I guess I should begin by stating I have no particular axe to grind against Moslems. I am not in any way racist. Basically I take people as I find them regardless of their particular nationality. I personally wouldn't have a problem dating either a black, Moslem or Jewish woman.
However, I do have strong objections to the present policy of mass immigration from Middle Eastern countries and the establishment of more and more mosques throughout the country. I also object to the current line of propaganda that anyone who doesn't support such policy is racist.
Finally it would seem Michael Howard had the courage to state something I had been emphasising for the last decade and now Kilroy Silk has entered the debate as well.
So far as I'm concerned, anyone who comes to live in Europe (be they Jewish, Moslem or African) are quite welcome (especially tsunami victims and refugees). I believe they should enjoy freedom to practise any particular reliigious beliefs they adhere to. But the current influx of Moslems shouldn't be encouraged to impose different value systems on our democratic societies.
It is quite evident that none of this tolerance has been sufficiently pleasing to leftist politicians and liberals. We are now being told what we can or can not say in a so-called free society or being labelled as racist at the drop of a hat. For example, we are told that the Red Cross (as a symbol of a respected charity organization) is offensive to Middle Eastern immigrants and should be banned as a result. In my own particular region, people have actually been stopped by the police and ordered to take down national flags, as this also is offensive to immigrant communities. By the same token, it would seem that Christmas is also supposed to be offensive and may be changed to a more accommodating "Wintermass".
So, the fact is immigration on the scale it's taking place is altering our system of values and undermining basic liberties.
And with respect to your observation as to the number of mosques in Ireland, I can tell you that in this particular region they outnumber churches significantly and far more funding is being made available to establish many more. If mosques soon come to outnumber traditional Catholic churches in Ireland then I think this is unfortunate as you will be losing much of your Irish heritage to accomodate different cultural values.
If many millions of moslems already inhabit vast territories in the Middle East, why would you desire the promotion of Islamic values in your native Ireland (which is a fairly small country by comparison)?
What happened in Holland is quite significant. At some point or other the Dutch realised their own particular Dutch culture was being smothered by mass immigration and their traditional, liberal values were also coming under increasing attack. Islamic clerics condemned homosexuals and lesbians within Holland, became inflamed at the thought that the Dutch press should criticize Islam and went so far as to make threats against Dutch politicians, while one particular liberal Dutch politician winded up being assassinated.
As a result, the Dutch decided enough was enough and elected a fairly right-wing government that was determined to protect traditional Dutch values and alter the former hyper-liberal immigration policy. The idea behind this was that if future immigrants (mainly from the Middle East) genuinely wished to live in a free, democratic, European country they should accept Dutch values, learn the Dutch language and accept the culture and country they had aspired to live in.
Personally I think the Dutch may have taken some of this a bit too far but I certainly agree that there had to be some kind of a clamp down on the situation as it was developing in Holland. And I think the U.K. government is making a big mistake by financing so many mosques and Islamic faith schools that cities such as Birmingham are slowly coming to resemble a foreign capital.
As for your point that there are quite a few Jews in political circles, I guess it's a valid one. I do know Michael Howard is Jewish but think it's kind of sad he should be unpopular in this country simply on account of his being Jewish. If that's the case then something is seriously wrong in this country since Jewish politicians can hardly be blamed for Blair's personal decision to lie to the public over Iraq. I also think that Campbell is a hypocrite for designing anti-Jewish election propaganda against Howard, when he himself (Campbell, as reported by the Mail) lambasted the BBC for adopting an anti-war stance. It was also Campbell who came up with the whole 45 minute WMD claim, again reported by Andrew Gilligan at the time.
My only beef with Howard is I think he was 100 per cent wrong to endorse the Iraq war.
However the case may be, whether we disagree over the issue of Jews and Moslems or not, my principal point is that Kilroy Silk's political position that traditional European values are being undermined isn't quite so extreme as it sounds. The Daily Mail has been pointing this out for decades and celebrities such as Prince Charles, Paul Mcartney and Toyah Wilcox would, more likely than not, agree with that view.
limerickman said:
Let's take a straw pole.
The number of British MP's who are Muslims - do you know ?
According to the Economist magazine, there are 98 MP's, out of 600 odd.
That's what between 15-20% of the total number of MP's.
I don't have a percentage of jewish politicians - but would there be 10 ?
20 ? perhaps.
Let's look at British sporting life.
Hameed, Khan : boxers.
Cricketers : look at the number of counties who have Muslims playing.
Look at commercial life in Britain : the Sunday Times Rich List, for example, has many Muslims in it.
The fact is that Muslims have integrated well in to British life.
Even over here, there are now three Mosques alone in Dublin, in Dublin 20 years ago, they had one tiny Mosque (that's in a city of 1.1m people).
On the other hand the Jews in Dublin had two synagogues and have recently sold one, because their population is dwindling here.
You highlight France, the Christian Churches were also unhappy at the banning of the Crucifix in classrooms.
I have always said that people should accept the society in to which they've moved.