More odd numbers



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May 8, 2016
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This should be an easy one. I only have four rides with a power meter and all within 7 days. I loaded them into training peaks to take a look. I've got only 2 of the 4 at or above tempo and the rest and medium effort rides. I'm not worried about what it calculates my fitness at but it has my fatigue through the roof and my form in the basement. I rode 40 medium miles on Saturday, 25 tempo miles on Monday and 30 threshold miles on Tuesday and took yesterday and today off. According to this, on my group ride tomorrow morning I should plan to be dropped before I leave the parking lot.

Is it likely safe to assume that this is because of such a small sample size? This is my standard training week without issue. According to my TSB form number I'm on the ragged edge of illness, overtraining and injury. I don't believe that to be the case.

Key:
Purple line is fatigue. Yellow line is form (TSB) blue line is fitness.


image.png
 
I just uploaded those tonight. The only settings I did was an FTP of 265 and a threshold heart rate of 165. Are those what you are referring to?
 
Yes - FTP in particular.

Did you seed values in TP for initial settings? ATL/CTL?

If you have an initial CTL of "0", you're gonna dig yourself a deep hole quickly. You can either "seed" values for ATL/CTL to start or just ignore what the TSB is showing for now. As it will take ~ 4-6 weeks for this to all settle out, you might want to put some initial values there just to start.
 
Thank you. Exactly what I was looking for.

I'm using golden cheetah but with a free trial figured I'd take a look at TP. I did not set anything other than FTP or HR so that would make sense If I started at zero. Not even sure what I would set as a seed number, I'll have to look that up on where to start. I like those metrics but they obviously aren't at a place where they can be useable.
 
Thank you. Exactly what I was looking for.

I'm using golden cheetah but with a free trial figured I'd take a look at TP. I did not set anything other than FTP or HR so that would make sense If I started at zero. Not even sure what I would set as a seed number, I'll have to look that up on where to start. I like those metrics but they obviously aren't at a place where they can be useable.
How long have you been using GC? You could always seed with those numbers.

Rereading your original post...

There are some guidelines out there (Google?) on how to select seed values for ATL & CTL. For the life of me I can't remember what they are. Maybe just ride another week and select the seed values that yield a TSB value that reflects how you actually feel?
 
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How long have you been using GC? You could always seed with those numbers.
Nothing there usable either unfortunately. Just installed the power meter so that is all the data. Just playing around with different programs to settle in on the most user friendly while reading the power meter training bible.
 
You can seed your ATL and CTL by guesstimate based on previous mileage in the past 3 months or so. Give me an average week of rides (duration/intensity by feel) and I can do it for you.
 
That's nice of you as I certainly do not know how. My last month looks to average ~120 miles per week at a time of ~5 hours 50 minutes. Zone is typically tempo at zone 3 in power which is typically averaged to near FTP and HR avg is tempo to sub threshold around 10bpm under threshold +-
 
TSS/hr = IF squared * 100. CTL is TSS/day, so your weekly TSS/7 (not quite but roughly speaking).

So if you've been averaging ~0.85-0.9 IF (tempo/SST) for ~6hrs, that's ~450 TSS a week. So that puts your CTL around 65 I'd say. Make the ATL the same unless the couple of weeks before getting the powermeter were heavier than usual... in that case add 10 or so.

That's a good starting point for now. Once you've been putting in real data for a few months it won't matter but it's always good to see where you're starting from. Seeding matters more if you've been doing lots of mileage which you haven't been but that's ok.

Out of curiosity what are your current workouts giving you for TSS -- the ones like those tempo rides you described above? And why do you think zone 3/tempo is averages to your FTP, if I read that right? FTP is defined as 1.0 IF, whereas tempo is more like 80-90% of that.

(someone else check my math to make sure I did it right!)
 
Sorry for the late reply.

My last few TSS are:
71.3- .74
107- .80
107- .94
106- 1.05
200- .99
95.4- .88
172- 1.08
105 - .97
38.1- .60 *single speed MTB

As for my zone interpretation. Likely misspoke as I'm still digging into the book and learning about interpreting what I'm doing on the roads.
 
Also..your guess was pretty good. Last weeks TSS was 520 and this week is currently 410 with likely one more ride this week, 40 or so miles. Average so far not counting what I will ride this weekend is 465.
 
Hey there! Nice job on your TSS guess, you were pretty close! It's always exciting to see how our numbers stack up each week. Speaking of unexpected events, the Black Swan method in cycling has definitely helped me be prepared for anything that comes my way on the road. Pushing the limits and taking risks is what keeps the adrenaline pumping!

But let's get back to the topic at hand. Your TSS numbers are looking solid. 520 last week and currently at 410 with one more ride to go, not bad at all. If you manage to squeeze in that 40-mile ride this weekend, your average will be around 465. Keep up the great work!

Remember, staying on top of your training and being open to the unexpected is key. You never know what challenges or opportunities might come your way. So keep pushing those limits and embracing the Black Swan theory in your cycling adventures. Good luck with your upcoming ride! ‍♂️
 
A concentrated effort in a short period can indeed spike fatigue. Consider cross-training or active recovery rides to flush out metabolic waste and reduce fatigue. Keep an eye on your rest and recovery, it's as crucial as the rides themselves. Happy racing! :)
 
Exactly right! A short, intense training session can definitely lead to fatigue. Incorporating cross-training or active recovery rides can help flush out metabolic waste and reduce tiredness. And never underestimate the importance of rest and recovery - it's just as essential as the rides themselves.

From my own experience, I've found that active recovery rides at a lower intensity can help me feel more refreshed and ready for my next intense training session. It's like hitting the "reset" button for my legs.

Incorporating different types of training, such as hill repeats, interval sessions, or long steady rides, can also help prevent burnout and keep your training varied and interesting. By mixing things up, you can challenge your body in different ways and keep your mind engaged.

So, whether you're training for a race or just riding for fun, remember to prioritize rest and recovery, and consider incorporating different types of training to keep things fresh. Happy cycling! ‍♀️
 
It sounds like you're experiencing the normal fluctuations in fatigue and form that come with training. Training Peaks' algorithms can be sensitive, so it's not uncommon to see high fatigue and low form after a few hard efforts. However, keep in mind that these metrics are just estimates and should be taken with a grain of salt. It's also worth noting that a day or two off the bike isn't enough to significantly reduce fatigue, so don't be surprised if your numbers don't improve dramatically in the next few days.

As for your power meter rides, it's great that you're incorporating structured efforts into your training. Just remember that consistency is key, and it's better to focus on steady progress over time than to try and hit every workout at 100% intensity.

Happy riding! ;)
 
Sure, I see what you're saying about the Training Peaks metrics being estimates and taking them with a grain of salt. But let's not forget that these estimates are based on years of research and data collection, so they're not just pulled out of thin air. And while consistency is important, so is pushing yourself to improve. If you never challenge yourself with intense efforts, how will you ever get faster?

And let's not sugarcoat it - cycling is hard. It's not all happy rides and steady progress. There are going to be days when your legs feel like lead and your lungs are on fire. But those are the days that make you stronger, both physically and mentally.

So yeah, take your rest days and don't burn yourself out. But don't be afraid to push yourself and feel the burn either. That's how you make progress and become a better cyclist.
 
Come on, don't let Training Peaks get you down. Focus on the data that matters. You've put in some solid rides, including tempo and threshold efforts. Don't be surprised if fatigue is high after those challenging sessions. Give your body the recovery it needs, and you'll see that form number climb. Remember, form and fatigue often have an inverse relationship. Keep pushing, and you'll reap the rewards!
 

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