More Rabobank fun and games



trg wrote:
> | http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2006/news/story?id=2520455
> | Booby also thinks it was a dumb move - so you're probably
> | wrong. Although I think your reason (Pereiro is not to be
> | trifled with) is better than his (disrespect for the jersey and
> | other teams supposedly being alienated by this).
>
> Well, disagreeing with something Booby writes in ESPN doesn't automatically
> make a person wrong.


he's saying agreeing with booby makes a person wrong.
 
trg wrote:
> Ok. I'll give you 5 to 1 odds on Pereiro winning the Tour de France. I'll
> cover any amount you want. Not interested? 10 to 1 then. Still not
> interested? Ok 20 to 1. No? Hmm, not much of a risk they're taking.
>
> |
> | stupid, not crazy stupid, but it's a risk they didn't need to take.
> |


the above sums it up. they are taking a risk they didn't need to.

anyone in this race could crack, anytime. if landis has a rough day, he
has two more riders to contain, popo and pereiro. guys who phonak
allowed back into the GC race.
 
<[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
|
| trg wrote:
| > Ok. I'll give you 5 to 1 odds on Pereiro winning the Tour de France.
I'll
| > cover any amount you want. Not interested? 10 to 1 then. Still not
| > interested? Ok 20 to 1. No? Hmm, not much of a risk they're taking.
| >
| > |
| > | stupid, not crazy stupid, but it's a risk they didn't need to take.
| > |
|
| the above sums it up. they are taking a risk they didn't need to.
|
| anyone in this race could crack, anytime. if landis has a rough day, he
| has two more riders to contain, popo and pereiro. guys who phonak
| allowed back into the GC race.
|

Floyd isn't Lance. And Phonak isn't Discovery. It was easier for Discovery
because they only had to control 1 guy, 2 max. Bruyneel even said they
didn't consider someone like Vino a threat. But here, how many threats are
there, people who you don't want to get into a break? Kloden, Menchov,
Sastre, Moreau, Rogers, Evans, Leipheimer, Azevedo, Totschnig, Sinkewitz,
Karpets. These are riders who were within 10 minutes of Landis already
(without having taken time back in a break). Phonak can't control them all.
If Landis has a bad day, as you suggest, he's gonna get eaten by one or more
of these guys. Adding Pereiro, who is not a threat for Landis, and who will
be controlled by the rest of the hopefuls is not a problem. And now, Caisse
d'Epargne will control the worst of the threats, like Menchov, Evans, and
all those who would take the yellow jersey if they were in a break. And this
way, Phonak took it easy yesterday, today, restday, and possibly part of
Tuesday. And considering their performance, they need as much as an
advantage in the mountains as they can get. BTW, Floyd also gets a couple of
extra hours a day without all the official duties that come with the yellow
jersey.
 
>
> It's not a question of experience, but of energy. Remember, Discovery/Postal
> also intentionally gave away the jersey to conserve energy. (Thomas Voekler
> being perhaps the most publicized recipient of their largess.) They always
> gave it away to someone they thought they could take it back from. Phonak
> played it perfectly.
>
> Here's an explanation of their tactics today-
>
> http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=9784


Yes indeed, Voeckler placed top 10 the years before his escape. *ROLS
EYES*

Perreiro ain't nearly as harmless as Voeckler.

I bet he wont finish podium, but Phonak took a BIG risk by allowing a
top ten rider to get back as a player.
 
In article
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> trg wrote:
> > Ok. I'll give you 5 to 1 odds on Pereiro winning the Tour de France. I'll
> > cover any amount you want. Not interested? 10 to 1 then. Still not
> > interested? Ok 20 to 1. No? Hmm, not much of a risk they're taking.
> >
> > |
> > | stupid, not crazy stupid, but it's a risk they didn't need to take.
> > |

>
> the above sums it up. they are taking a risk they didn't need to.
>
> anyone in this race could crack, anytime. if landis has a rough day, he
> has two more riders to contain, popo and pereiro. guys who phonak
> allowed back into the GC race.


They decrease the probability of Landis or any Phonak
rider cracking by easing back the effort on these stages.
Cracking is always a risk; that is why the races are run.
If 90 seconds to Pereiro is not safe, neither is 60
seconds over Menchov.

--
Michael Press
 
[email protected] wrote in
news:[email protected]:


> anyone in this race could crack, anytime. if landis has a rough day,
> he has two more riders to contain, popo and pereiro. guys who phonak
> allowed back into the GC race.


Ridiculous. If Floyd cracks to the point where he is worried about
containing Popovytch and Periero, he'll just be scraping for minor placings
behind Menchov, Evans, Sastre, Kloden, Leipheimer and some others inclucing
even Moreau.

NS
 
in message <[email protected]>,
Tuschinski ('[email protected]') wrote:

>>
>> It's not a question of experience, but of energy. Remember,
>> Discovery/Postal also intentionally gave away the jersey to conserve
>> energy. (Thomas Voekler being perhaps the most publicized recipient of
>> their largess.) They always gave it away to someone they thought they
>> could take it back from. Phonak played it perfectly.
>>
>> Here's an explanation of their tactics today-
>>
>> http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=9784

>
> Yes indeed, Voeckler placed top 10 the years before his escape. *ROLS
> EYES*
>
> Perreiro ain't nearly as harmless as Voeckler.


Furthermore, Voeckler escaped early in the first week, when there was
masses of time to claw it back[1]. Whoever wants to claw Perreiro back
has only a week to do it in. And, I bet it isn't Landis. Once you've
given it away, you don't have incumbent advantage any more.

> I bet he wont finish podium, but Phonak took a BIG risk by allowing a
> top ten rider to get back as a player.


Uh-huh. Absolutely.

[1] Don't get me wrong - Thomas Voeckler is one of my personal heroes.
But he isn't yet a GC contender and probably never will be. His epic,
doomed lone chase on Thursday was typical of the man: c'est magnifique,
mais c'n'est pas la guerre.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; "If I were a Microsoft Public Relations person, I would probably
;; be sobbing on a desk right now" -- Rob Miller, editor, /.
 
Nev Shea wrote:
> [email protected] wrote in
> news:[email protected]:


> Ridiculous. If Floyd cracks to the point where he is worried about
> containing Popovytch and Periero, he'll just be scraping for minor placings
> behind Menchov, Evans, Sastre, Kloden, Leipheimer and some others inclucing
> even Moreau.


dumbass,

if landis has a rough day and only manages to sit on menchov's wheel,
at the end of the day he is still ahead.

if he only manages to hang on pereiro's wheel he will still have time
to make up.
 
"amit" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
|
| Nev Shea wrote:
| > [email protected] wrote in
| > news:[email protected]:
|
| > Ridiculous. If Floyd cracks to the point where he is worried about
| > containing Popovytch and Periero, he'll just be scraping for minor
placings
| > behind Menchov, Evans, Sastre, Kloden, Leipheimer and some others
inclucing
| > even Moreau.
|
| dumbass,
|
| if landis has a rough day and only manages to sit on menchov's wheel,
| at the end of the day he is still ahead.
|
| if he only manages to hang on pereiro's wheel he will still have time
| to make up.
|

Dumbass-

If he only manages to hang on tp Pereiro's wheel , then both he and Pereiro
will have time to make up on Menchov, Sastre, Evans, ... Floyd's not
concerned about anything but the top step.
 
in message <[email protected]>, Nev
Shea ('[email protected]') wrote:

> [email protected] wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
>> anyone in this race could crack, anytime. if landis has a rough day,
>> he has two more riders to contain, popo and pereiro. guys who phonak
>> allowed back into the GC race.

>
> Ridiculous. If Floyd cracks to the point where he is worried about
> containing Popovytch and Periero, he'll just be scraping for minor
> placings behind Menchov, Evans, Sastre, Kloden, Leipheimer and some
> others inclucing even Moreau.


Yes. That's right.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; I'll have a proper rant later, when I get the time.
 
trg wrote:

> If he only manages to hang on tp Pereiro's wheel , then both he and Pereiro
> will have time to make up on Menchov, Sastre, Evans, .


dumbass,

pereiro's in the lead now, he only has to follow wheels to maintain
that lead - until the TT that is.

floyd himself admits it's a risk:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/news/?id=/news/2006/jul06/jul16news5

"he was 30 minutes down before the stage today and there are still
three hard mountain states to go. I think that's no matter what happens
next, we have to gamble a little bit because we can't ride all day,
every day. So there it is, that is our gamble."

and Lelangue :

"With this kind of gap, 1'25, I think it is okay. Of course, we don't
give him six or seven minutes"

armstrong did not worry about voeckler or kivilev (i wouldn't have
either), but phonak is a little nervous about pereiro.
 
<[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...

| pereiro's in the lead now, he only has to follow wheels to maintain
| that lead - until the TT that is.
|
| floyd himself admits it's a risk:
|

Yeah, and I ONLY have to ride each stage next year quicker than everyone
else next year to win the yellow jersey and every stage. The devil's in the
details.

Of course it's a risk, dumbass. It's not possible to win the Tour without
taking risks, even if your name is Lance "To win the Tour de France you have
to be willing to risk losing it."Armstrong. But obviously Floyd considers
it a lesser risk than having the team defend the jersey the whole way, i.e.
a risk they had to take.
 
>
> Ok. I'll give you 5 to 1 odds on Pereiro winning the Tour de France. I'll
> cover any amount you want. Not interested? 10 to 1 then. Still not
> interested? Ok 20 to 1. No? Hmm, not much of a risk they're taking.
>
> |
> | stupid, not crazy stupid, but it's a risk they didn't need to take.
> |


Well Pereiro>Landis.... And it shows that it was exactly the big risk a
lot of followers thought it was.

Oscar Pereiro is a different calibre as Voeckler. A lot of Team
leaders will be scratching behind their ears... wtf happened^^
 
Tuschinski wrote:
> >
> > Ok. I'll give you 5 to 1 odds on Pereiro winning the Tour de France. I'll
> > cover any amount you want. Not interested? 10 to 1 then. Still not
> > interested? Ok 20 to 1. No? Hmm, not much of a risk they're taking.
> >
> > |
> > | stupid, not crazy stupid, but it's a risk they didn't need to take.
> > |

>
> Well Pereiro>Landis.... And it shows that it was exactly the big risk a
> lot of followers thought it was.
>
> Oscar Pereiro is a different calibre as Voeckler. A lot of Team
> leaders will be scratching behind their ears... wtf happened^^


Under the circumstances, giving 30 minutes to Pereiro was still not a
bad idea. It gave Phonak one day of leisurely riding at the front,
plus one day of not riding at the front at all. They couldn't have
forecasted Floyd's "jour sans", and with or without Pereiro, Floyd
would still be well out of contention.

The only way to conclude that giving the time away was a bad idea is if
Floyd were to finish second to Pereiro.
 
"Tuschinski" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> Well Pereiro>Landis.... And it shows that it was exactly the big risk
> a lot of followers thought it was.


no it doesn't -- everyone thought it was Floyd taking the risk. If he could
have hung with that group he'd be fine and could count on taking time out
of Pereiro in the TT. Now it looks like the risk was taken by T-Mobile or
CSC by sitting on their hands waiting for Phonak to do all the work.

NS
Phonak DS
 
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:55:55 GMT, Nev Shea <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Now it looks like the risk was taken by T-Mobile or
>CSC by sitting on their hands waiting for Phonak to do all the work.


Yes, what were, at the time, questionable tactics by Phonax have now
passed on to TM and CSC.
 
Jack Hollis wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:55:55 GMT, Nev Shea <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Now it looks like the risk was taken by T-Mobile or
> >CSC by sitting on their hands waiting for Phonak to do all the work.

>
> Yes, what were, at the time, questionable tactics by Phonax have now
> passed on to TM and CSC.


That's right. They must be kicking themselves for not chasing on
behalf of Phonak that day. Of course, none of this could've been
predicted and everyone assumed it would still be a battle to dislodge
Floyd (or whomever was in yellow after Alpe d'Huez). That battle's
been won (unfortunately not by Floyd) and now they have to find a way
to deal with Pereiro.

I don't know if it'll happen tomorrow, but I imagine Sastre will
overtake Pereiro on Saturday.
 
in 515084 20060719 200155 "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I don't know if it'll happen tomorrow, but I imagine Sastre will
>overtake Pereiro on Saturday.


Why? They were 16th and 18th in the last ITT, only 30 secs between them.