not too far from a big Colnago and De Rosa dealer when I was a kid and was always amazed by the quality of the finish.

Where Italians tend to fail is in mechanical or electrical engineering... Thankfully, unlike spontaneously combusting Lambos or Ducatis that's buck you off faster than you can blink an eye because of some dodgy wiring somewhere, you're on bicycle - thankfully for you not equiped with the Campag equivalent of Di2.

The headset most likely got changed out when they replaced the fork. If you have a steerer tube that has no threads then the oldschool headset aint gonna work.

 

[blacksheepone]

Hi there !!
Just as a reply on the poster that sais that italian paintjobs are messy...

I've owned a Colnago Master Piu for 15 years now and let me tell you that the paintjob is near to perfection.
A real artwork....

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However although mine is real and still has the original paintjob it also (like the bike of this thread) doesn't have the columbus sticker....and actually never had....

P.S. The fork is a Look fork ?!!? Seems this bike had a long history ...

 

[Johnp234]

If that is a repaint, I want to know who did it! I have a Master Art Decor with original paint that could use some work, and yours looks good to me!

 

[Froze]

I have always heard from others that European paint is not as good as what American and Japanese paint was. I'm not talking about the artsyness of the paint but rather the durability.

However after looking much closer at the bike with the zoom feature on I think the bike was hit, buckled the frame where the decal is odd, they then straightened it and attempted to replace the decal. Once I zoomed in on it it appears all the letters in Colnago were replaced. The C does not align evenly with the flutes, the O is a bit higher then the C, the L is slightly skewed as is the N, the A doesn't even look like it belongs since it appears to be different font, and the G and the last O is not aligned with the flutes. I thought maybe camera angle was playing tricks but now I don't think so...though obviously not being there it's difficult to tell real accurately in a pic. Having never owned a Colnago, but have seen many, I thought the letters were from the top edge of the letter to the bottom of the top flute and the bottom edge of the letter on the top edge of the bottom flute on the down tube. Am I correct in this memory of this particular bike?

 

[champion118]

the person who owned the bike originally wanted the bike to lose wholesale hair extensions about a pound of weight so he removed wholesale human hair the chrome fork and put on the CF fork. Or it could be as one poster mentioned, he crashed he wholesale hair weave front end taking out the fork and then replaced it.