More velodrome fun?



Hi All,

Time for more Velodrome math.

I only just became aware that Chris Boardman no longer holds the hour
record.

I read that Sosenka used a 3.2kg wheel and 190mm cranks. The guy is 2m
tall so the long cranks isn't strange, but what about the heavy wheel?
Did that help? How?

Joseph
 
On Apr 21, 2:41 pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Time for more Velodrome math.
>
> I only just became aware that Chris Boardman no longer holds the hour
> record.
>
> I read that Sosenka used a 3.2kg wheel and 190mm cranks. The guy is 2m
> tall so the long cranks isn't strange, but what about the heavy wheel?
> Did that help? How?
>
> Joseph


It helped only insofar as he mentally thought it would help, because
he believed the long-since disproven myth about flywheel affect and
heavy wheels. In reality it didn't matter one bit.
 
M

Michael Press

Guest
In article
<[email protected]>,
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Time for more Velodrome math.
>
> I only just became aware that Chris Boardman no longer holds the hour
> record.
>
> I read that Sosenka used a 3.2kg wheel and 190mm cranks. The guy is 2m
> tall so the long cranks isn't strange, but what about the heavy wheel?
> Did that help? How?


Faster through the turns.

--
Michael Press
 
M

Michael Press

Guest
In article
<[email protected]m>,
[email protected] wrote:

> On Apr 21, 2:41 pm, "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Time for more Velodrome math.
> >
> > I only just became aware that Chris Boardman no longer holds the hour
> > record.
> >
> > I read that Sosenka used a 3.2kg wheel and 190mm cranks. The guy is 2m
> > tall so the long cranks isn't strange, but what about the heavy wheel?
> > Did that help? How?
> >
> > Joseph

>
> It helped only insofar as he mentally thought it would help, because
> he believed the long-since disproven myth about flywheel affect and
> heavy wheels. In reality it didn't matter one bit.


The flywheel will smooth out changes in cadence.
Changing cadence is an energy drain.

--
Michael Press
 
B

Bob Schwartz

Guest
Michael Press wrote:
> The flywheel will smooth out changes in cadence.
> Changing cadence is an energy drain.


Great. Now I have a comeback for the guy that says
that cadence is a red herring.

Bob Schwartz
 
R

Ryan Cousineau

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote:

> Michael Press wrote:
> > The flywheel will smooth out changes in cadence.
> > Changing cadence is an energy drain.

>
> Great. Now I have a comeback for the guy that says
> that cadence is a red herring.
>
> Bob Schwartz


I don't think that works. I'm pretty sure the plan with the Hour Record
is to pick one and stick with it.

It doesn't matter which one,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
 
M

Michael Press

Guest
In article
<[email protected][74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Bob Schwartz <bob.schw[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Michael Press wrote:
> > > The flywheel will smooth out changes in cadence.
> > > Changing cadence is an energy drain.

> >
> > Great. Now I have a comeback for the guy that says
> > that cadence is a red herring.

>
> I don't think that works. I'm pretty sure the plan with the Hour Record
> is to pick one and stick with it.
>
> It doesn't matter which one,


You seem to be agreeing with me. ??

--
Michael Press
 
R

Ryan Cousineau

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article
> <[email protected][74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]>,
> Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Michael Press wrote:
> > > > The flywheel will smooth out changes in cadence.
> > > > Changing cadence is an energy drain.
> > >
> > > Great. Now I have a comeback for the guy that says
> > > that cadence is a red herring.

> >
> > I don't think that works. I'm pretty sure the plan with the Hour Record
> > is to pick one and stick with it.
> >
> > It doesn't matter which one,

>
> You seem to be agreeing with me. ??


I have no idea about what I think about anything anymore. At the rate
I'm going, I'm going to start excusing Boonen's recent non-victory.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
 
D

Donald Munro

Guest
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> I have no idea about what I think about anything anymore.


That's because you don't have any free will, and I'm not sure if you
can buy free will on the web.
 
R

Ryan Cousineau

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Donald Munro <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > I have no idea about what I think about anything anymore.

>
> That's because you don't have any free will, and I'm not sure if you
> can buy free will on the web.


It's available for free:

http://www.freewill.net/freewill%20(master).mp3

Libertarian rockers Rush would probably prefer you paid for it:

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?i=153857896&i
d=153857759&s=143455

I want to ride my bicycle,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
 
On Apr 22, 1:08 am, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
>
>  "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi All,

>
> > Time for more Velodrome math.

>
> > I only just became aware that Chris Boardman no longer holds the hour
> > record.

>
> > I read that Sosenka used a 3.2kg wheel and 190mm cranks. The guy is 2m
> > tall so the long cranks isn't strange, but what about the heavy wheel?
> > Did that help? How?

>
> Faster through the turns.
>
> --
> Michael Press


You jest, but maybe it actually resisted acceleration in the turns,
and stockpiled a bit of energy there to be dispensed on the straights.

Joseph
 
D

Donald Munro

Guest
Donald Munro <[email protected]> wrote:
>> That's because you don't have any free will, and I'm not sure if you can
>> buy free will on the web.


Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> I want to ride my bicycle,


Yes, but did that impulse originate in your consious or unconsious, or
is that a rhetorical question when it involves a LIVEDRUNKard ?
 
B

Bob Schwartz

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> You jest, but maybe it actually resisted acceleration in the turns,
> and stockpiled a bit of energy there to be dispensed on the straights.


If heavy wheels lowers the center of mass then it
increases the distance the CoM travels, decreasing
speed in the turns. Probably by a negligible amount.

And I have no intention of working out the geometry
to put numbers to that.

Bob Schwartz
 
On Apr 23, 3:14 pm, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > You jest, but maybe it actually resisted acceleration in the turns,
> > and stockpiled a bit of energy there to be dispensed on the straights.

>
> If heavy wheels lowers the center of mass then it
> increases the distance the CoM travels, decreasing
> speed in the turns. Probably by a negligible amount.
>
> And I have no intention of working out the geometry
> to put numbers to that.
>
> Bob Schwartz


So maybe it does help by keeping the speed more constant by a
combination of increasing CoM distance traveled, and resisting
accelerating in turns.

Joseph
 
A

Andy Coggan

Guest
On Apr 21, 6:09 pm, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]m>,
>
>
>
>
>
>  fred.g[email protected] wrote:
> > On Apr 21, 2:41 pm, "[email protected]"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Hi All,

>
> > > Time for more Velodrome math.

>
> > > I only just became aware that Chris Boardman no longer holds the hour
> > > record.

>
> > > I read that Sosenka used a 3.2kg wheel and 190mm cranks. The guy is 2m
> > > tall so the long cranks isn't strange, but what about the heavy wheel?
> > > Did that help? How?

>
> > > Joseph

>
> > It helped only insofar as he mentally thought it would help, because
> > he believed the long-since disproven myth about flywheel affect and
> > heavy wheels.  In reality it didn't matter one bit.

>
> The flywheel will smooth out changes in cadence.


Not significantly.

Andrew Coggan
 
D

Donald Munro

Guest
Bob Schwartz wrote:
>> If heavy wheels lowers the center of mass then it increases the distance
>> the CoM travels, decreasing speed in the turns. Probably by a negligible
>> amount.
>> And I have no intention of working out the geometry to put numbers to
>> that.


joseph.santaniello wrote:
> So maybe it does help by keeping the speed more constant by a combination
> of increasing CoM distance traveled, and resisting accelerating in turns.


Ergo Magilla rides with a 3.2kg wheel.
 
M

Michael Press

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
> > You jest, but maybe it actually resisted acceleration in the turns,
> > and stockpiled a bit of energy there to be dispensed on the straights.

>
> If heavy wheels lowers the center of mass then it
> increases the distance the CoM travels, decreasing

^^^^^^^^^
You meant decreases.

> speed in the turns. Probably by a negligible amount.
>
> And I have no intention of working out the geometry
> to put numbers to that.


--
Michael Press
 
M

Michael Press

Guest
In article
<[email protected]m>,
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Apr 22, 1:08 am, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In article
> > <[email protected]>,
> >
> >  "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Hi All,

> >
> > > Time for more Velodrome math.

> >
> > > I only just became aware that Chris Boardman no longer holds the hour
> > > record.

> >
> > > I read that Sosenka used a 3.2kg wheel and 190mm cranks. The guy is 2m
> > > tall so the long cranks isn't strange, but what about the heavy wheel?
> > > Did that help? How?

> >
> > Faster through the turns.

>
> You jest, but maybe it actually resisted acceleration in the turns,
> and stockpiled a bit of energy there to be dispensed on the straights.


Alright, I will play.

The relative amount of flywheel effect is as the
different in mass of the heavier and lighter
wheels to the overall mass. ~ 3 kg to 80 kg.

--
Michael Press
 
B

Bob Schwartz

Guest
Michael Press wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> You jest, but maybe it actually resisted acceleration in the turns,
>>> and stockpiled a bit of energy there to be dispensed on the straights.

>> If heavy wheels lowers the center of mass then it
>> increases the distance the CoM travels, decreasing

> ^^^^^^^^^
> You meant decreases.


No, I meant increases. If the CoM is closer to the
track surface the radius the CoM travels through
the turn increases, the distance increases.

Bob Schwartz
 
P

Paul G.

Guest
On Apr 21, 4:09 pm, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]m>,
>
>
>
> [email protected] wrote:
> > On Apr 21, 2:41 pm, "[email protected]"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Hi All,

>
> > > Time for more Velodrome math.

>
> > > I only just became aware that Chris Boardman no longer holds the hour
> > > record.

>
> > > I read that Sosenka used a 3.2kg wheel and 190mm cranks. The guy is 2m
> > > tall so the long cranks isn't strange, but what about the heavy wheel?
> > > Did that help? How?

>
> > > Joseph

>
> > It helped only insofar as he mentally thought it would help, because
> > he believed the long-since disproven myth about flywheel affect and
> > heavy wheels. In reality it didn't matter one bit.

>
> The flywheel will smooth out changes in cadence.
> Changing cadence is an energy drain.


I'm thinking you are right. Else they could add lead to the bottom
bracket to get the same effect. Air drag is the main factor in the
hour record, so this must be about increasing thrust. If you've used
an exercycle with friction only vs one with a flywheel and friction,
the flywheel feels a lot more natural to pedal.

It's kind of a hybrid... I wouldn't have thought adding any weight
would help, but you can't argue with success. This is a closed course
and riding a steady speed is the objective, so once you've accelerated
that mass it will help you maintain a steady speed.
-Paul
 

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