More on tubeless

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by cyclintom, Aug 27, 2018.

  1. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    On the ride yesterday we were riding fairly early in the morning and there were a lot of shaded areas under the trees.

    I felt a 'Bump, Bump, Bump, Bump' and I reached down and brushed the front tire with my gloved hand. I felt something pretty big pull out of the tire. Then I felt some wetness on my shins. I stopped and looked and there was a spot about the size of a teaspoon of the Orange sealant on the top but it had already sealed the hole. The hole must have been the size of a nail. And pinching the tires I couldn't tell any difference in the pressure fore and aft. So I just continued riding.

    I can't tell you how disappointed I was not to have to stop in the middle of the road in a spot where there wasn't any shoulder, remove the wheel, remove the tire and tube, either patch the tube or install a spare I carry, put the tire and tube back on, pump it up 200 strokes with a mini-pump. Then do the whole thing over again because on installation you pinched the tube. Then do it all over again because you didn't find the wire from someone's steel belted radial worn down to the belt. By this time you don't have any more patience and use the CO2 cartridge filler and the tube explodes. Think of all the enjoyment of repairing a flat. This sounds exaggerated? On our group ride on Saturday that exact thing happened to a man's wife and before he got it all done she was ready to walk home.

    I told this to a friend who doesn't want to change to tubeless and he said - "think of how nasty it is going to be to take the tire off and slop up all that goo and put a patch on the tire." Well, you don't patch it since the sealant is the same stuff the tire is made out of.

    It is possible to poke a hole in a tubeless that would be too large for the sealant to seal. In that case you can carry a tool that can implant a rubber plug just as they do with car tires. But in 40 years of riding I've never had a puncture that big in a tube tire so why would I worry about it in a tubeless?
     
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  2. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Never had any of that happen in 46 years of cycling with either a sew-up or a clincher.
     
  3. Corzhens

    Corzhens Well-Known Member

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    I have heard of the can of sealant that you can fill your tire with so that it can protect the tube from pinches and punctures. In other words, it is a prevention for going flat. But that's for the car tires and probably it can also work on the bike tires although I guess it is very expensive.
     
  4. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    The new tubeless sealants are improved over the older stuff, which had a limited service life. It's not expensive. You just require a tubeless ready rim and a tubeless valve stem, the correct tires and some sealant. Sealant, itself is not expensive. Sealant injectors are also inexpensive.

    Despite what some people state, you can go read about tubeless tires going flat all over the web. Although they tend to leak down more slowly than conventional tire/tube rigs if they fail to seal, this also is not a hard and fast rule. Nasty sidewall cuts and larger stone or sharp object punctures in the tread of any tire is going to have you stuffing a boot and tube into it for the remainder of the ride. Perhaps a little messy, but with half a brain you'll be on your way in 15 minutes.

    Tubeless tires can be tougher to get on/off a rim and there is the mess of dealing with the sealant, a minor inconvenience if prepared and used to dealing with it and certainly no worse than handling tubular tire glue.

    There are advantages and disadvantages to all three of the most popular tire systems. Tubeless systems can reduce mass, improve traction and handling and if nothing else, eliminate pinch flats...something I haven't suffered in a long, long time.
     
  5. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    I don't see any advantages to a tubular system unless you're a track racer. Wooden tracks in particular are so smooth that high pressure tubulars are probably the way to go. But they are a REAL bear to repair if you get a flat and they are very thin walled for the lowest possible rolling resistance so they wear very rapidly.
     
  6. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    "I don't see any advantages to a tubular system unless you're a track racer."

    Of course you don't. That's not surprising in the least. Maybe you might ask the 200+ pro road racers that ride the Tour, Giro and Vuelta. On tubulars. For reasons any 12-year old can Google.

    "But they are a REAL bear to repair if you get a flat and they are very thin walled for the lowest possible rolling resistance so they wear very rapidly." Road change outs are the fastest of all the popular tire types and patching a sew-up is a piece of cake if you have two functioning brain cells and 15 minutes to spare.

    "...they wear very rapidly."

    At $17 a pop from The Yellow Jersey...who cares? They certainly wear no more quickly than the Michelin Pro 4 clinchers I also use. I ordered a pair last night from Chain Reaction Cycles at $29 each. And the 'thin walled' construction of tubulars is certainly no more prone to cuts than popular clinchers such as any model from the Continental line. Hell, the very best in clinchers actually use casings derived from tubulars. You pay your money and you takes your choice.

    It's too bad Chain Reaction doesn't sell clues. You could certainly use a few.
     
  7. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    What's to bet that the guy that won the pork rib eating contest that beat you was riding tubeless tires? With you paying $17 apiece for tubulars it sounds a great deal like "Oh, my god, am I glad that some people like living in the 1920's. I can get rid of my entire stock of useless junk." As for the entire Tour teams running tubulars you're really going to have to buy a clue yourself.

    Maybe you miss the point of tubeless - you don't NEED a road change-out nor do you EVER have to pull the tape off of the bottom, cut out thread in the area where the leak is, repair the tube and reassemble like some 19th century arborist who has nothing left to do on rainy days.
     
  8. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for acknowledging the fact that you're a dumbass.
     
  9. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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  10. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    If you believe that I don't wonder you continue to make senseless statements. The ONLY difference in weight is the hookbead. The wheels I looked up show no difference in weight between clincher and tubular wheelsets.

    I rode tubulars for awhile. Two years ago I threw away a large plastic box full of tubulars and a couple sets of tubular wheels. I cannot detect any difference in cornering or braking between clinchers and tubulars. And repairing tubulars is the biggest pain in the butt in the world. I don't wonder that you'd rather buy a $17 tubular and throw it away rather than repair it. But the tubulars I used to ride were twice that cost in the 2000's.

    And then going tubeless takes away the last disadvantage of a clincher.
     
  11. phillman5

    phillman5 New Member

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    I've had tubless on one bike for about 5 years. I have been using stan's. I had many punctures, from small items, that the stan's seemingly doesn't stop. It seems like many puctures do stop leaking, but at low pressure, pump them up and they leak again. They also sometimes start leaking again, once sealed, when you start riding again and the tube flexes. I see advantages and disadvanges to tubeless in 'everyday' training, and I don't think the advantages are greater than the disadvantages for an everyday rider.
     
  12. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    I suggest you try Orange sealant.
     
  13. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    "The wheels I looked up show no difference in weight between clincher and tubular wheelsets."

    Yup. Another 'Look at me! I'm a moron!' post. Keep up the good work.
     
  14. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    Well, you funnier by the moment.

    50 mm carbon wheel difference between a tubular and a clincher = 7 1/2 ounces.
    weight difference between a pair of tubulars (Continental Sprinters) and clinchers Vittoria Corasa G+ = 100 grams less for a tubeless meaning that the difference in total weight is about three ounces if you don't consider that the rim weights are +/- 30 grams which could mean a total weight different of 1 1/2 ounce.

    Only someone that something really wrong with them would consider that a weight difference. Moreover, several teams in this years tour used Vittoria Corsa tires. So, exactly where was that "everyone uses tubulars" crap we were hearing from you?
     
  15. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Sure they did.

    "
    2018 Tour de France edition will see half of the peloton using Vittoria Corsa tyres. This is an impressive achievement for the brand as well as a straightforward evidence of Vittoria products’ outstanding performances and reliability.

    https://www.vittoria.com/eu/tour-de-france-tyres

    As mentioned already, Corsa is the favourite tyre choice for competitions by pro-teams and athletes alike. Corsa is the world’s best-known and most-used tubular tyre that has been proven by millions of race kilometers by professionals and enthusiasts."

    Thanks for yet another, 'Look at me! I'm a moron!' post.
     
  16. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    I do wonder when you're going to buy a clue? The Vittoria Corsa Speed TLR has the lowest rolling resistance by almost 20% over the next lowest rolling resistance. But according to you no one uses them even in TT's. And btw - these tubeless tires have half lower rolling resistance of the lowest tubular. Were all REALLY sure that teams aren't going to use these in TT's at the very least.

    Tell us all about how you're so bright and others are so stupid. Then run out and get beat by the buy that won the pork rib eating contest. You're really impressive.
     
  17. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    If Corsa tubeless were used in the 2018 Tour, Vittoria would be putting it on their website in neon block print. But, they aren't. They ARE bragging about the teams that use their tubulars, you fucking moron.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    In response to Tommy's splooge job, Conti promises to release a road tubeless tire.

    Oh Wait. No they don't. LMFAO!
     
  19. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    Guess what I just discovered - on the tubular tire tests they ALL came in weighing as much as double the claimed weight. The clinchers came in weighting very close to the claimed weight - plus or minus.

    All Continental tires sold as "ProTection" or "Performance" are tubeless ready.

    Gee Bob, you don't see able to keep up with technology.
     
  20. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    "All Continental tires sold as "ProTection" or "Performance" are tubeless ready."

    Uh...those are Mtb tires. Not road tires.
     
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