Mobile 'phones crackdown

why not use your new fangled camera phone to take a picture:-)

and the mobile operators charge the police to obtain telephone records,
nothing is for free in this life.

cheers
Jon_H

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just a thought: if there are now rewards for shopping DSS frauds, why
not have the same for drivers on 'phones? can't be that hard,
freephone, reg number and time, they can get the rest of the
information from the cellphone company. The number of oblivous drivers
still with the bloody things welded to their ears beggars belief.

It'd be nice if it were workable, but how do you prove it? What would there
be to stop malicious claims?

More in the Mail today on this subject:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=326762&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source=

But unless there are more traffic police out there to enforce it, it will be
yet another wasted exercise.

Peter

But unless there are more traffic police out there to enforce it, it
will be
yet another wasted exercise.

Cannot traffic wardens do this sort of thing? I thought they could
issue fixed penalties for red light/box junction jumping etc.

Cameras is the way to go, why not just film everyone and pull the ones
with phones? or is there a civil liberty issue there?

I'm on way out to take a couple of pictures 🙂 and will post them here.
Surely there must be some tw*ts around driving while of the phone, or
vice versa!!!!

Pyromancer said:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Ziggi
<[email hidden]> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

Sorry about the quote mistake. And for the question how to prove that
the driver was seen using his/her phone while driving, well you can't
really. Or may be there are ways to do it. Gotta think about it.

You'd have to photograph them driving while on the phone. Perhaps we
need a GATSO variant that can detect mobile phone signals approaching at
faster than walking pace and fire off a pic as the car passes? :-)

erics said:

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just a thought: if there are now rewards for shopping DSS frauds, why
not have the same for drivers on 'phones? can't be that hard,
freephone, reg number and time, they can get the rest of the
information from the cellphone company. The number of oblivous drivers
still with the bloody things welded to their ears beggars belief.

Quoted message said:

the cellphone records prove they were on the phone at the said time, but how
do you prove they were actually driving at that same point in time?

Take a photo of them with your mobile phone.
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

MartinM said:

erics said:

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just a thought: if there are now rewards for shopping DSS frauds,

why

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not have the same for drivers on 'phones? can't be that hard,
freephone, reg number and time, they can get the rest of the
information from the cellphone company. The number of oblivous

drivers

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

still with the bloody things welded to their ears beggars belief.

the cellphone records prove they were on the phone at the said time,

but how

Quoted message said:

do you prove they were actually driving at that same point in time?

Quoted message said:

I was just having this conversation with a colleague; possibly by
reference to the cellphone mast; I beleive they can pinpoint your
whereabouts (so presumably if you are moving as well).

It's not a pin-point to locate you to the mast you're using, it's the
nearest few hundred yards, and it can't tell if you're moving. Even if
it could, how do you tell the difference between between driving and
being a passenger in a car, taxi, or bus?

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Pyromancer said:

You'd have to photograph them driving while on the phone. Perhaps we
need a GATSO variant that can detect mobile phone signals approaching at
faster than walking pace and fire off a pic as the car passes? :-)

I belive already up and running in Germany :-D

Peter Riley-Jordan said:

drivers will undergo re-training.

Yeah, hold the phone under the palm of your hand so that others can't
see it.

Sack on the spot !!!

In article said:

Just a thought: if there are now rewards for shopping DSS frauds, why
not have the same for drivers on 'phones? can't be that hard,
freephone, reg number and time, they can get the rest of the
information from the cellphone company. The number of oblivous drivers
still with the bloody things welded to their ears beggars belief.

Driver, confronted with cellphone company records claims that he was
parked at the time, or that he was using a handsfree system, and the
witness must be mistaken.

Peter Riley-Jordan said:

Mark - No reflection on her sex at all, nor the use of expensive

cars, or

Quoted message said:

private schools, it's just her stupidity that got to me. Very young

child on

Quoted message said:

board, a blatant disregard for it's safety and other road users

including

Quoted message said:

myself.

If they can afford a vehicle like that surely a few quid to go

hands-free

Quoted message said:

would not break the bank.

In some ways a rational decision (within strict terms) to save your
money given that.
a. hand-free isn't safer
b. there is very little, if any, enforcement

I support the aims of the mobile phone bill but am slightly troubled by
the strong suspicion that it is bad legislation

best wishes
james

erics said:

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

but how do police currently do it? presumably pull the driver over.

They don't!

If you phoned up the police and said that car reg "so and so" was doing
40mph in a 30mph zone and then gave details of the time, location, etc, do
you think the police would go round and issue a ticket on your (or anyone
elses) so so? I am not sure, even if the resources were available, they
would.

The police are empowered to enforce the law based on evidence, if *they*
witness the crime this carries a lot more weight in a court of law than a
stranger, even one of good background and standing in the community. If
several phone calls are reporting the same person at the same time the
weight of evidence may stack up. I just don't see a single phone call
leading to any conviction.

Police need two calls reporting same type of behaviour to even think
about doing anything, as I discovered after near miss with
stupid-[censored]-in-flatbed-truck who was driving dangerously and
agressively (attempting to run several cars off the road). I doubt the
police have the resources to go after people using mobiles vs the above,
sadly.

Since I was never contacted re the above (despite telling them I would
be a witness blah blah) I have to assume either police caught up with,
witnessed themselves, and dealt with on the spot, or never got him, and
never pressed charges because of the 'your word vs his' problem...

--

Velvet

MartinM said:

Pyromancer said:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Ziggi
<[email hidden]> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

Sorry about the quote mistake. And for the question how to prove

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the driver was seen using his/her phone while driving, well you

can't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

really. Or may be there are ways to do it. Gotta think about it.

You'd have to photograph them driving while on the phone. Perhaps we
need a GATSO variant that can detect mobile phone signals approaching

at

Quoted message said:

faster than walking pace and fire off a pic as the car passes? :-)

Not all that improbable; if my minidisc player can pick up the
bleepy-bleep noise of a phone ringing on the train then it ought to be
possible. I'm sure if a train driver caused a crash through talking on
a mobile there would be demands for all sorts of warnings/ATP/TPWS etc.

Drivers in a crash suspected of being on the phone can already have the
phone records checked to ascertain if they were using it or not. Not
sure how often it's checked, mind you, but I know it is possible for
them to request the info of the cell phone company.

--

Velvet

Peter Riley-Jordan said:

I have in the past reported a female driver to the police whom I saw driving
with a child in the car (expensive) for at least 5 miles and turned into a
private school. The response from the Bill was "did I have a witness?" if I
had I could make an official complaint at my local station. So I guess if 2
of you saw a driver on the phone you could get the person "sorted".

As far as business users go, I have contacted a couple of companies TNT and
NTL after I saw a couple of their drivers on the phone. One had a pager in
one hand and mobile in the other. The responses from the companies are
usually apologetic and say that the drivers will undergo re-training.

Peter

I used to work for NTL, and I know for a fact that mobile use in
vehicles was absolutely banned unless a hands-free kit was being used.
I underwent that 'training' at the time the law changed.

I'll just say that much depends on the determination of the person to
refuse to answer the phone whilst not in hands-free and on the move,
especially if their boss is less than understanding of the fact that it
really is a big deal.

Luckily mine knew what was right and not, and we'd had hands-free kits
fitted from day one of starting work there. I still insist on a car
kit, and turn the phone off when I get in the car if there's no car kit
- even those 'personal car kit' things are more dangerous when the ear
bits fall out.

At the end of the day, the buck stops with higher up in the company than
the driver, though the driver would get done too. The company has to
prove they've done all they can to prevent an employee from using the
phone non-handsfree, and as part of that there was a hefty deterrent of
the sack. Whether enforced or not is a different matter, of course.

--

Velvet

Quoted message said:

Peter Riley-Jordan said:

Mark - No reflection on her sex at all, nor the use of expensive

cars, or

Quoted message said:

private schools, it's just her stupidity that got to me. Very young

child on

Quoted message said:

board, a blatant disregard for it's safety and other road users

including

Quoted message said:

myself.

If they can afford a vehicle like that surely a few quid to go

hands-free

Quoted message said:

would not break the bank.

In some ways a rational decision (within strict terms) to save your
money given that.
a. hand-free isn't safer
b. there is very little, if any, enforcement

I support the aims of the mobile phone bill but am slightly troubled by
the strong suspicion that it is bad legislation

best wishes
james

I've heard all the research but I refuse to believe hands-free is no
safer than attempting to negotiate a roundabout with a phone clamped
between ear and shoulder, so you're unable to look around without
dropping said phone in your lap etc.

--

Velvet

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Cameras is the way to go, why not just film everyone and pull the ones
with phones? or is there a civil liberty issue there?

Just a bit :-)

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Chris
Malcolm <[email hidden]> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

It's not a pin-point to locate you to the mast you're using, it's the
nearest few hundred yards, and it can't tell if you're moving. Even if
it could, how do you tell the difference between between driving and
being a passenger in a car, taxi, or bus?

All of wich of course points back to the fact that what we really need
are more police out and about, able to witness these things and take the
appropriate action. If the govt really do manage to put lots of police
constables back on the beat, perhaps they might help - only a complete
moron would drive on a phone with a highly visible police car behind
them, but many more might be caught by foot patrols who witness the
event and report it by radio for a traffic car to pick up later.

NP: Within Temptation - Deciever of Fools.
--
- Pyromancer Stormshadow.
http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk <-- Pagan Gothic Rock!
http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk <-- Electronic Metal!
http://www.revival.stormshadow.com <-- The Gothic Revival.

Chris Malcolm said:

It's not a pin-point to locate you to the mast you're using, it's the
nearest few hundred yards, and it can't tell if you're moving. Even if
it could, how do you tell the difference between between driving and
being a passenger in a car, taxi, or bus?

Usual mode of transport to work, other witness statements, etc etc. FFS,
some of you seem to think that no crime can be investigated unless 3 JPs
provide full descriptions of how they saw every second in close-up
detail. It doesn't work like that for any 'real' criminal offence, and
it only works like that for driving offences because the police can't be
bothered taking it seriously (an attitude that may be partially
justified by the response from the courts).

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is
by treading on the toes of giants.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/

Nathaniel Porter said:

It'd be nice if it were workable, but how do you prove it? What would there
be to stop malicious claims?

So...um....why not have a think about how workable a "malicious claim"
would be, and how quicly the malicious claimant would find themselves
accused of wasting police time.

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is
by treading on the toes of giants.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/

Nathaniel Porter said:

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Cameras is the way to go, why not just film everyone and pull the ones
with phones? or is there a civil liberty issue there?

Just a bit :-)

What is the civil liberty issue with people being photographed in public
places? It happens all the time. It would be very difficult indeed to
use a camera in Japan if permission had to be sought from all those
photographed.

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is
by treading on the toes of giants.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/