More accounts on US torture :



limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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Another account of US torture - this time it's not in Iraq but in Quantanemo, Cuba.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...7/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/guantanamo_sex_vs_faith_7


Guantanamo Soldier Details Sexual Tactics

By PAISLEY DODDS, Associated Press Writer

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico - Female interrogators tried to break Muslim detainees at the U.S. prison camp in Guantanamo Bay by sexual touching, wearing a miniskirt and thong underwear and in one case smearing a Saudi man's face with fake menstrual blood, according to an insider's written account.

A draft manuscript obtained by The Associated Press is classified as secret pending a Pentagon (news - web sites) review for a planned book that details ways the U.S. military used women as part of tougher physical and psychological interrogation tactics to get terror suspects to talk.

It's the most revealing account so far of interrogations at the secretive detention camp, where officials say they have halted some controversial techniques.

"I have really struggled with this because the detainees, their families and much of the world will think this is a religious war based on some of the techniques used, even though it is not the case," the author, former Army Sgt. Erik R. Saar, 29, told AP.

Saar didn't provide the manuscript or approach AP, but confirmed the authenticity of nine draft pages AP obtained. He requested his hometown remain private so he wouldn't be harassed. Saar, who is neither Muslim nor of Arab descent, worked as an Arabic translator at the U.S. camp in eastern Cuba from December 2002 to June 2003. At the time, it was under the command of Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, who had a mandate to get better intelligence from prisoners, including alleged al-Qaida members caught in Afghanistan (news - web sites).

Saar said he witnessed about 20 interrogations and about three months after his arrival at the remote U.S. base he started noticing "disturbing" practices.

One female civilian contractor used a special outfit that included a miniskirt, thong underwear and a bra during late-night interrogations with prisoners, mostly Muslim men who consider it taboo to have close contact with women who aren't their wives.

Beginning in April 2003, "there hung a short skirt and thong underwear on the hook on the back of the door" of one interrogation team's office, he writes. "Later I learned that this outfit was used for interrogations by one of the female civilian contractors ... on a team which conducted interrogations in the middle of the night on Saudi men who were refusing to talk."

Some Guantanamo prisoners who have been released say they were tormented by "prostitutes."

In another case, Saar describes a female military interrogator questioning an uncooperative 21-year-old Saudi detainee who allegedly had taken flying lessons in Arizona before the Sept. 11 terror attacks. Suspected Sept. 11 hijacker Hani Hanjour received pilot instruction for three months in 1996 and in December 1997 at a flight school in Scottsdale, Ariz.

"His female interrogator decided that she needed to turn up the heat," Saar writes, saying she repeatedly asked the detainee who had sent him to Arizona, telling him he could "cooperate" or "have no hope whatsoever of ever leaving this place or talking to a lawyer.'"

The man closed his eyes and began to pray, Saar writes.

The female interrogator wanted to "break him," Saar adds, describing how she removed her uniform top to expose a tight-fitting T-shirt and began taunting the detainee, touching her breasts, rubbing them against the prisoner's back and commenting on his apparent erection.

The detainee looked up and spat in her face, the manuscript recounts.

The interrogator left the room to ask a Muslim linguist how she could break the prisoner's reliance on God. The linguist told her to tell the detainee that she was menstruating, touch him, then make sure to turn off the water in his cell so he couldn't wash.

Strict interpretation of Islamic law forbids physical contact with women other than a man's wife or family, and with any menstruating women, who are considered unclean.

"The concept was to make the detainee feel that after talking to her he was unclean and was unable to go before his God in prayer and gain strength," says the draft, stamped "Secret."

The interrogator used ink from a red pen to fool the detainee, Saar writes.

"She then started to place her hands in her pants as she walked behind the detainee," he says. "As she circled around him he could see that she was taking her hand out of her pants. When it became visible the detainee saw what appeared to be red blood on her hand. She said, 'Who sent you to Arizona?' He then glared at her with a piercing look of hatred.

"She then wiped the red ink on his face. He shouted at the top of his lungs, spat at her and lunged forward" — so fiercely that he broke loose from one ankle shackle.

"He began to cry like a baby," the draft says, noting the interrogator left saying, "Have a fun night in your cell without any water to clean yourself."

Events Saar describes resemble two previous reports of abusive female interrogation tactics, although it wasn't possible to independently verify his account.

In November, in response to an AP request, the military described an April 2003 incident in which a female interrogator took off her uniform top, exposed her brown T-shirt, ran her fingers through a detainee's hair and sat on his lap. That session was immediately ended by a supervisor and that interrogator received a written reprimand and additional training, the military said.

In another incident, the military reported that in early 2003 a different female interrogator "wiped dye from red magic marker on detainees' shirt after detainee spit (cq) on her," telling the detainee it was blood. She was verbally reprimanded, the military said.

Sexual tactics used by female interrogators have been criticized by the FBI (news - web sites), which complained in a letter obtained by AP last month that U.S. defense officials hadn't acted on complaints by FBI observers of "highly aggressive" interrogation techniques, including one in which a female interrogator grabbed a detainee's genitals.

About 20 percent of the guards at Guantanamo are women, said Lt. Col. James Marshall, a spokesman for U.S. Southern Command. He wouldn't say how many of the interrogators were female.

Marshall wouldn't address whether the U.S. military had a specific strategy to use women.

"U.S. forces treat all detainees and conduct all interrogations, wherever they may occur, humanely and consistent with U.S. legal obligations, and in particular with legal obligations prohibiting torture," Marshall said late Wednesday.

But some officials at the U.S. Southern Command have questioned the formation of an all-female team as one of Guantanamo's "Immediate Reaction Force" units that subdue troublesome male prisoners in their cells, according to a document classified as secret and obtained by AP.

In one incident, dated June 19, 2004, "The detainee appears to be genuinely traumatized by a female escort securing the detainee's leg irons," according to the document, a U.S. Southern Command summary of videotapes shot when the teams were used.

The summary warned that anyone outside Department of Defense (news - web sites) channels should be prepared to address allegations that women were used intentionally with Muslim men.

At Guantanamo, Saar said, "Interrogators were given a lot of latitude under Miller," the commander who went from the prison in Cuba to overseeing prisons in Iraq (news - web sites), where the Abu Ghraib scandal shocked the world with pictures revealing sexual humiliation of naked prisoners.

Several female troops have been charged in the Abu Ghraib scandal.

Saar said he volunteered to go to Guantanamo because "I really believed in the mission," but then he became disillusioned during his six months at the prison.

After leaving the Army with more than four years service, Saar worked as a contractor briefly for the FBI.

The Department of Defense has censored parts of his draft, mainly blacking out people's names, said Saar, who hired Washington attorney Mark S. Zaid to represent him. Saar needed permission to publish because he signed a disclosure statement before going to Guantanamo.

The book, which Saar titled "Inside the Wire," is due out this year with Penguin Press.

Guantanamo has about 545 prisoners from some 40 countries, many held more than three years without charge or access to lawyers and many suspected of links to al-Qaida or Afghanistan's ousted Taliban regime, which harbored the terrorist network
 

davidmc

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Jun 23, 2004
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Which is worse :confused: Let's see, given the choice between that & being on a jet flown into a building, which would i choose. Hmmmm :confused: You kill people & you must answer to your crime. That is if you are caught, of course.
 

zapper

Banned
Mar 11, 2004
2,495
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limerickman said:
Another account of US torture - this time it's not in Iraq but in Quantanemo, Cuba.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...7/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/guantanamo_sex_vs_faith_7


Guantanamo Soldier Details Sexual Tactics

By PAISLEY DODDS, Associated Press Writer

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico - Female interrogators tried to break Muslim detainees at the U.S. prison camp in Guantanamo Bay by sexual touching, wearing a miniskirt and thong underwear and in one case smearing a Saudi man's face with fake menstrual blood, according to an insider's written account.

A draft manuscript obtained by The Associated Press is classified as secret pending a Pentagon (news - web sites) review for a planned book that details ways the U.S. military used women as part of tougher physical and psychological interrogation tactics to get terror suspects to talk.

It's the most revealing account so far of interrogations at the secretive detention camp, where officials say they have halted some controversial techniques.

"I have really struggled with this because the detainees, their families and much of the world will think this is a religious war based on some of the techniques used, even though it is not the case," the author, former Army Sgt. Erik R. Saar, 29, told AP.

Saar didn't provide the manuscript or approach AP, but confirmed the authenticity of nine draft pages AP obtained. He requested his hometown remain private so he wouldn't be harassed. Saar, who is neither Muslim nor of Arab descent, worked as an Arabic translator at the U.S. camp in eastern Cuba from December 2002 to June 2003. At the time, it was under the command of Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, who had a mandate to get better intelligence from prisoners, including alleged al-Qaida members caught in Afghanistan (news - web sites).

Saar said he witnessed about 20 interrogations and about three months after his arrival at the remote U.S. base he started noticing "disturbing" practices.

One female civilian contractor used a special outfit that included a miniskirt, thong underwear and a bra during late-night interrogations with prisoners, mostly Muslim men who consider it taboo to have close contact with women who aren't their wives.

Beginning in April 2003, "there hung a short skirt and thong underwear on the hook on the back of the door" of one interrogation team's office, he writes. "Later I learned that this outfit was used for interrogations by one of the female civilian contractors ... on a team which conducted interrogations in the middle of the night on Saudi men who were refusing to talk."

Some Guantanamo prisoners who have been released say they were tormented by "prostitutes."

In another case, Saar describes a female military interrogator questioning an uncooperative 21-year-old Saudi detainee who allegedly had taken flying lessons in Arizona before the Sept. 11 terror attacks. Suspected Sept. 11 hijacker Hani Hanjour received pilot instruction for three months in 1996 and in December 1997 at a flight school in Scottsdale, Ariz.

"His female interrogator decided that she needed to turn up the heat," Saar writes, saying she repeatedly asked the detainee who had sent him to Arizona, telling him he could "cooperate" or "have no hope whatsoever of ever leaving this place or talking to a lawyer.'"

The man closed his eyes and began to pray, Saar writes.

The female interrogator wanted to "break him," Saar adds, describing how she removed her uniform top to expose a tight-fitting T-shirt and began taunting the detainee, touching her breasts, rubbing them against the prisoner's back and commenting on his apparent erection.

The detainee looked up and spat in her face, the manuscript recounts.

The interrogator left the room to ask a Muslim linguist how she could break the prisoner's reliance on God. The linguist told her to tell the detainee that she was menstruating, touch him, then make sure to turn off the water in his cell so he couldn't wash.

Strict interpretation of Islamic law forbids physical contact with women other than a man's wife or family, and with any menstruating women, who are considered unclean.

"The concept was to make the detainee feel that after talking to her he was unclean and was unable to go before his God in prayer and gain strength," says the draft, stamped "Secret."

The interrogator used ink from a red pen to fool the detainee, Saar writes.

"She then started to place her hands in her pants as she walked behind the detainee," he says. "As she circled around him he could see that she was taking her hand out of her pants. When it became visible the detainee saw what appeared to be red blood on her hand. She said, 'Who sent you to Arizona?' He then glared at her with a piercing look of hatred.

"She then wiped the red ink on his face. He shouted at the top of his lungs, spat at her and lunged forward" — so fiercely that he broke loose from one ankle shackle.

"He began to cry like a baby," the draft says, noting the interrogator left saying, "Have a fun night in your cell without any water to clean yourself."

Events Saar describes resemble two previous reports of abusive female interrogation tactics, although it wasn't possible to independently verify his account.

In November, in response to an AP request, the military described an April 2003 incident in which a female interrogator took off her uniform top, exposed her brown T-shirt, ran her fingers through a detainee's hair and sat on his lap. That session was immediately ended by a supervisor and that interrogator received a written reprimand and additional training, the military said.

In another incident, the military reported that in early 2003 a different female interrogator "wiped dye from red magic marker on detainees' shirt after detainee spit (cq) on her," telling the detainee it was blood. She was verbally reprimanded, the military said.

Sexual tactics used by female interrogators have been criticized by the FBI (news - web sites), which complained in a letter obtained by AP last month that U.S. defense officials hadn't acted on complaints by FBI observers of "highly aggressive" interrogation techniques, including one in which a female interrogator grabbed a detainee's genitals.

About 20 percent of the guards at Guantanamo are women, said Lt. Col. James Marshall, a spokesman for U.S. Southern Command. He wouldn't say how many of the interrogators were female.

Marshall wouldn't address whether the U.S. military had a specific strategy to use women.

"U.S. forces treat all detainees and conduct all interrogations, wherever they may occur, humanely and consistent with U.S. legal obligations, and in particular with legal obligations prohibiting torture," Marshall said late Wednesday.

But some officials at the U.S. Southern Command have questioned the formation of an all-female team as one of Guantanamo's "Immediate Reaction Force" units that subdue troublesome male prisoners in their cells, according to a document classified as secret and obtained by AP.

In one incident, dated June 19, 2004, "The detainee appears to be genuinely traumatized by a female escort securing the detainee's leg irons," according to the document, a U.S. Southern Command summary of videotapes shot when the teams were used.

The summary warned that anyone outside Department of Defense (news - web sites) channels should be prepared to address allegations that women were used intentionally with Muslim men.

At Guantanamo, Saar said, "Interrogators were given a lot of latitude under Miller," the commander who went from the prison in Cuba to overseeing prisons in Iraq (news - web sites), where the Abu Ghraib scandal shocked the world with pictures revealing sexual humiliation of naked prisoners.

Several female troops have been charged in the Abu Ghraib scandal.

Saar said he volunteered to go to Guantanamo because "I really believed in the mission," but then he became disillusioned during his six months at the prison.

After leaving the Army with more than four years service, Saar worked as a contractor briefly for the FBI.

The Department of Defense has censored parts of his draft, mainly blacking out people's names, said Saar, who hired Washington attorney Mark S. Zaid to represent him. Saar needed permission to publish because he signed a disclosure statement before going to Guantanamo.

The book, which Saar titled "Inside the Wire," is due out this year with Penguin Press.

Guantanamo has about 545 prisoners from some 40 countries, many held more than three years without charge or access to lawyers and many suspected of links to al-Qaida or Afghanistan's ousted Taliban regime, which harbored the terrorist network
If this is torture....SIGN ME UP!
 

jhuskey

Moderator
Oct 6, 2003
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zapper said:
If this is torture....SIGN ME UP!

It is "Taboo" for me to be with another woman other than my wife also. If I got caught with another woman what those prisoners went through would be like a day at a Spa.
If you don't believe me,ask her! There are worse things than death.
 

zapper

Banned
Mar 11, 2004
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jhuskey said:
It is "Taboo" for me to be with another woman other than my wife also. If I got caught with another woman what those prisoners went through would be like a day at a Spa.
If you don't believe me,ask her! There are worse thing than death.
Yeah, I know what you mean...Mrs. Zapper would react in the same manner...But, just kills me that lim is outraged at the "cruel" albeit "unusual" torture...Like I said, I'd rather endure that than be on the receiving end of a dull butter knife sawing my noggin off!s
 

limerickman

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2004
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zapper said:
Yeah, I know what you mean...Mrs. Zapper would react in the same manner...But, just kills me that lim is outraged at the "cruel" albeit "unusual" torture...Like I said, I'd rather endure that than be on the receiving end of a dull butter knife sawing my noggin off!s

Well, you don't have any understanding of Islamic culture.

Maybe, after you ask the in laws about what would be tantamount to torture in their culture, you might post it here ?

Parading, in public, their bank statements - would that be considered torture to their kind, huh ?
 

Carrera

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Feb 2, 2004
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Sorry I just can't resist this one!

All of this brings to mind my own unpleasant experiences when, 2 years ago, I was arrested in the U.S. for riding my bike without lights. I had actually been visiting my girlfriend who lives in L.A. and I recall how I was cycling down to the shopping centre when I heard a siren and the roar of a motor as a cop-car flagged me down.
2 female officers stepped out of the vehicle. I wondered what on earth I could have done to get pulled up.
"Is this your roadbike?", inquired one of the officers.
"Well, I'd hardly be riding it if it weren't", I responded.
"Don't get fresh!", the other female officer responded. "You don't have any lights on that bike and I must inform you you have broken article 23 of the California State Highway Code."
"But it's broad daylight!", I responded.
"Well, I'm sorry," replied one of the officers. "We're placing you under arrest."
Before I had chance to collect my wits, one of the women pushed me away from my bike while the other stuck some handcuffs on my wrists. I asked them to use the other pair of handcuffs to fasten my bike to a nearby railing so it wouldn't get pinched and was promptly driven over to the police station.
Now this is the part of the incident that left me in shock.
Both of these female officers escorted me to a small cell that was located in the police station. They ordered me to strip completely while they just stared in apparent amusement.
"I see you keep yourself in good shape with all this cycling," remarked one of the women with a vindictive smile.
"But you need to understand you're going to be taught a lesson for riding a bike without lights!", replied her colleague.
You can imagine how horrendous all of this was. I insisted they at least allow me to call a lawyer or even notify my girlfriend but the response was negative. I was simply informed that, as a U.K. citizen, I could be held up to 24 hours without direct access to a lawyer or any representation.
The something happened that left me in total shock. One of these American female officers started to peel off her uniform and stood right in front of me in bra and panties, truncheon in hand. The other female giggled in amusement and produced a large can of whipped-cream.
The officer who had stripped squirted some of the cream on various parts of her body.
"Now, lick it off!", she exclaimed.
Her companion tripped me up and sent me sprawling to the floor.
"Hey! This is ridiculous!", I shouted in disbelief. "What do you ladies think you're doing? Do you know who I am?"
"Don't care who you are, honey!", responded the lady officer. "Fact is you were riding a bike without lights and you're gonna pay for your transgression. Now lick the cream up and be a good boy!", she snapped. "We'll soon have you softened up!"
What choice did I have. I reckoned compliance was my only viable option but I recall how I thought to myself there could surely be nothing worse than the penalty that was being exacted.
To make matters worse, now the other female officer was stripping out of her uniform and, in no time at all, was down to her suspenders and pants.
Now I'll spare all you folks the details of what happened next as I don't want to risk being banned from the forum. But let me tell you it got pretty ugly in there and, soon as the female officers were done teaching me a lesson, as they eloquently put it, I was kind of left in limbo.
Of course, nobody would believe my story and anyone I ever told it to just giggled and remarked I should have counted myself lucky.
That was the last time I rode my bike in California and am still seeking therapy over the experience. I did try writing a formal letter to the gubernater of California but he just suggested I should maybe seek employment with Seymore Butts Movies L.T.D. and let him know of my ordeal.
The question is, how much compensation should I be entitled to as a result of the trauma I suffered at the hands of those women?
 

Weisse Luft

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May 28, 2004
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limerickman said:
Well, you don't have any understanding of Islamic culture.

Maybe, after you ask the in laws about what would be tantamount to torture in their culture, you might post it here ?

Parading, in public, their bank statements - would that be considered torture to their kind, huh ?

Oh please enlighten us, oh Slime rick man!
 

FredC

New Member
Oct 22, 2004
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Carrera said:
Sorry I just can't resist this one!

All of this brings to mind my own unpleasant experiences when, 2 years ago, I was arrested in the U.S. for riding my bike without lights. I had actually been visiting my girlfriend who lives in L.A. and I recall how I was cycling down to the shopping centre when I heard a siren and the roar of a motor as a cop-car flagged me down.
2 female officers stepped out of the vehicle. I wondered what on earth I could have done to get pulled up.
"Is this your roadbike?", inquired one of the officers.
"Well, I'd hardly be riding it if it weren't", I responded.
"Don't get fresh!", the other female officer responded. "You don't have any lights on that bike and I must inform you you have broken article 23 of the California State Highway Code."
"But it's broad daylight!", I responded.
"Well, I'm sorry," replied one of the officers. "We're placing you under arrest."
Before I had chance to collect my wits, one of the women pushed me away from my bike while the other stuck some handcuffs on my wrists. I asked them to use the other pair of handcuffs to fasten my bike to a nearby railing so it wouldn't get pinched and was promptly driven over to the police station.
Now this is the part of the incident that left me in shock.
Both of these female officers escorted me to a small cell that was located in the police station. They ordered me to strip completely while they just stared in apparent amusement.
"I see you keep yourself in good shape with all this cycling," remarked one of the women with a vindictive smile.
"But you need to understand you're going to be taught a lesson for riding a bike without lights!", replied her colleague.
You can imagine how horrendous all of this was. I insisted they at least allow me to call a lawyer or even notify my girlfriend but the response was negative. I was simply informed that, as a U.K. citizen, I could be held up to 24 hours without direct access to a lawyer or any representation.
The something happened that left me in total shock. One of these American female officers started to peel off her uniform and stood right in front of me in bra and panties, truncheon in hand. The other female giggled in amusement and produced a large can of whipped-cream.
The officer who had stripped squirted some of the cream on various parts of her body.
"Now, lick it off!", she exclaimed.
Her companion tripped me up and sent me sprawling to the floor.
"Hey! This is ridiculous!", I shouted in disbelief. "What do you ladies think you're doing? Do you know who I am?"
"Don't care who you are, honey!", responded the lady officer. "Fact is you were riding a bike without lights and you're gonna pay for your transgression. Now lick the cream up and be a good boy!", she snapped. "We'll soon have you softened up!"
What choice did I have. I reckoned compliance was my only viable option but I recall how I thought to myself there could surely be nothing worse than the penalty that was being exacted.
To make matters worse, now the other female officer was stripping out of her uniform and, in no time at all, was down to her suspenders and pants.
Now I'll spare all you folks the details of what happened next as I don't want to risk being banned from the forum. But let me tell you it got pretty ugly in there and, soon as the female officers were done teaching me a lesson, as they eloquently put it, I was kind of left in limbo.
Of course, nobody would believe my story and anyone I ever told it to just giggled and remarked I should have counted myself lucky.
That was the last time I rode my bike in California and am still seeking therapy over the experience. I did try writing a formal letter to the gubernater of California but he just suggested I should maybe seek employment with Seymore Butts Movies L.T.D. and let him know of my ordeal.
The question is, how much compensation should I be entitled to as a result of the trauma I suffered at the hands of those women?
Did they make you get a hard-on against your will. It could be determined that you were complicit in the event, whereby you should have cared more about the whereabouts of your bike in order to descend your tumescance. Obviously your batteries were low on power, as was your brain.
 

Ashley3

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Feb 10, 2004
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limerickman said:
Well, you don't have any understanding of Islamic culture.

QUOTE]

Yes, you must understand their culture. They would cut off one hand as an inducement to talk quickly before the second hand was lost too. And beheading is used as a last, but not infrequent, resort.
That would not be offensive,
Now, on the other hand, thong wearing would be deeply offensive.
That's simply the truth. It is a rich culture but often barbaric by Western standards.
Speaking of cultures, it's fortunate that "limerickman" is so utterly out of step with his own. The venom and bile that so consistently spews from his lips is commentary on the tolerance of his countrymen for the opinionated crackpot, rather than representative of any common Irish sentiment.
His bitterness, bigotry and hatred is remarkable.
 

limerickman

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2004
16,130
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Ashley3 said:
limerickman said:
Well, you don't have any understanding of Islamic culture.

QUOTE]

Yes, you must understand their culture. They would cut off one hand as an inducement to talk quickly before the second hand was lost too. And beheading is used as a last, but not infrequent, resort.
That would not be offensive,
Now, on the other hand, thong wearing would be deeply offensive.
That's simply the truth. It is a rich culture but often barbaric by Western standards.
Speaking of cultures, it's fortunate that "limerickman" is so utterly out of step with his own. The venom and bile that so consistently spews from his lips is commentary on the tolerance of his countrymen for the opinionated crackpot, rather than representative of any common Irish sentiment.
His bitterness, bigotry and hatred is remarkable.

We are an extremely tolerant race of people - and I too am extremely tolerant.

But like a lot of Irish people, we're totally opposed to the Bush goverment and the illegal invasion of Iraq and the detention of uncharged people in Quantanemo and the torture of same.
Is it the case that having these opinions makes one bigotted and racist ?

Ashley3 said:
limerickman said:
Well, you don't have any understanding of Islamic culture.

QUOTE]

Yes, you must understand their culture. They would cut off one hand as an inducement to talk quickly before the second hand was lost too. And beheading is used as a last, but not infrequent, resort.
That would not be offensive,

Very interesting that you bring up to issue of beheadings etc.

What say you about US capital punishment ?
 

MountainPro

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Aug 11, 2004
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limerickman said:
Very interesting that you bring up to issue of beheadings etc.

What say you about US capital punishment ?
i have seen the live beheadings on the TV of captives in Iraq. Two powerful strokes from a skilled swordsman. It is a quicker and less painful (and more merciful) death that being electrocuted for 30 seconds, US style.

After the initial hit the spinal cord and central nervous system is severed and death is instantaneous.
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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MountainPro said:
i have seen the live beheadings on the TV of captives in Iraq. Two powerful strokes from a skilled swordsman. It is a quicker and less painful (and more merciful) death that being electrocuted for 30 seconds, US style.

After the initial hit the spinal cord and central nervous system is severed and death is instantaneous.

I have read about US executions of prisoners and in some cases the prisoners have not died for up to 2 minutes.

The penalties applied is the old Judeo, "eye for an eyeism", of course.
 

MountainPro

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Aug 11, 2004
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limerickman said:
I have read about US executions of prisoners and in some cases the prisoners have not died for up to 2 minutes.

The penalties applied is the old Judeo, "eye for an eyeism", of course.
In the eighties there was one prisoner who was given the chair and fried for the standard time...his body was taken to the morgue where he regained conciousness after being left on a table for several minutes (this was after being inspected by a doctor and pronounced dead)...all his internal organs had turned to jelly by the high current...

can you imagine the pain as they quickly game him an injection to end his life...
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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MountainPro said:
In the eighties there was one prisoner who was given the chair and fried for the standard time...his body was taken to the morgue where he regained conciousness after being left on a table for several minutes (this was after being inspected by a doctor and pronounced dead)...all his internal organs had turned to jelly by the high current...

can you imagine the pain as they quickly game him an injection to end his life...

Doesn't bear thinking about - honestly.

I think it's barbaric that a so-called civilised society would execute anyone.
On a human level it's despicable.

But even on a legal level - suppose someone has been wrongly convicted and are sentanced to capital death (Guildford 4, Birmingham 6).
Innocent people - murdered by the State.
 

MountainPro

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Aug 11, 2004
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limerickman said:
Doesn't bear thinking about - honestly.

I think it's barbaric that a so-called civilised society would execute anyone.
On a human level it's despicable.

But even on a legal level - suppose someone has been wrongly convicted and are sentanced to capital death (Guildford 4, Birmingham 6).
Innocent people - murdered by the State.
i agree, who has the right to take the life of anyone else?

to be given a death sentence is the same as saying the the person cannot be rehabilitated and serves no purpose in society. How can they be so sure? Incarceration for the rest of thier life will be a greater punishment. After all if someone is executed by the state then WHO is really being punished? Not the dead man, he is dead, but his family, mother, father, children and friends who had no control over his/her crime in the first place.

No, execution in all its forms in barbaric no matter what country you live in. I am glad the UK abolished it years ago.
 

jhuskey

Moderator
Oct 6, 2003
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MountainPro said:
i agree, who has the right to take the life of anyone else?

to be given a death sentence is the same as saying the the person cannot be rehabilitated and serves no purpose in society. How can they be so sure? Incarceration for the rest of thier life will be a greater punishment. After all if someone is executed by the state then WHO is really being punished? Not the dead man, he is dead, but his family, mother, father, children and friends who had no control over his/her crime in the first place.

No, execution in all its forms in barbaric no matter what country you live in. I am glad the UK abolished it years ago.

I agree but also state that I believe a convicted individual should pay back society or the victim of the crime by working rather than continuing to be a burden on society.
Some believe this to be cruel and unusual punishment and only want convicts to be set apart from society and sit in a cell taking up space and continuing to be a drain on taxpayers.
If you work for something and it is taken from you as punishment, I believe you fell a much more realistic view of the system as it is intended to operate .
Then again I do not have a criminal mind and really do not know for sure if I am right.
But they should be required to work.
 

davidmc

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Jun 23, 2004
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limerickman said:
Doesn't bear thinking about - honestly.

I think it's barbaric that a so-called civilised society would execute anyone.
On a human level it's despicable.

But even on a legal level - suppose someone has been wrongly convicted and are sentanced to capital death (Guildford 4, Birmingham 6).
Innocent people - murdered by the State.
When George W. was guvner' of Texico (texas), he led the nation in sending people "to meet Jesus" :) . He subscribes to the "eye for an eye" judeo/christian" belief you referred to.
 

davidmc

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Jun 23, 2004
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I, and other's, contend that these individuals are illegal combatants. They are not an army of a nation. They reside inside no borders. Simply put, they are cheater's when it comes to warfare-illegal combatants. And being thus, are not entitled to treatment as outlined in the Geneva convention. They are a criminal element. They do not wear uniforms as our soldiers do. They base their existence on the belief that this is only a stepping stone to reaching heaven & recieving-what?-22 virgins as a reward for blowing themselves up in a marketplace filled w/ women & children :confused: . All the while disenfranchising their women & living by sharia. They still bull-whip their citizens in the town square for petty offenses & chop off limbs for same. They're living in the stone-age. I say "feck em' :mad:
 

limerickman

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2004
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davidmc said:
When George W. was guvner' of Texico (texas), he led the nation in sending people "to meet Jesus" :) . He subscribes to the "eye for an eye" judeo/christian" belief you referred to.

Dave - that's exactly who I had in mind when I posted that message.
That great Christian : Bush.
 

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