Moser Leader Ax Frame Geometry



Tech72

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Nov 29, 2003
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Here's a long shot, but hoping someone can help me with. I'm looking for the frame geometry chart for a 90's F.Moser Leader AX frameset. Thanks in advance.
 

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alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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Tech72 said:
Here's a long shot, but hoping someone can help me with. I'm looking for the frame geometry chart for a 90's F.Moser Leader AX frameset. Thanks in advance.
FWIW. I measure the pictured frame to have a 73º seat tube and a steep 74º head tube ...

Those angles are more typical of a 60cm frame ...

The 'oversized' tubing may be creating the visual illusion (for me, at least) that the frame is closer to a 58cm ...

YOU be the judge on that.

Presumably, different size frames have different geometry as would be typical of a 90s vintage frame.
 

Tech72

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Nov 29, 2003
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Appreciate your input. But the photo was intended as a visual for those not familiar with the Moser Leader AX. I'm searching for the geometry chart as I'm interested in buying a Leader AX frameset, but need to verify the exact geometry to get the proper sized frame. If I recalled correctly, 90's vintage Italian racing frame were almost "square", whereby the top tube length usually equalled the seat tube length. So a 52cm c-c frame would have a 52cm top tube length.
 

alfeng

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Jul 23, 2005
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FWIW. I would suspect that a 52cm (c-c) frame would have a ~53cm (c-c) top tube instead of a 52cm top tube ...

MY imprecise memory is that (generically, for Italian frames) ...

A 54cm frame had a ~54.5cm top tube ...

A 55cm frame had a ~56cm top tube ...

The measurement might have seemed "square" because for some reason the convention for Italian frames seemed to be to measure C-T instead of C-C ...

And, THAT difference in how the frame was measured could certainly account for ~1cm of additional length in the seat tube.

Can't you ask the seller for the frame's actual dimensions?
 

CAMPYBOB

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Sep 12, 2005
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Found a '94 Leader at 56 x 56, according to the owner. No angles listed: http://www.foxgalleria.com/bici/leader/

A 57 x 57 with 157 headtube: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=108443

A 51 that's 51 x 53 with 100 headtube: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOSER-Leader-AX-Campagnolo-C-RECORD-1st-gen-Gianni-Bugno-giro-ditalia-ORIA-VGC-/321891403726?hash=item4af23907ce

A 53 at 53 x 53 with a 115 headtube: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOSER-LEADER-AX-Evolution-CAMPAGNOLO-CHORUS-7speed-Size-53cm-/201440554011?hash=item2ee6caec1b

A 60 at 60 x 57 with a 165 headtube: http://www.ebay.com/itm/F-Moser-Leader-Classic-Roadbike-Vintage-Bicycle-Steel-/221911580536?hash=item33aaf5ff78

73° x 74° sounds about right for a 58 or 60 CM size, but the smaller frames usually had a slacker head angle. OP is correct in needing hard data though. And IIRC there were two gens of Leader AX's if not three. Oria and Deda tubing and?
 

oldbobcat

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Aug 31, 2003
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alfeng said:
FWIW. I would suspect that a 52cm (c-c) frame would have a ~53cm (c-c) top tube instead of a 52cm top tube ...

MY imprecise memory is that (generically, for Italian frames) ...

A 54cm frame had a ~54.5cm top tube ...

A 55cm frame had a ~56cm top tube ...
All depends on the Italian frame. Some, like, most notably, Gios, at least the ones exported to the US, were short. Some were long, and some were in between. Most seemed to strive toward "squareness" somewhere in the middle, but that depended on what they determined a medium size frame to be and whether they measured the seat tube center-to-center or center-to-top. In general, smaller than medium, the top tubes were longer than seat tubes. Larger than medium, the top tubes got proportionally shorter.

These days, nearly brand has proportional top tubes in just about every price range (along with crank lengths, handlebar widths, and stem lengths). But back in the '70s and early '80s, the Italians were still showing the rest of the world how to do it.
 

CAMPYBOB

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Sep 12, 2005
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"But back in the '70s and early '80s, the Italians were still showing the rest of the world how to do it."

True that. Only a few of the American builders were as hip as the Italians.

Well...the internal expander seatpost that was used in the Leader AX never really caught on! Sano, but bizarre.

For some reason, Moser's were few and far between in my area.

Some where, there's a Moser catalog or two that need to be scanned and put online.