More Farcilities



D

Dave Larrington

Guest
In news:[email protected],
nickd <[email protected]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:
> "Alistair Gunn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> I saw this wonderful creation this morning and just had to take a
>> photo of it. http://www.spod.org/~allyg/farcility-0001.jpg They've
>> just spent quite a bit of time (and presumably therefore, money)
>> remodelling that junction and I'm at a loss to explain quite what
>> they where trying to achieve?

>
> They were trying to spend some money, and succeeded. Presumably they
> need to spend their budget to justify it etc.


I think they've done the same thing here in Harlow. They've just resurfaced
a mile and a half or so of the shared-use path alongside the A414. Not only
is there a "Cyclists Dismount" sign at every road junction and building
entrance road, but there's one at every point where there's a dropped kerb
'twixt path and road. And one by every bus stop. Actually there's two at
all these points as the path is bi-directional.

I have not the words.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Three blind mice, see how they run. Is this /really/ the best
way to test shampoo?
 
P

Paul Boyd

Guest
Alistair Gunn said the following on 28/06/2007 13:25:
> I saw this wonderful creation this morning and just had to take a photo
> of it. http://www.spod.org/~allyg/farcility-0001.jpg They've just spent
> quite a bit of time (and presumably therefore, money) remodelling that
> junction and I'm at a loss to explain quite what they where trying to
> achieve?


What they've achieved is a tick in a box that says "Cycle facilities
provided". What it needs is an independent body such as the CTC to
decide if a cycling facility has been provided!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/
 
M

Marc Brett

Guest
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:25:31 +0000 (UTC), Alistair Gunn
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I saw this wonderful creation this morning and just had to take a photo
>of it. http://www.spod.org/~allyg/farcility-0001.jpg They've just spent
>quite a bit of time (and presumably therefore, money) remodelling that
>junction and I'm at a loss to explain quite what they where trying to
>achieve?


What's to the right of the picture? It looks to me like a way to enter
a bike path on the right. More white paint and a bike-in-a-triangle
might have made this more clear to motorists.

Or mebbe I'm talking bollox. Again.
 
M

Mark

Guest
> I saw this wonderful creation this morning and just had to take a photo
> of it. http://www.spod.org/~allyg/farcility-0001.jpg They've just spent
> quite a bit of time (and presumably therefore, money) remodelling that
> junction and I'm at a loss to explain quite what they where trying to
> achieve?


Is there a cycle path off the right hand side of the photo? The path in
the picture could be for cyclists who want to use that, and gives them
somewhere off the road where they can wait until it's safe to cross.
 
P

Peter Clinch

Guest
Mark wrote:

> Is there a cycle path off the right hand side of the photo? The path in
> the picture could be for cyclists who want to use that, and gives them
> somewhere off the road where they can wait until it's safe to cross.


Looks that way to me, crossing through the gap in the red area in the
middle of the road.

You wouldn't catch me doing that, mind: much easier to just turn right
and leave a bit more prematurely than the end of the road, especially
since you must be capable of dealing with /roads/ if you're on the
farcility-free stretch prior to the junction.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
D

David Hansen

Guest
On 28 Jun 2007 14:50:24 GMT someone who may be Mark
<[email protected]*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid>
wrote this:-

>> I saw this wonderful creation this morning and just had to take a photo
>> of it. http://www.spod.org/~allyg/farcility-0001.jpg They've just spent
>> quite a bit of time (and presumably therefore, money) remodelling that
>> junction and I'm at a loss to explain quite what they where trying to
>> achieve?

>
>Is there a cycle path off the right hand side of the photo? The path in
>the picture could be for cyclists who want to use that, and gives them
>somewhere off the road where they can wait until it's safe to cross.


Is the road builders term for this sort of thing something like "jug
handle"?


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
 
A

Arthur Clune

Guest
Alistair Gunn wrote:
> I saw this wonderful creation this morning and just had to take a photo
> of it. http://www.spod.org/~allyg/farcility-0001.jpg They've just spent



Where is this? Is it in the area of York City Council itself or in
North Yorks? The city council is generally better than this.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera
 
A

Alistair Gunn

Guest
Paul Boyd twisted the electrons to say:
> Alistair Gunn said the following on 28/06/2007 13:25:
> > I saw this wonderful creation this morning and just had to take a photo
> > of it. http://www.spod.org/~allyg/farcility-0001.jpg They've just spent
> > quite a bit of time (and presumably therefore, money) remodelling that
> > junction and I'm at a loss to explain quite what they where trying to
> > achieve?

> What they've achieved is a tick in a box that says "Cycle facilities
> provided". What it needs is an independent body such as the CTC to
> decide if a cycling facility has been provided!


Having discussed this with a few people in other fora, our current best
guess is that it's too enable people to turn right onto the cyclelane
that's out of shot to the right. Said cyclelane continues for a short
distance (say 20 metres) and then requires you to cross the road that's
in front of you in the shot ...

Perhaps I should've mentioned this is on a Sustrans route?
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 
A

Alistair Gunn

Guest
Arthur Clune twisted the electrons to say:
> Alistair Gunn wrote:
> > I saw this wonderful creation this morning and just had to take a photo
> > of it. http://www.spod.org/~allyg/farcility-0001.jpg They've just spent

> Where is this? Is it in the area of York City Council itself or in
> North Yorks? The city council is generally better than this.


It's at the junction of Murton Lane and the York-Bridlington Road (A166).
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 
S

Simon Brooke

Guest
in message <[email protected]>, Alistair Gunn
('[email protected]') wrote:

> I saw this wonderful creation this morning and just had to take a photo
> of it. http://www.spod.org/~allyg/farcility-0001.jpg They've just spent
> quite a bit of time (and presumably therefore, money) remodelling that
> junction and I'm at a loss to explain quite what they where trying to
> achieve?


There is, presumably. a suicide lane along the near side of the road that
crosses the junction. The loop is to allow cyclists to turn right, before
the main junction, into the suicide lane, so that they can more
conveniently be killed.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
.::;===r==\
/ /___||___\____
//==\- ||- | /__\( MS Windows IS an operating environment.
//____\__||___|_// \|: C++ IS an object oriented programming language.
\__/ ~~~~~~~~~ \__/ Citroen 2cv6 IS a four door family saloon.
 
D

Daniel Barlow

Guest
David Hansen wrote:
> Is the road builders term for this sort of thing something like "jug
> handle"?


That's certainly one possible name for whoever came up with it, yes


-dan
 
D

Dave Larrington

Guest
I wrote:


> Not only is there a "Cyclists Dismount" sign at every road
> junction and building entrance road, but there's one at every point
> where there's a dropped kerb 'twixt path and road. And one by every
> bus stop. Actually there's two at all these points as the path is
> bi-directional.


I tried to count them last night but got confused when I reached
forty-eight. So in a mile and a half a cyclist using the path in accordance
with the intentions of the spanner who designed would have to get off and
walk at least twenty-four times in a mile and a half.

And motons wonder why cyclists prefer to use the roads.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
A complimentary biro(tm) is /not/ to be sniffed at.
 
D

dkahn400

Guest
On Jun 29, 8:13 am, "Dave Larrington" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> I tried to count them last night but got confused when I reached
> forty-eight. So in a mile and a half a cyclist using the path in accordance
> with the intentions of the spanner who designed would have to get off and
> walk at least twenty-four times in a mile and a half.
>
> And motons wonder why cyclists prefer to use the roads.


Be interesting to time yourself through the section, once on the road
and once on the farcility, obeying all the signs. You might need to
set out half an hour earlier of course.

There's a cyclists dismount sign on a bridge beteen Hounslow and
Whitton. I timed myself at 25 seconds using the road and something
like five minutes following the footpath and remounting at the
designated point, following a service road and recrossing at a zebra.

--
Dave...
 
D

Danny Colyer

Guest
dkahn400 wrote:
> Be interesting to time yourself through the section, once on the road
> and once on the farcility, obeying all the signs. You might need to
> set out half an hour earlier of course.
>
> There's a cyclists dismount sign on a bridge beteen Hounslow and
> Whitton. I timed myself at 25 seconds using the road and something
> like five minutes following the footpath and remounting at the
> designated point, following a service road and recrossing at a zebra.


Riding home at the end of Bristol's Biggest Bike Ride on Sunday, there
was a section of a few hundred yards where DW and my mum chose to use
the shared-use pavement and accompanying toucan crossings while I chose
to stay on the road. We agreed to meet at Valentines Bridge.

Having reached the bridge and negotiated the barriers[1] with bike and
trailer, I then sat and waited for 3 minutes before my riding companions
came into sight.

[1] <http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/cycling/farce/021118val03.jpg>

--
Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down.
Daddy, why did you put that down?" - Charlie Colyer, age 2
 
A

Adrian Godwin

Guest
Dave Larrington <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I tried to count them last night but got confused when I reached
> forty-eight. So in a mile and a half a cyclist using the path in accordance
> with the intentions of the spanner who designed would have to get off and
> walk at least twenty-four times in a mile and a half.
>


I'm confused by the intention of these signs. They're blue rectangles,
which makes them information rather than instruction or warning, right ?

So they can't be instructing cyclists to dismount, or warning other
road users that cyclists stopping to dismount might cause a hazard.
By the logic of the highway code and the limited text on the signs
themselves, they appear to be informing the world at large that
cyclists do in fact, sometimes dismount their cycles in this area
(but they don't have to and aren't a hazard).

Why this unsurprising fact needs to be mentioned twenty four times in a
mile and a half isn't immediately obvious.
 
T

Tony Raven

Guest
Adrian Godwin wrote on 30/06/2007 09:31 +0100:
> Dave Larrington <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I tried to count them last night but got confused when I reached
>> forty-eight. So in a mile and a half a cyclist using the path in accordance
>> with the intentions of the spanner who designed would have to get off and
>> walk at least twenty-four times in a mile and a half.
>>

>
> I'm confused by the intention of these signs. They're blue rectangles,
> which makes them information rather than instruction or warning, right ?
>
> So they can't be instructing cyclists to dismount, or warning other
> road users that cyclists stopping to dismount might cause a hazard.
> By the logic of the highway code and the limited text on the signs
> themselves, they appear to be informing the world at large that
> cyclists do in fact, sometimes dismount their cycles in this area
> (but they don't have to and aren't a hazard).
>


Indeed, I take it as a statement of fact and since I am not aware of any
cyclist that stays on their bike for life, all cyclists must dismount at
some point in time. I expect them to be joined over time by a wide
range of other public informational signs such as "The Pope is a
Catholic" and "Ducks swim"

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell
 
M

Marcus Red

Guest
Danny Colyer wrote:

[re Bristol-Bath cycle path]

> to stay on the road. We agreed to meet at Valentines Bridge.
>
> Having reached the bridge and negotiated the barriers[1] with bike and
> trailer, I then sat and waited for 3 minutes before my riding companions
> came into sight.
>
> [1] <http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/cycling/farce/021118val03.jpg>
>


I thought they were illegally installed and were supposed to be removed
a few years back?

A friend and I did Bath (Royal Oak, left at 7:15) to BTM (arrived 8:20)
in 1hr 05min yesterday, as our train was due to leave at 8:24. It was
half an hour late!
 
D

Danny Colyer

Guest
On 30/06/2007 10:17, Marcus Red wrote:
> Danny Colyer wrote:
>>[1] <http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/cycling/farce/021118val03.jpg>

>
> I thought they were illegally installed and were supposed to be removed
> a few years back?


You thought right. My understanding is that planning permission for
construction of the bridge (which is privately owned) was given on the
basis that it had to form part of a cycle route. The owners then
decided they didn't want cyclists using it, so they installed the
barriers and erected signs advising cyclists to dismount. The barriers
were installed without planning permission, despite the owners having
been told by the council that planning permission would be required.
The council served an enforcement notice a couple of years ago, but have
failed to enforce it.

If it was South Gloucestershire Council I'd be fighting hard to have
them removed. As it's Bristol City Council, and as I only go that way
once or twice a year, I haven't bothered.

It's not actually on the Bath-Bristol cyclepath, but as it's on one of
the main routes from the path to the centre of Bristol I think I might
raise the issue at the next railway path users meeting, particularly
given that the meetings are chaired by Bristol's cycling officer.

--
Danny Colyer <URL:http://www.colyer.plus.com/danny/>
Reply address is valid, but that on my website is checked more often
"Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down. Daddy, put that down.
Daddy, why did you put that down?" - Charlie Colyer, age 2
 
N

naked_draughtsman

Guest
> >> I saw this wonderful creation this morning and just had to take a photo
> >> of it. http://www.spod.org/~allyg/farcility-0001.jpg They've just spent
> >> quite a bit of time (and presumably therefore, money) remodelling that
> >> junction and I'm at a loss to explain quite what they where trying to
> >> achieve?

>
> >Is there a cycle path off the right hand side of the photo? The path in
> >the picture could be for cyclists who want to use that, and gives them
> >somewhere off the road where they can wait until it's safe to cross.

>
> Is the road builders term for this sort of thing something like "jug
> handle"?


I don't know about a name but apparently government guidelines require
them where a cycle lane goes right off the road and cyclists would
have to turn across traffic. That was the reason Conwy county gave
after locals made a bit fuss about one and asked (via local newspaper)
how much money it cost.

pete
 
I

Ian Smith

Guest
On Sat, 30 Jun, Adrian Godwin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I'm confused by the intention of these signs. They're blue
> rectangles, which makes them information rather than instruction or
> warning, right ?


Not exclusively. There are blue rectangular signs that indicate
things that are mandatory - one-way traffic arrows, for example.
However, as it happens, there is no traffic order that can mandate
cyclists dismount, so they are informational - someone thinks that it
would be a good idea for cyclists to dismount somewhere in the
vicinity of the sign.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
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