More velodrome fun?

[Scott]

On Apr 24, 12:31 pm, "Paul G." <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 21, 4:09 pm, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > <b9cb9b3b-1032-44ef-8273-7bca3e8a4...@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> >  [email protected] wrote:
> > > On Apr 21, 2:41 pm, "[email protected]"
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > Hi All,
>
> > > > Time for more Velodrome math.
>
> > > > I only just became aware that Chris Boardman no longer holds the hour
> > > > record.
>
> > > > I read that Sosenka used a 3.2kg wheel and 190mm cranks. The guy is 2m
> > > > tall so the long cranks isn't strange, but what about the heavy wheel?
> > > > Did that help? How?
>
> > > > Joseph
>
> > > It helped only insofar as he mentally thought it would help, because
> > > he believed the long-since disproven myth about flywheel affect and
> > > heavy wheels.  In reality it didn't matter one bit.
>
> > The flywheel will smooth out changes in cadence.
> > Changing cadence is an energy drain.
>
> I'm thinking you are right.  Else they could add lead to the bottom
> bracket to get the same effect. Air drag is the main factor in the
> hour record, so this must be about increasing thrust. If you've used
> an exercycle with friction only vs one with a flywheel and friction,
> the flywheel feels a lot more natural to pedal.
>
> It's kind of a hybrid... I wouldn't have thought adding any weight
> would help, but you can't argue with success. This is a closed course
> and riding a steady speed is the objective, so once you've accelerated
> that mass it will help you maintain a steady speed.
> -Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No, the extra mass does not help maintain speed. Urban myth,
disproved by science. The extra mass of the heavier wheel in this
instance isn't nearly enough to accomplish what you're describing.

 

[Michael Press]

In article <Lz%[email protected]>,
Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote:

> Michael Press wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> [email protected] wrote:
> >>> You jest, but maybe it actually resisted acceleration in the turns,
> >>> and stockpiled a bit of energy there to be dispensed on the straights.
> >> If heavy wheels lowers the center of mass then it
> >> increases the distance the CoM travels, decreasing
> > ^^^^^^^^^
> > You meant decreases.
>
> No, I meant increases. If the CoM is closer to the
> track surface the radius the CoM travels through
> the turn increases, the distance increases.

Check. Missed it.

--
Michael Press

 

[Paul G.]

On Apr 24, 1:26 pm, Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 24, 12:31 pm, "Paul G." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 21, 4:09 pm, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > In article
> > > <b9cb9b3b-1032-44ef-8273-7bca3e8a4...@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > [email protected] wrote:
> > > > On Apr 21, 2:41 pm, "[email protected]"
> > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > Hi All,
>
> > > > > Time for more Velodrome math.
>
> > > > > I only just became aware that Chris Boardman no longer holds the hour
> > > > > record.
>
> > > > > I read that Sosenka used a 3.2kg wheel and 190mm cranks. The guy is 2m
> > > > > tall so the long cranks isn't strange, but what about the heavy wheel?
> > > > > Did that help? How?
>
> > > > > Joseph
>
> > > > It helped only insofar as he mentally thought it would help, because
> > > > he believed the long-since disproven myth about flywheel affect and
> > > > heavy wheels. In reality it didn't matter one bit.
>
> > > The flywheel will smooth out changes in cadence.
> > > Changing cadence is an energy drain.
>
> > I'm thinking you are right. Else they could add lead to the bottom
> > bracket to get the same effect. Air drag is the main factor in the
> > hour record, so this must be about increasing thrust. If you've used
> > an exercycle with friction only vs one with a flywheel and friction,
> > the flywheel feels a lot more natural to pedal.
>
> > It's kind of a hybrid... I wouldn't have thought adding any weight
> > would help, but you can't argue with success. This is a closed course
> > and riding a steady speed is the objective, so once you've accelerated
> > that mass it will help you maintain a steady speed.
> > -Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> No, the extra mass does not help maintain speed. Urban myth,
> disproved by science. The extra mass of the heavier wheel in this
> instance isn't nearly enough to accomplish what you're describing.

Rethinking it, the only reason to do this is to smooth out the power
in your pedal stroke. Because of the gearing, putting this mass at the
rear wheel and only at the rear wheel gives a multiplier effect to
this extra mass.

Empirically, I'm sure they had data showing that this was
advantageous, and they did set a new record. Ergo, it works.
Here's some interesting data comparing Merckx, Boardman, and Sosenka's
record-setting rides.
http://www.wolfgang-menn.de/sosenka.htm

Their consistency is remarkable.
-Paul

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 25, 2:31 am, "Paul G." <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 24, 1:26 pm, Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 24, 12:31 pm, "Paul G." <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 21, 4:09 pm, Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > In article
> > > > <b9cb9b3b-1032-44ef-8273-7bca3e8a4...@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > >  [email protected] wrote:
> > > > > On Apr 21, 2:41 pm, "[email protected]"
> > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > Hi All,
>
> > > > > > Time for more Velodrome math.
>
> > > > > > I only just became aware that Chris Boardman no longer holds thehour
> > > > > > record.
>
> > > > > > I read that Sosenka used a 3.2kg wheel and 190mm cranks. The guyis 2m
> > > > > > tall so the long cranks isn't strange, but what about the heavy wheel?
> > > > > > Did that help? How?
>
> > > > > > Joseph
>
> > > > > It helped only insofar as he mentally thought it would help, because
> > > > > he believed the long-since disproven myth about flywheel affect and
> > > > > heavy wheels.  In reality it didn't matter one bit.
>
> > > > The flywheel will smooth out changes in cadence.
> > > > Changing cadence is an energy drain.
>
> > > I'm thinking you are right.  Else they could add lead to the bottom
> > > bracket to get the same effect. Air drag is the main factor in the
> > > hour record, so this must be about increasing thrust. If you've used
> > > an exercycle with friction only vs one with a flywheel and friction,
> > > the flywheel feels a lot more natural to pedal.
>
> > > It's kind of a hybrid... I wouldn't have thought adding any weight
> > > would help, but you can't argue with success. This is a closed course
> > > and riding a steady speed is the objective, so once you've accelerated
> > > that mass it will help you maintain a steady speed.
> > > -Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > No, the extra mass does not help maintain speed.  Urban myth,
> > disproved by science.  The extra mass of the heavier wheel in this
> > instance isn't nearly enough to accomplish what you're describing.
>
> Rethinking it, the only reason to do this is to smooth out the power
> in your pedal stroke. Because of the gearing, putting this mass at the
> rear wheel and only at the rear wheel gives a multiplier effect to
> this extra mass.
>
> Empirically, I'm sure they had data showing that this was
> advantageous, and they did set a new record. Ergo, it works.
> Here's some interesting data comparing Merckx, Boardman, and Sosenka's
> record-setting rides.http://www.wolfgang-menn.de/sosenka.htm
>
> Their consistency is remarkable.
> -Paul

How does it make any difference which wheel is the heavy one? Maybe he
should have had 2 chainrings and chains and cogs one on each side so
he could get power down with both pedals? ;-)

Joseph