Monster SUV and Cell Phone

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Stratrider, Apr 1, 2003.

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  1. Stratrider

    Stratrider Guest

    Well, today's morning commute was no exception. With a wide shoulder, and two clear lanes to work
    with, yet another impatient monster SUV driver (this time female, may be soccer mom vintage) with
    cell in hand ripped across my path to beat me to the entrance ramp to the highway. As she ripped by
    (intentionally close) and with no other drives present, she SALUTED me with the middle finger!
    First, I was relieved that she didn't hit me. Then, I was furious! What is it about this auto
    centric mentality that refuses to share the 36 inches of macadam I require!

    Perhaps a stinger missle mounted to my Stratus would make this common event more fair. I wonder if
    Rans might sell the mounting hardware..... hmmm

    Jim Reilly Reading, PA
     
    Tags:


  2. x

    x Guest

    RE/
    >ripped across my path to beat me to the entrance ramp to the highway.

    I find this to be a recurrant hazard - not just with entrance ramps, but also with turnoffs.

    The last one that almost got me looked like she was rushing to make an appearance on Jerry
    Springer: clapped-out 80-something twodoor, hair curlers, sucking on a cigarette... It was a right
    turn and she just couldn't slow down for that three-quarters of a second to come in behind me
    instead of at me.
    -----------------------
    PeteCresswell
     
  3. Geob

    Geob Guest

    > As she ripped by (intentionally close) and with no other drives present, she SALUTED me with the
    > middle finger!

    I believe that this dog-eat-dog world produces many people who are dumped on at the bottom (in their
    work, marriage, world, whatever). When they find themselves able to dominate someone else as she
    could in her vehicle, it gave her a measure of empowerment. So, she didn't mean it personally. :)

    > Perhaps a stinger missle mounted to my Stratus would make this common event more fair. I wonder if
    > Rans might sell the mounting hardware..... hmmm

    I doubt RANS would, but there is a lot of Homeland Security money out there, maybe you could get a
    grant. Was she middle-eastern?

    Oh! Oh! I know! I have used some fireworks/rockets thingees. they come in a plastic box/launcher
    with like two rows of six small rockets each. You hold it up in the general direction of the target
    to be destroyed, fire them off, and one or two at a time they shoot out trailing smoke, making a
    loud whistle, and then explode after the engine runs out. They will go 100-150 feet. They remind me
    of the small rockets fired from the Hueys at the people running across rice paddies. They are great!
    Electrically fired (somehow) and mounted on the bike, I think it would an attention-getter. Two or
    three through an open window particularly. I had one get caught in my clothes.. well, more than one,
    but this was the only one I couldn't dislodge in time.. and it blew a hole in my new Ban-lon knit
    shirt and gave me a lovely bruise.

    I have been noticing that the lil digital video cameras are getting very small. I think maybe one of
    them running in a continuous loop, and helmet-mounted might help identify these creeps. And it may
    be of interest to your estate.

    This kinda stuff happens all the time to me. Yesterday it was a Hmong lady (not that this matters)
    in a Toyota sedan. She had a right-rear window open, so after she pulled out in front of me (Thanks,
    Vision, for those great brakes) I pulled up next to her at the red light. I talked very reasonably
    to her about what she could have done instead, but she wouldn't acknowledge my presence.

    I was riding with my Bud, he on a DF, in a wide smooth bikelane. A lady came swooshing in from
    behind us to make her right turn. My Bud was slightly ahead and to my left. As I stood my R40 on its
    nose and he his DF, I looked to the side and had a perfect view of her rear bumper sliding past with
    an ample four inches from his front tire.
     
  4. I carry a compressed air can with "boat horn" in a water bottle holder of my TE for just such
    occasions. I can't tell you how often I have been cut off by overtaking drivers making a right turn
    in front of me. Many are just poor judges of bike speed and I am willing to holler "wake up" -
    that's cutting them a bit of slack. Some are really dangerous - either they aren't paying attention
    to the environment (including me), or they are just tooooo busy with their personal issues to care
    about my safety. Those people get a big long two second blast of air.

    One day, a near miss motorist was shaken back into consciousness by the airhorn, slammed on the
    brakes and began to get out of his car. I got off the bike and picked up my pepper spray bottle. He
    got back in the car and took off. By the way, I find that there isn't any predominance of SUV
    drivers - big trucks, little trucks, SUVs, cars, they are all represented in their fair shares as
    offenders around here.

    "GeoB" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > As she ripped by (intentionally close) and with no other drives present, she SALUTED me with the
    > > middle finger!
    >
    > I believe that this dog-eat-dog world produces many people who are dumped on at the bottom (in
    > their work, marriage, world, whatever). When they find themselves able to dominate someone else
    > as she could in her vehicle, it gave her a measure of empowerment. So, she didn't mean it
    > personally. :)
    >
    > > Perhaps a stinger missle mounted to my Stratus would make this common event more fair. I wonder
    > > if Rans might sell the mounting hardware..... hmmm
    >
    > I doubt RANS would, but there is a lot of Homeland Security money out there, maybe you could get a
    > grant. Was she middle-eastern?
    >
    > Oh! Oh! I know! I have used some fireworks/rockets thingees. they come in a plastic box/launcher
    > with like two rows of six small rockets each. You hold it up in the general direction of the
    > target to be destroyed, fire them off, and one or two at a time they shoot out trailing smoke,
    > making a loud whistle, and then explode after the engine runs out. They will go 100-150 feet. They
    > remind me of the small rockets fired from the Hueys at the people running across rice paddies.
    > They are great! Electrically fired (somehow) and mounted on the bike, I think it would an
    > attention-getter. Two or three through an open window particularly. I had one get caught in my
    > clothes.. well, more than one, but this was the only one I couldn't dislodge in time.. and it blew
    > a hole in my new Ban-lon knit shirt and gave me a lovely bruise.
    >
    > I have been noticing that the lil digital video cameras are getting very small. I think maybe one
    > of them running in a continuous loop, and helmet-mounted might help identify these creeps. And it
    > may be of interest to your estate.
    >
    > This kinda stuff happens all the time to me. Yesterday it was a Hmong lady (not that this matters)
    > in a Toyota sedan. She had a right-rear window open, so after she pulled out in front of me
    > (Thanks, Vision, for those great brakes) I pulled up next to her at the red light. I talked very
    > reasonably to her about what she could have done instead, but she wouldn't acknowledge my
    > presence.
    >
    > I was riding with my Bud, he on a DF, in a wide smooth bikelane. A lady came swooshing in from
    > behind us to make her right turn. My Bud was slightly ahead and to my left. As I stood my R40 on
    > its nose and he his DF, I looked to the side and had a perfect view of her rear bumper sliding
    > past with an ample four inches from his front tire.
     
  5. Gary Mc

    Gary Mc Guest

    I think that some folks take any deviation from their lifestyle to be a threat. If they have it
    made, then all folks should want to be just like them. If someone chooses be different, they infer a
    rejection to their choices in life.

    The driver might be right from what I read about SUV's on this board. The truth is that we diss
    DF's, SUV's and "soccer moms". Maybe, we need to find a way to call a truce and leave off the
    name calling.

    Our local bike club has two main themes regarding access to roads by cyclists: Cyclists should have
    safe, equal access, and cyclists should obey traffic laws. I have seen many cyclists disobeying the
    traffic laws lately. That does not make them fair game in my eyes, but I can understand the
    frustration in the mind of some motorists.

    You may be a safe cyclist. I am trying to curb my natural tendency to run stop signs. I suspect that
    many cyclists and car drivers have some improvement to make. We need to respect each other more. We
    (cyclists) might start by ceasing to lump folks as SUV drivers and soccer moms.

    Gary McCarty, Greenspeed GTO, Salt Lake City

    [email protected] (stratrider) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > With a wide shoulder, and two clear lanes to work with, yet another impatient monster SUV
    > driver (this time female, may be soccer mom vintage) with cell in hand ripped across my path to
    > beat me to the entrance ramp to the highway. As she ripped by (intentionally close) and with no
    > other drives present, she SALUTED me with the middle finger! First, I was relieved that she
    > didn't hit me.
     
  6. I agree and disagree.

    I absolutely agree that we need to stop stereotyping "soccer moms" and "SUV drivers." (I drive a
    pickup most of the time!)

    I disagree that we need to focus attention on our behavior as cyclists. I ALWAYS obey the rules. I
    am NOT the problem here. Even if all cyclists obeyed all the rules all the time, I am willing to bet
    the same number of inattentive drivers would cut us off. We (both cyclists and drivers) need to
    focus on how we share the surface. I believe the real solution involves:

    (1) Making sure that drivers know you are there. I will admit as a driver (and very frequent TE
    rider) I have sometimes overlooked cyclists at intersections. Drivers are trained from birth to
    worry about cars at intersections, not bikes. Seeing things at intersections requires a very
    concious act - "look left, look right, look left again." This has nothing to do with how we feel
    about each other as human beings. So what do we do? Draw attention to ourselves. Bright lights,
    reflectors, flags, anything to make the drivers notice we are there. I don't cross an
    intersection until I have eye contact with the motorists in the area. Drivers need occasional
    wake up calls, but as I said in a previous post, many of the close calls I have had with drivers
    didn't invlove rage or rudeness, just people who weren't trained to see and anticipate (proper
    and legal) bike behavior around them.

    (2) Teach auto drivers the rules. Here in NY, the vehicle manual for auto license applicants has two
    paragraphs about bicycles. We need to do better as a society in educating drivers about the
    shared surfaces. Many assume that bikes are supposed to be on the sidewalk (even if there is
    none), or that cars always have the right of way. While we are at it, tear up the license of any
    first time DWI. The only deliberate attempt on my life was a 4th of July weaving drunk (9 am
    too!). Surprise, there was a cop around the corner. Problem solved.

    (3) Maybe we should insist that dangerous behavior towards bikes by auto drivers should be treated
    as "road rage." Here in NY, the local police were arresting those making rights turns on red
    (legal here) without proper stop and look (not legal here) as "road rage" in order to qualify
    for federal funding specific to "road rage" enforcement. Hey, if you can bust 'em for "road
    rage" when nobody else was involved, how about when the motorist damn near kills me? Obvious
    "road rage" by NY standards! The police ought to be happy to follow up - their department will
    be rewarded with additional funding.

    (4) Make them achieve conciousness. I believe screaming (not obsenities), blowing horns, and just
    plain being an a**hole are a fair response to someone who about ran you over. If nothing else,
    they should have been paying more attention to the world around them, and you are doing them a
    favor by retraining their "autopilot."

    "Gary Mc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I think that some folks take any deviation from their lifestyle to be a threat. If they have it
    > made, then all folks should want to be just like them. If someone chooses be different, they infer
    > a rejection to their choices in life.
    >
    > The driver might be right from what I read about SUV's on this board. The truth is that we diss
    > DF's, SUV's and "soccer moms". Maybe, we need to find a way to call a truce and leave off the name
    > calling.
    >
    > Our local bike club has two main themes regarding access to roads by cyclists: Cyclists should
    > have safe, equal access, and cyclists should obey traffic laws. I have seen many cyclists
    > disobeying the traffic laws lately. That does not make them fair game in my eyes, but I can
    > understand the frustration in the mind of some motorists.
    >
    > You may be a safe cyclist. I am trying to curb my natural tendency to run stop signs. I suspect
    > that many cyclists and car drivers have some improvement to make. We need to respect each other
    > more. We (cyclists) might start by ceasing to lump folks as SUV drivers and soccer moms.
    >
    > Gary McCarty, Greenspeed GTO, Salt Lake City
    >
    > [email protected] (stratrider) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > With a wide shoulder, and two clear lanes to work with, yet another impatient monster SUV
    > > driver (this time female, may be soccer mom vintage) with cell in hand ripped across my path to
    > > beat me to the entrance ramp to the highway. As she ripped by (intentionally close) and with no
    > > other drives present, she SALUTED me with the middle finger! First, I was relieved that she
    > > didn't hit me.
     
  7. Hillbiker

    Hillbiker Guest

    Things that I find help a little (without getting into why 1/3-hp-me has to "help" 300-hp-them!)

    -- when I am approaching one of those "psuedo-exit-ramp"s off the right of a main drag, I ride
    farther to the LEFT of the lane. I think it sends a clear signal that "I am NOT turning right, nor
    am I riding down the berm. If you absolutely cannot bear to arrive at the next stop light 3 seconds
    later, YOU may drive on the berm."

    -- I gear down, so that the driver gets a better perception of motion from my churning legs.

    -- I give 'em a wobble (sometimes inadvertantly; I'm a lousy spinner)

    Nothing very original here, but maybe some newbies haven't heard them before.
     
  8. x

    x Guest

    RE/
    >Oh! Oh! I know! I have used some fireworks/rockets thingees. they come in a plastic box/launcher
    >with like two rows of six small rockets each. You hold it up in the general direction of the target
    >to be destroyed, fire them off, and one or two at a time they shoot out trailing smoke, making a
    >loud whistle, and then explode after the engine runs out. They will go 100-150 feet.

    Why mess around? Go for the real thing: http://www.west.net/~lpm/hobie/archives/v1-i2/humor.shtml
    -----------------------
    PeteCresswell
     
  9. Jerry Rhodes

    Jerry Rhodes Guest

    (GeoB) wrote in message

    > I talked very reasonably to her about what she could have done instead, but she wouldn't
    > acknowledge my presence.

    I was waiting in line at a light on my Honda Trail 90 on the "driver's side" shiny spot in the road.
    Suddenly a lady pulls up right next to me and bumps my handle bar with her mirror. I loudly
    proclaimed to her to MOVE BACK!!!!

    When she ignored me, I slammed my arm and fist down on the top of the
    car. I left a deep dent on the top, the shape of my forearm and fist.
    She almost rear ended several cars in front of her in her frantic
    efforts to get away from the middle aged hell's angel on the Moped.

    Jerry
     
  10. Seth Jayson

    Seth Jayson Guest

    I used to think that women shared the road better than men, but I'm thinking that's no longer true.

    The last few times I've been run off the road and nearly hit have all been angry women. A recent
    report of two hit-and-run accidents in Chicago, both car drivers were women.

    I guess maybe we've got gender parity now for selfish driving.

    Sj
     
  11. "(Pete Cresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > RE/
    > >Oh! Oh! I know! I have used some fireworks/rockets thingees. they come in a plastic box/launcher
    > >with like two rows of six small rockets each. You hold it up in the general direction of the
    > >target to be destroyed, fire them off, and one or two at a time they shoot out trailing smoke,
    > >making a loud whistle, and then explode after the engine runs out. They will go 100-150 feet.
    >
    > Why mess around? Go for the real thing: http://www.west.net/~lpm/hobie/archives/v1-i2/humor.shtml
    > -----------------------
    > PeteCresswell

    Now *that* was priceless- a downright belly-laugh!!! THANKS PETE! (Still laughing!)

    Chris Jordan Santa Cruz, CA.
     
  12. Baronn1

    Baronn1 Guest

    Might not be intended to be personal, but always warrants a personal reply...

    "GeoB" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > As she ripped by (intentionally close) and with no other drives present, she SALUTED me with the
    > > middle finger!
    >
    > I believe that this dog-eat-dog world produces many people who are dumped on at the bottom (in
    > their work, marriage, world, whatever). When they find themselves able to dominate someone else
    > as she could in her vehicle, it gave her a measure of empowerment. So, she didn't mean it
    > personally. :)
    >
    > > Perhaps a stinger missle mounted to my Stratus would make this common event more fair. I wonder
    > > if Rans might sell the mounting hardware..... hmmm
    >
    > I doubt RANS would, but there is a lot of Homeland Security money out there, maybe you could get a
    > grant. Was she middle-eastern?
    >
    > Oh! Oh! I know! I have used some fireworks/rockets thingees. they come in a plastic box/launcher
    > with like two rows of six small rockets each. You hold it up in the general direction of the
    > target to be destroyed, fire them off, and one or two at a time they shoot out trailing smoke,
    > making a loud whistle, and then explode after the engine runs out. They will go 100-150 feet. They
    > remind me of the small rockets fired from the Hueys at the people running across rice paddies.
    > They are great! Electrically fired (somehow) and mounted on the bike, I think it would an
    > attention-getter. Two or three through an open window particularly. I had one get caught in my
    > clothes.. well, more than one, but this was the only one I couldn't dislodge in time.. and it blew
    > a hole in my new Ban-lon knit shirt and gave me a lovely bruise.
    >
    > I have been noticing that the lil digital video cameras are getting very small. I think maybe one
    > of them running in a continuous loop, and helmet-mounted might help identify these creeps. And it
    > may be of interest to your estate.
    >
    > This kinda stuff happens all the time to me. Yesterday it was a Hmong lady (not that this matters)
    > in a Toyota sedan. She had a right-rear window open, so after she pulled out in front of me
    > (Thanks, Vision, for those great brakes) I pulled up next to her at the red light. I talked very
    > reasonably to her about what she could have done instead, but she wouldn't acknowledge my
    > presence.
    >
    > I was riding with my Bud, he on a DF, in a wide smooth bikelane. A lady came swooshing in from
    > behind us to make her right turn. My Bud was slightly ahead and to my left. As I stood my R40 on
    > its nose and he his DF, I looked to the side and had a perfect view of her rear bumper sliding
    > past with an ample four inches from his front tire.
     
  13. x

    x Guest

    RE/
    >Now *that* was priceless- a downright belly-laugh!!! THANKS PETE! (Still laughing!)

    Yeah, I saved it to .PDF just in case the site goes down...
    -----------------------
    PeteCresswell
     
  14. Seth Jayson

    Seth Jayson Guest

    > I absolutely agree that we need to stop stereotyping "soccer moms"

    I'm beginning to wonder about that one. On my commute this morning, the only three cars that cut me
    off were moms with kids in tow...

    As for Bicyclist NOT being the problem, I find that to be BS. As a pedestrian, I routinely get run
    off the road by bike messengers in chicago, and I see bicyclists cutting stop signs all the time.

    This article, which I paste from the March issue of bike traffic from www.biketraffic.org, has some
    interesting information on Stopping.

    -------

    When I say stop, I mean stop! Jim Nugent, Park Forest

    What does it mean to stop? It's getting harder to tell nowadays. In 1979, psychologists studying
    drivers' behavior at stop signs noted that 37% came to a full stop, 34% made a rolling stop, and 29%
    didn't stop at all. In 1996 3% came to a full stop, another 3% made a rolling stop, while the other
    94% just kept on rolling.

    In a car-bike accident study researchers looked at 3000 crashes in six states and found that 40%
    involved failure to yield the right of way at a sign or signal. Fault was about evenly divided
    between the cyclists and the auto drivers. The U.S. Department of Transportation similarly reports
    that 33% of bicycle deaths in 2001 occurred at intersections. Cutting car drivers more slack at
    signed or signaled intersections just might make your bicycle experience less surgical.

    Cars that don't yield or stop at intersections are responsible for about 25% of car-bike accidents.
    Even worse, in 60% of these cases police report the cyclist victim was going against traffic on the
    wrong side of the street.

    A second 25% of car-bike accidents happen between intersections when cars and bikes are pulling onto
    the highway. The law says that all vehicles must come to a stop before entering a roadway, but it's
    becoming increasingly common to see cars scoot out of gas stations, fast food joints, driveways, and
    parking lots at higher and higher speeds. About 2% of these mid-block accidents are caused by cars
    backing out; 7% are cars driving out mid-block without stopping; and 13% are caused by cyclists
    riding out of driveways without stopping. Of course, younger cyclists make up a good percentage of
    that last category. Safety education anyone? Drivers who cut into street traffic without stopping
    just don't have the time to see wrong-way cyclists or sidewalk users.

    Automobile drivers also like to roll around corners that allow right turns on red. What started out
    with "stop, look, and then proceed with caution" has turned into "speed up and race around the
    corner in order to beat some oncoming car." About 4% of car-bike accidents occur when cars make a
    right turn on red. The blame isn't all on the auto drivers though, four out five bicyclists in these
    collisions were riding on the wrong side of the road against traffic. In addition, half of the
    cyclists hit were crossing in marked crosswalks.

    A few sensible safety steps can improve a cyclist's chance of survival on the streets. The data
    suggest that riding in the streets with the flow of traffic lowers your risk of being hit by a motor
    vehicle.Riding a bicycle properly can be safer than driving. Use extra care at intersections and
    give cars an extra allowance of space just in case they run the signal or roll through the stop
    sign. If cars won't stop, maybe cyclists should. And finally, maybe it's time for increased
    education and enforcement of stops: at stop signs, as drivers enter roadways, and at lights where
    right turns are permitted on red.

    Data for this article was gathered from: Federal Highway Administration Pedestrian & Bicycle Safety
    Research, www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pedbike/pedbike.htm Pedestrian and Bicycle Information Center,
    bicyclinginfo.org/bc/perspective.htm
     
  15. Bob Wand

    Bob Wand Guest

    A Police Officer pulled the driver over who had just ran a stop sign. "Officer what did I do?" "You
    just ran that stop sign," said the Officer. "But Officer I slowed down" said the driver. With that
    reply the Officer decided to teach the driver a lesson. He pulled out his club and started to beat
    the driver. "Now do you want me to stop or slow down," said the Officer.

    "Seth Jayson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > > I absolutely agree that we need to stop stereotyping "soccer moms"
    >
    > I'm beginning to wonder about that one. On my commute this morning, the only three cars that cut
    > me off were moms with kids in tow...
    >
    > As for Bicyclist NOT being the problem, I find that to be BS. As a pedestrian, I routinely get run
    > off the road by bike messengers in chicago, and I see bicyclists cutting stop signs all the time.
    >
    > This article, which I paste from the March issue of bike traffic from www.biketraffic.org, has
    > some interesting information on Stopping.
    >
    > -------
    >
    > When I say stop, I mean stop! Jim Nugent, Park Forest
    >
    > What does it mean to stop? It's getting harder to tell nowadays. In 1979, psychologists studying
    > drivers' behavior at stop signs noted that 37% came to a full stop, 34% made a rolling stop, and
    > 29% didn't stop at all. In 1996 3% came to a full stop, another 3% made a rolling stop, while the
    > other 94% just kept on rolling.
    >
    > In a car-bike accident study researchers looked at 3000 crashes in six states and found that 40%
    > involved failure to yield the right of way at a sign or signal. Fault was about evenly divided
    > between the cyclists and the auto drivers. The U.S. Department of Transportation similarly reports
    > that 33% of bicycle deaths in 2001 occurred at intersections. Cutting car drivers more slack at
    > signed or signaled intersections just might make your bicycle experience less surgical.
    >
    > Cars that don't yield or stop at intersections are responsible for about 25% of car-bike
    > accidents. Even worse, in 60% of these cases police report the cyclist victim was going against
    > traffic on the wrong side of the street.
    >
    > A second 25% of car-bike accidents happen between intersections when cars and bikes are pulling
    > onto the highway. The law says that all vehicles must come to a stop before entering a roadway,
    > but it's becoming increasingly common to see cars scoot out of gas stations, fast food joints,
    > driveways, and parking lots at higher and higher speeds. About 2% of these mid-block accidents are
    > caused by cars backing out; 7% are cars driving out mid-block without stopping; and 13% are caused
    > by cyclists riding out of driveways without stopping. Of course, younger cyclists make up a good
    > percentage of that last category. Safety education anyone? Drivers who cut into street traffic
    > without stopping just don't have the time to see wrong-way cyclists or sidewalk users.
    >
    > Automobile drivers also like to roll around corners that allow right turns on red. What started
    > out with "stop, look, and then proceed with caution" has turned into "speed up and race around the
    > corner in order to beat some oncoming car." About 4% of car-bike accidents occur when cars make a
    > right turn on red. The blame isn't all on the auto drivers though, four out five bicyclists in
    > these collisions were riding on the wrong side of the road against traffic. In addition, half of
    > the cyclists hit were crossing in marked crosswalks.
    >
    > A few sensible safety steps can improve a cyclist's chance of survival on the streets. The data
    > suggest that riding in the streets with the flow of traffic lowers your risk of being hit by a
    > motor vehicle.Riding a bicycle properly can be safer than driving. Use extra care at intersections
    > and give cars an extra allowance of space just in case they run the signal or roll through the
    > stop sign. If cars won't stop, maybe cyclists should. And finally, maybe it's time for increased
    > education and enforcement of stops: at stop signs, as drivers enter roadways, and at lights where
    > right turns are permitted on red.
    >
    > Data for this article was gathered from: Federal Highway Administration Pedestrian & Bicycle
    > Safety Research, www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pedbike/pedbike.htm Pedestrian and Bicycle Information
    > Center, bicyclinginfo.org/bc/perspective.htm
     
  16. My point in suggesting the problem was NOT with the cyclist is that there are parts (not all) of the
    car/bike interface problem that have nothing to do with the behavior of the cyclist, but rather are
    the result of the training, perception, and attitude of the car driver.

    By the way, I got knocked down a few years ago by a bike messenger riding the wrong way (up)
    Broadway in NYC. He didn't even hesitate or apologize - just jumped up got on his bike and took off.
    He fell off again when my briefcase hit him. I didn't apologize either. My point, however, is that I
    didn't say or mean that cyclists are not without fault. My point simply was that focusing ENTIRELY
    on cyclists won't solve the problem for the above stated reasons.

    "Seth Jayson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > > I absolutely agree that we need to stop stereotyping "soccer moms"
    >
    > I'm beginning to wonder about that one. On my commute this morning, the only three cars that cut
    > me off were moms with kids in tow...
    >
    > As for Bicyclist NOT being the problem, I find that to be BS. As a pedestrian, I routinely get run
    > off the road by bike messengers in chicago, and I see bicyclists cutting stop signs all the time.
    >
    > This article, which I paste from the March issue of bike traffic from www.biketraffic.org, has
    > some interesting information on Stopping.
    >
    > -------
    >
    > When I say stop, I mean stop! Jim Nugent, Park Forest
    >
    > What does it mean to stop? It's getting harder to tell nowadays. In 1979, psychologists studying
    > drivers' behavior at stop signs noted that 37% came to a full stop, 34% made a rolling stop, and
    > 29% didn't stop at all. In 1996 3% came to a full stop, another 3% made a rolling stop, while the
    > other 94% just kept on rolling.
    >
    > In a car-bike accident study researchers looked at 3000 crashes in six states and found that 40%
    > involved failure to yield the right of way at a sign or signal. Fault was about evenly divided
    > between the cyclists and the auto drivers. The U.S. Department of Transportation similarly reports
    > that 33% of bicycle deaths in 2001 occurred at intersections. Cutting car drivers more slack at
    > signed or signaled intersections just might make your bicycle experience less surgical.
    >
    > Cars that don't yield or stop at intersections are responsible for about 25% of car-bike
    > accidents. Even worse, in 60% of these cases police report the cyclist victim was going against
    > traffic on the wrong side of the street.
    >
    > A second 25% of car-bike accidents happen between intersections when cars and bikes are pulling
    > onto the highway. The law says that all vehicles must come to a stop before entering a roadway,
    > but it's becoming increasingly common to see cars scoot out of gas stations, fast food joints,
    > driveways, and parking lots at higher and higher speeds. About 2% of these mid-block accidents are
    > caused by cars backing out; 7% are cars driving out mid-block without stopping; and 13% are caused
    > by cyclists riding out of driveways without stopping. Of course, younger cyclists make up a good
    > percentage of that last category. Safety education anyone? Drivers who cut into street traffic
    > without stopping just don't have the time to see wrong-way cyclists or sidewalk users.
    >
    > Automobile drivers also like to roll around corners that allow right turns on red. What started
    > out with "stop, look, and then proceed with caution" has turned into "speed up and race around the
    > corner in order to beat some oncoming car." About 4% of car-bike accidents occur when cars make a
    > right turn on red. The blame isn't all on the auto drivers though, four out five bicyclists in
    > these collisions were riding on the wrong side of the road against traffic. In addition, half of
    > the cyclists hit were crossing in marked crosswalks.
    >
    > A few sensible safety steps can improve a cyclist's chance of survival on the streets. The data
    > suggest that riding in the streets with the flow of traffic lowers your risk of being hit by a
    > motor vehicle.Riding a bicycle properly can be safer than driving. Use extra care at intersections
    > and give cars an extra allowance of space just in case they run the signal or roll through the
    > stop sign. If cars won't stop, maybe cyclists should. And finally, maybe it's time for increased
    > education and enforcement of stops: at stop signs, as drivers enter roadways, and at lights where
    > right turns are permitted on red.
    >
    > Data for this article was gathered from: Federal Highway Administration Pedestrian & Bicycle
    > Safety Research, www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pedbike/pedbike.htm Pedestrian and Bicycle Information
    > Center, bicyclinginfo.org/bc/perspective.htm
     
  17. Geob

    Geob Guest

    > I carry a compressed air can with "boat horn" in a water bottle holder of my TE for just such
    > occasions.

    Excellent idea! I would need to rig a way to remotely honk it. Like a button or lever on my
    handlebars. I'd never get to it in time otherwise. Like another fella said, "Scream!". As a
    long-time motorcycle rider I have sure done that! I can scream louder than an aneamic old horn
    when inspired.

    I also think I should get some pepper spray. While I continue to view running away as a viable
    negotiating ploy, sometimes I am just not in the mood for it. Be nice to have the video of the
    interaction to help prevent wanton law suits.
     
  18. Brian Rost

    Brian Rost Guest

    Seth Jayson wrote:
    > This article, which I paste from the March issue of bike traffic from www.biketraffic.org, has
    > some interesting information on Stopping.

    Oh let's not confuse the issue with FACTS ;)

    --

    Brian Rost
    Stargen, Inc.

    **********************************************************************
     
  19. Jerry Rhodes

    Jerry Rhodes Guest

    >Like another fella said, "Scream!". As a long-time motorcycle rider I have sure done that! I can
    >scream louder than an aneamic old horn when inspired.

    Geo,

    That is called "CAO" (Clear Air Obscenity).

    As I was approaching a busy intersection, a lady started to pull right in front of me. I yelled
    STOP!!!! at the top of my lungs and the traffic in all directions SCREECHED to a halt as I went
    though the intersection.

    Jerry
     
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