More on Unused Expensive Kitchens

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Leila, Feb 2, 2005.

  1. Leila

    Leila Guest

    Today's SF Chronicle Home section features a kitchen tour in pricey
    Belvedere (on a hilly peninsula overlooking SF, Golden Gate Bridge,
    Alcatraz Island and the Bay).

    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/02/02/HOG0RB0LGH24.DTL

    "The five recently remodeled showplaces are so fine that, frankly, it's
    hard to imagine dirtying them up with something as mundane as food.

    "I don't even cook," admitted the homeowner who designed the all-white
    and Carrera marble kitchen at the Cape Cod-style stop No. 3. "I wish
    there were more takeout places that delivered in the neighborhood."

    "She doesn't cook, but she has parties and she has kids, so she planned
    a kitchen designed for her family's way of living, with two dishwashers
    (hidden behind the white maple cabinets of course), a wine fridge, a
    built-in coffee maker and an oversize pantry where the toaster resides.

    "The kitchen opens into the periwinkle-and-white, ocean-evoking family
    room, which opens onto a deck overlooking the bay. Behind the kitchen
    is an 8- by-10 room with a desk and a counter where the kids can do
    homework or crafts.

    "This was an important part of the kitchen for me -- it makes the
    functionality of the kitchen," she said. "You can have the beautiful
    kitchen, but also have the command center for organizing and for kid
    stuff."

    (end quote)
    Appliances include Wolf and Viking ranges, Sub-zero fridges, Miele
    dishwashers, etc. etc. Most are completely hidden by cabinetry.

    I liked that they also featured a do-it-yourself renovation by a staff
    writer that cost less than $5,000, on the same page as the blow-out
    versions.

    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/02/02/HOGSI717TT30.DTL

    I'll bet the $5,000 kitchen sees lots more cooking than the one where
    just the cabinets cost $100,000. BUt that's our world today - those tax
    cuts to the super-rich have to get spent somehow.

    Leila
     
    Tags:


  2. Mark Thorson

    Mark Thorson Guest

    Leila wrote:

    > I'll bet the $5,000 kitchen sees lots more cooking than the one
    > where just the cabinets cost $100,000. BUt that's our world
    > today - those tax cuts to the super-rich have to get spent somehow.


    While today's Republicans don't believe in evolution,
    they _do_ believe in natural selection. :)
     
  3. Goomba38

    Goomba38 Guest

    Damsel in dis Dress wrote:

    > On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 20:15:16 GMT, Dog3 <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>OTOH, my kitchen sees a lot of action
    >>AND gets really, really messy when I cook ;) I'm kind of like a walrus
    >>splashing around the kitchen, bathroom too.

    >
    >
    > Rethinking sending that party invitation to Michael. <G>
    >
    > Carol


    Speaking of Walruses, did anyone see that cute
    movie "Fifty First Dates" with Adam Sandler and
    Drew Barrymore? Very cute... and a cute walrus too :)
    Goomba
     
  4. George

    George Guest

    Goomba38 wrote:

    >
    >
    > Speaking of Walruses, did anyone see that cute movie "Fifty First Dates"
    > with Adam Sandler and Drew Barrymore? Very cute... and a cute walrus too :)
    > Goomba
    >

    It was kind of refreshing to see that movie. Well done, feel good and
    the writers didn't need to use f*** every 2 minutes because of their
    lack of creativity.
     
  5. wff_ng_6 wrote:
    I explained to her that eventually when
    > you get to a certain income level it actually becomes difficult to

    spend
    > even a small fraction of the money. You actually have to work hard at

    it.
    > You'll never get there spending only $200 on the builder's model

    Hotpoint
    > stove at Home Depot. These "trophy kitchens" (in the same sense as

    "trophy
    > wives") serve a purpose... and it's not cooking.


    I saw that article and got a few chuckles. But, I'd like to share
    another take on this behavior. Back in the 60's, I went with my father
    to visit an old family friend who had lived for decades in a house in
    San Francisco's modest, blue-collar Excelsior district. It was the
    home of a Croatian immigrant wh o was from the same place as my father
    and his wife was Italian born. Anyway, they had two kitchens; one
    upstairs and one downstairs. The downstair kitchen was huge with a
    table big enough for 16 eaters and there was a built-in brick
    steel-topped range and oven in one corner plus a newer gas range. And
    it was a very comfortable room. This was the everyday kitchen. Now,
    upstairs was the newer "modern" kitchen with appliances from circa 1940
    and was absolutely spotless with surfaces that shown. I never found
    out if they ever used that kitchen but I doubt it.
    Eat well and often-
    D.M.
     
  6. Norm Soley

    Norm Soley Guest

    "D.A.Martinich" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > I saw that article and got a few chuckles. But, I'd like to share
    > another take on this behavior. Back in the 60's, I went with my
    > father to visit an old family friend who had lived for decades in a
    > house in San Francisco's modest, blue-collar Excelsior district. It
    > was the home of a Croatian immigrant wh o was from the same place as
    > my father and his wife was Italian born. Anyway, they had two
    > kitchens; one upstairs and one downstairs. The downstair kitchen was
    > huge with a table big enough for 16 eaters and there was a built-in
    > brick steel-topped range and oven in one corner plus a newer gas
    > range. And it was a very comfortable room. This was the everyday
    > kitchen. Now, upstairs was the newer "modern" kitchen with appliances
    > from circa 1940 and was absolutely spotless with surfaces that shown.
    > I never found out if they ever used that kitchen but I doubt it.



    The second basement kitchen is for some reason common among immigrants
    from the Mediterrainian, my Macedonian Greek and Italian neighbours all
    had them in the old neighbourhood. You knew you were in a mangia cake house
    if the main floor kitchen was actually used.
     
  7. skoonj

    skoonj Guest

    "Goomba38" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Leila wrote:
    >
    >> I'll bet the $5,000 kitchen sees lots more cooking than the one where
    >> just the cabinets cost $100,000. BUt that's our world today - those tax
    >> cuts to the super-rich have to get spent somehow.
    >>
    >> Leila
    >>

    > While I can't imagine paying that kind of money for a kitchen, think of
    > all trickling down benefits in to the economy those purchases provide!
    > Another day of work for that cabinet maker and his crew.
    > Goomba



    But they could have spent that money on something they needed, creating jobs
    in another sector of the economy. Even investing it should ultimately create
    jobs.

    -T
     
  8. Goomba38

    Goomba38 Guest

    skoonj wrote:


    >>While I can't imagine paying that kind of money for a kitchen, think of
    >>all trickling down benefits in to the economy those purchases provide!
    >>Another day of work for that cabinet maker and his crew.
    >>Goomba

    >
    >
    >
    > But they could have spent that money on something they needed, creating jobs
    > in another sector of the economy. Even investing it should ultimately create
    > jobs.
    >
    > -T


    But they *wanted* a fancy kitchen. Who are we to
    tell them what they can or should spend their
    money on, as long as it *is* their money??
    Goomba
     
  9. In article <[email protected]>, Dog3
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Goomba38 <[email protected]> wrote in news:85CdnT6M8_kvr5zfRVn-
    > [email protected]:
    >
    > > Leila wrote:
    > >
    > >> I'll bet the $5,000 kitchen sees lots more cooking than the one where
    > >> just the cabinets cost $100,000. BUt that's our world today - those
    > >> tax
    > >> cuts to the super-rich have to get spent somehow.
    > >>
    > >> Leila
    > >>

    > > Another day of work for that cabinet maker and his crew.
    > > Goomba


    >We can't do it for awhile but I have most of it picked out. It
    > may be around $40,000 when finished.


    And closer to $50K by the time you get around to starting the project.
    "-)
    --
    -Barb
    <www.jamlady.eboard.com>; Tater Tot Hotdish and Jam Class pics added 2-2-05
    "I got the motive, which is money; and the body, which is dead!" - Rod
    Steiger as Sheriff Gillespie, "In the Heat of the Night," 1967.
     
  10. In article <[email protected]>, "wff_ng_6"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Leila" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > I'll bet the $5,000 kitchen sees lots more cooking than the one where
    > > just the cabinets cost $100,000. BUt that's our world today - those tax
    > > cuts to the super-rich have to get spent somehow.

    >
    > A decade ago I remember telling to a coworker who lived a rather
    > sheltered life about these kitchens. She was completely unaware of
    > things like $5,000 outdoor grilles and $10,000 stoves. I explained to
    > her that eventually when you get to a certain income level it
    > actually becomes difficult to spend even a small fraction of the
    > money. You actually have to work hard at it. You'll never get there
    > spending only $200 on the builder's model Hotpoint stove at Home
    > Depot. These "trophy kitchens" (in the same sense as "trophy wives")
    > serve a purpose... and it's not cooking.


    What the purpose? To get rid of the dough? Conspicuous consumption
    because you can?
    >
    > I do quite well with my little galley kitchen using my 32 year old
    > "Chateau by Magic Chef" double oven "builder's model" stove. Maybe
    > it's the "All Clad" cookware I'm using that saves me (though deep
    > down inside I know I'd do just as well using the 20 year old Korean
    > "International Cookware" I also still have).


    Saves you from what?
    --
    -Barb
    <www.jamlady.eboard.com>; Tater Tot Hotdish and Jam Class pics added 2-2-05
    "I got the motive, which is money; and the body, which is dead!" - Rod
    Steiger as Sheriff Gillespie, "In the Heat of the Night," 1967.
     
  11. wff_ng_6

    wff_ng_6 Guest

    "Melba's Jammin'" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> These "trophy kitchens" (in the same sense as "trophy wives")
    >> serve a purpose... and it's not cooking.

    >
    > What the purpose? To get rid of the dough? Conspicuous consumption
    > because you can?


    Yes, to get rid of the dough... and not dough of the flour variety. At some
    point, what is the purpose of more and more income if you can't spend it on
    something? And spending it literally becomes difficult. At the extreme are
    things like Michelangelo's David "on ice" pissing vodka (the Tyco scandal,
    for the uninitiated). Maybe that particular ice scupture was more tasteless
    than a trophy kitchen for someone who's cooking skills begin and end at the
    microwave, but only to a matter of degree... it's still conspicous
    consumption because you can. Oh, maybe the pissing David was paid for with
    ill gotten money, but it doesn't change the fact that both are spending for
    spending's sake.

    >> I do quite well with my little galley kitchen using my 32 year old
    >> "Chateau by Magic Chef" double oven "builder's model" stove. Maybe
    >> it's the "All Clad" cookware I'm using that saves me (though deep
    >> down inside I know I'd do just as well using the 20 year old Korean
    >> "International Cookware" I also still have).

    >
    > Saves you from what?


    Saves me from bad results. As long as the equipment meets certain basic
    requirements, the results are much more a function of the user's skills than
    the sophistication of the equipment. Does the stove provide a heat source,
    does the pan contain the food and transfer heat evenly, etc.? To a large
    extent the main thing high end equipment brings one is enough pride in one's
    tools to "keep at it" until they perfect their technique. If you don't
    actually cook, what purpose does it serve? There are houses built with very
    elaborate "display only" kitchens, backed up by simpler kitchens behind the
    scenes for caterers to use. You wouldn't want the caterers to mess up your
    museum piece.

    Of course this whole thing of expensive equipment way beyond and above any
    real use goes well beyond kitchens... it's prevalent in power tools,
    automobiles, and many other things. People can get quite clever in
    convincing themselves that they "need" something.
     
  12. The Cook

    The Cook Guest

    "wff_ng_6" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Melba's Jammin'" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> These "trophy kitchens" (in the same sense as "trophy wives")
    >>> serve a purpose... and it's not cooking.

    >>
    >> What the purpose? To get rid of the dough? Conspicuous consumption
    >> because you can?

    >
    >Yes, to get rid of the dough... and not dough of the flour variety. At some
    >point, what is the purpose of more and more income if you can't spend it on
    >something? And spending it literally becomes difficult. At the extreme are
    >things like Michelangelo's David "on ice" pissing vodka (the Tyco scandal,
    >for the uninitiated). Maybe that particular ice scupture was more tasteless
    >than a trophy kitchen for someone who's cooking skills begin and end at the
    >microwave, but only to a matter of degree... it's still conspicous
    >consumption because you can. Oh, maybe the pissing David was paid for with
    >ill gotten money, but it doesn't change the fact that both are spending for
    >spending's sake.
    >
    >>> I do quite well with my little galley kitchen using my 32 year old
    >>> "Chateau by Magic Chef" double oven "builder's model" stove. Maybe
    >>> it's the "All Clad" cookware I'm using that saves me (though deep
    >>> down inside I know I'd do just as well using the 20 year old Korean
    >>> "International Cookware" I also still have).

    >>
    >> Saves you from what?

    >
    >Saves me from bad results. As long as the equipment meets certain basic
    >requirements, the results are much more a function of the user's skills than
    >the sophistication of the equipment. Does the stove provide a heat source,
    >does the pan contain the food and transfer heat evenly, etc.? To a large
    >extent the main thing high end equipment brings one is enough pride in one's
    >tools to "keep at it" until they perfect their technique. If you don't
    >actually cook, what purpose does it serve? There are houses built with very
    >elaborate "display only" kitchens, backed up by simpler kitchens behind the
    >scenes for caterers to use. You wouldn't want the caterers to mess up your
    >museum piece.
    >
    >Of course this whole thing of expensive equipment way beyond and above any
    >real use goes well beyond kitchens... it's prevalent in power tools,
    >automobiles, and many other things. People can get quite clever in
    >convincing themselves that they "need" something.
    >
    >
    >

    I have no idea what I would do if I had more money than I knew what to
    do with. And darn it, there seems to be no chance of my finding out.


    --
    Susan N.

    "Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral, 48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
    Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)
     
  13. In article <[email protected]>, "wff_ng_6"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Melba's Jammin'" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >> These "trophy kitchens" (in the same sense as "trophy wives")
    > >> serve a purpose... and it's not cooking.


    > > What the purpose? To get rid of the dough? Conspicuous
    > > consumption because you can?

    >
    > Yes, to get rid of the dough... and not dough of the flour variety.
    > At some point, what is the purpose of more and more income if you
    > can't spend it on something? And spending it literally becomes
    > difficult.


    The problem people have is knowing "how much is enough." Applies to
    food, money, sex, material goods, love -- lots of things. And because
    we haven't decided, we continue the quest to have more, hoping that will
    fill the emptiness. And sometimes we won't accept what it is we really
    need to have "enough" - to be "complete" -- so we acquire more "stuff"
    -- or eat more food to quiet the internal sadness, hoping that THAT
    will do the trick. Seems like it usually does not.

    It's why I admire a wealthy relative -- she's got "enough" (just spent a
    few months getting rid of stuff on eBay -- she was selling as
    StuffIsGone - and now spends about 6-8 months of the year in Uganda,
    doing what she can to help the Ugandans improve their lot in life.
    She's working on improving basic education for children, for starters.
    I had the most wonderful letter from her this morning -- MOF, I've just
    posted it to my website. Have a read.

    > >> I do quite well with my little galley kitchen using my 32 year old
    > >> "Chateau by Magic Chef" double oven "builder's model" stove. Maybe
    > >> it's the "All Clad" cookware I'm using that saves me (though deep
    > >> down inside I know I'd do just as well using the 20 year old
    > >> Korean "International Cookware" I also still have).


    > > Saves you from what?

    >
    > Saves me from bad results. As long as the equipment meets certain
    > basic requirements, the results are much more a function of the
    > user's skills than the sophistication of the equipment.


    I agree completely.

    > Of course this whole thing of expensive equipment way beyond and
    > above any real use goes well beyond kitchens... it's prevalent in
    > power tools, automobiles, and many other things. People can get quite
    > clever in convincing themselves that they "need" something.


    Indeed. How much is enough? More important, when you have "enough",
    what do you with the excess?
    --
    -Barb
    <www.jamlady.eboard.com>; Tater Tot Hotdish and Jam Class pics added 2-2-05
    "I got the motive, which is money; and the body, which is dead!" - Rod
    Steiger as Sheriff Gillespie, "In the Heat of the Night," 1967.
     
  14. "Goomba38" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > skoonj wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>While I can't imagine paying that kind of money for a kitchen, think of
    >>>all trickling down benefits in to the economy those purchases provide!
    >>>Another day of work for that cabinet maker and his crew.
    >>>Goomba

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> But they could have spent that money on something they needed, creating
    >> jobs in another sector of the economy. Even investing it should
    >> ultimately create jobs.
    >>
    >> -T

    >
    > But they *wanted* a fancy kitchen. Who are we to tell them what they can
    > or should spend their money on, as long as it *is* their money??
    > Goomba


    I just wish I lived nearby when these folks remodel the kitchen so I could
    get dibs on the stuff they installed a couple of years ago. sigh oh,
    well. With the exception of my wall oven, I'm very happy with everything I
    have.
    Janet
     
  15. Vox Humana

    Vox Humana Guest

    "Goomba38" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > skoonj wrote:
    >
    >
    > >>While I can't imagine paying that kind of money for a kitchen, think of
    > >>all trickling down benefits in to the economy those purchases provide!
    > >>Another day of work for that cabinet maker and his crew.
    > >>Goomba

    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > But they could have spent that money on something they needed, creating

    jobs
    > > in another sector of the economy. Even investing it should ultimately

    create
    > > jobs.
    > >
    > > -T

    >
    > But they *wanted* a fancy kitchen. Who are we to
    > tell them what they can or should spend their
    > money on, as long as it *is* their money??
    > Goomba


    How many old guys do you see driving expensive sports cars. Same thing.
    You know the cars only come out of the garage on nice days and never go more
    than 50.
     
  16. Vox Humana

    Vox Humana Guest

    "Janet Bostwick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    >
    > I just wish I lived nearby when these folks remodel the kitchen so I could
    > get dibs on the stuff they installed a couple of years ago. sigh oh,
    > well. With the exception of my wall oven, I'm very happy with everything

    I
    > have.
    > Janet


    We have a business that specializes in this sort of thing. They sell
    cabinets that were removed when kitchens were remodeled. I have seen lots
    of pretty new looking cabinets there that were in showroom condition.
     
  17. "Vox Humana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    snip
    > We have a business that specializes in this sort of thing. They sell
    > cabinets that were removed when kitchens were remodeled. I have seen lots
    > of pretty new looking cabinets there that were in showroom condition.
    >
    >

    I don't think we have anything like that here. It may all be handled
    individually by each retailer.
    Janet
     
  18. wff_ng_6

    wff_ng_6 Guest

    "Melba's Jammin'" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > The problem people have is knowing "how much is enough." Applies to
    > food, money, sex, material goods, love -- lots of things. And because
    > we haven't decided, we continue the quest to have more, hoping that will
    > fill the emptiness. And sometimes we won't accept what it is we really
    > need to have "enough" - to be "complete" -- so we acquire more "stuff"
    > -- or eat more food to quiet the internal sadness, hoping that THAT
    > will do the trick. Seems like it usually does not.


    Something related to this is the question of whether having lots of choices
    makes one happy. There were some recent studies that suggested that having
    too many choices can have the effect of making one less satisfied with life
    rather than more. There was something to Henry Ford making the Model T only
    in black. You could say "Okay, I'll take it in black" and just get on with
    life.

    Several years ago I got exasperated with my brother who was staying with me
    as he was looking for a house. He took forever to find the "perfect" house,
    and in the end it wasn't perfect. He complained and complained about the
    lack of choices in my area. I finally told him the problem was not the lack
    of choice, but too many choices. He agonized over it because he didn't want
    to make the wrong choice. In his prior house purchases in small town
    Virginia and Arkansas, there may have only been five or so houses for sale
    at any given time, so making the selection was trivial. But in the
    Washington, DC metro area, there were hundreds of houses that met his basic
    criteria. It paralyzed him.
     
  19. wff_ng_6

    wff_ng_6 Guest

    "Melba's Jammin'" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > The problem people have is knowing "how much is enough." Applies to
    > food, money, sex, material goods, love -- lots of things. And because
    > we haven't decided, we continue the quest to have more, hoping that will
    > fill the emptiness. And sometimes we won't accept what it is we really
    > need to have "enough" - to be "complete" -- so we acquire more "stuff"
    > -- or eat more food to quiet the internal sadness, hoping that THAT
    > will do the trick. Seems like it usually does not.


    Something related to this is the question of whether having lots of choices
    makes one happy. There were some recent studies that suggested that having
    too many choices can have the effect of making one less satisfied with life
    rather than more. There was something to Henry Ford making the Model T only
    in black. You could say "Okay, I'll take it in black" and just get on with
    life.

    Several years ago I got exasperated with my brother who was staying with me
    as he was looking for a house. He took forever to find the "perfect" house,
    and in the end it wasn't perfect. He complained and complained about the
    lack of choices in my area. I finally told him the problem was not the lack
    of choice, but too many choices. He agonized over it because he didn't want
    to make the wrong choice. In his prior house purchases in small town
    Virginia and Arkansas, there may have only been five or so houses for sale
    at any given time, so making the selection was trivial. But in the
    Washington, DC metro area, there were hundreds of houses that met his basic
    criteria. It paralyzed him.
     
  20. Vox Humana

    Vox Humana Guest

    "Janet Bostwick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Vox Humana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > snip
    > > We have a business that specializes in this sort of thing. They sell
    > > cabinets that were removed when kitchens were remodeled. I have seen

    lots
    > > of pretty new looking cabinets there that were in showroom condition.
    > >
    > >

    > I don't think we have anything like that here. It may all be handled
    > individually by each retailer.


    I bet most retailers simply put the used cabinets into the dumpster. If you
    watch the remodeling shows on TV, they always seem to remove the cabinets
    with a sledge hammer. It seems a shame since most cabinets are simply
    attached to the wall and each other with a couple of screws. I guess that
    the time it would take being careful and then transporting the cabinets and
    maintaining a sales space might not be very profitable. Used cabinets were
    the building blocks of the "basement kitchen" when I was young. In fact,
    when my mother had her kitchen remodeled a few years ago, she saved the
    cabinets and uses them for storage.
     
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