Most Dangerous: Cars, Dogs, Kids on Wheels, Other Bikers, Pedestrians?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Ziactrice, Apr 19, 2006.

  1. Ziactrice

    Ziactrice Guest

    I did a 55 minute training ride this evening, just shaking into adult
    bicycling still. I've gotten in about three weeks of riding so far. Two
    weeks back, I put stirrups on the pedals, because of an old ACL injury
    - finally getting used to them.

    So how did I wind up dumping myself in the grass, you ask? Dog. In
    fact, got charged three times by the same dog, cussed out by the owner
    of the dog because I made the mistake of trying to herd the nasty
    little guy back to his even nastier owner (not the dog's fault his
    owner is a moron, I figure) because she thought I was 'attacking' her
    dog with my bike. Ummm, yeah, you can't even catch up with the dog in
    your tennies, you think I can in bike cleats?

    So, I get cussed, dog eventually loses interest in person standing
    behind bike telling him authoritatively he is a 'bad dog', 'sit', and
    'go home!' (not that he listened), I ride slowly off, watching. Sure
    enough, he loops around owner and owner's kids, comes back for more
    fun. I manage to ward him off, but in process, go down in the grass. No
    injuries, 'cept my pride. Owner left behind in the interim. Dog goes
    off to another street. I cycle back to owner, tell her 'charged me
    again, dumped me this time, now he's over on (nearby street's name).'
    Ride off while owner is gaping because I came back to tell her where
    her lost dog was.

    How do you rank the most common dangers you encounter by risk? Meaning
    not just severity (cars!) but frequency (kids!). I'm not yet riding on
    the Real Roads, but when I do I suppose I'll be missing that nasty
    little dog in comparison to the traffic.

    Zia
     
    Tags:


  2. recycled-one

    recycled-one Guest

    "Ziactrice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > So, I get cussed, dog eventually loses interest in person standing
    > behind bike telling him authoritatively he is a 'bad dog', 'sit', and
    > 'go home!' (not that he listened), I ride slowly off, watching. Sure
    > enough, he loops around owner and owner's kids, comes back for more
    > fun. I manage to ward him off, but in process, go down in the grass. No
    > injuries, 'cept my pride. Owner left behind in the interim. Dog goes
    > off to another street. I cycle back to owner, tell her 'charged me
    > again, dumped me this time, now he's over on (nearby street's name).'
    > Ride off while owner is gaping because I came back to tell her where
    > her lost dog was.
    >
    > How do you rank the most common dangers you encounter by risk? Meaning
    > not just severity (cars!) but frequency (kids!). I'm not yet riding on
    > the Real Roads, but when I do I suppose I'll be missing that nasty
    > little dog in comparison to the traffic.


    Depends on the route. I don't know why but I am very fortunate in my dog
    encounters. In over a decade I can think of only 3 serious charges by dogs
    and two were from the same dog. Most ignore me. A few give a half-hearted
    and friendly chase.

    The most troublesome from my perspective is the dog in a fenced yard who
    charges maniacally towards you to defend his territory. He can't get at you
    but he can startle you into an accident. At least with dogs on the
    trail/road you see them and can be prepared.

    The biggest problem with kids and dogs is the potential for both to dart in
    an unexpected direction suddenly. I think kids are more prone to that. Most
    adults seem more likely to plod along in one direction.

    The problem with cars can be eliminated 90% by well-designed roads. Of
    course it's the other 10% that can kill you just as dead.

    As for getting ready to ride in traffic: It is just a matter of
    acclimatization. You get used to it.
     
  3. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    Ziactrice wrote:

    > How do you rank the most common dangers you encounter by risk? Meaning
    > not just severity (cars!) but frequency (kids!). I'm not yet riding on
    > the Real Roads, but when I do I suppose I'll be missing that nasty
    > little dog in comparison to the traffic.


    Around here (MA) dogs seem much less of a problem than what's reported
    from some other locales.

    Most studies will show that cyclists are their own biggest danger. Most
    crashes involve just the rider.
     
  4. SlowRider

    SlowRider Guest

    Ziactrice wrote:
    > How do you rank the most common dangers you encounter by risk? Meaning
    > not just severity (cars!) but frequency (kids!). I'm not yet riding on
    > the Real Roads, but when I do I suppose I'll be missing that nasty
    > little dog in comparison to the traffic.


    Roads: Inattentive drivers with or without cell-phones.

    Bike trails: Inattentive pedestrians with or without dogs.
    Power-walkers who go 3 abreast and talk too loudly to hear anyone else
    ("on your left ...ON YOUR LEFT ...HEY!! I'M COMING BY ON YOUR LEFT!!!")

    Regarding dogs, there is one little rascal in my area who lives next to
    a popular cycling road. He'll charge across his yard in a barking
    frenzy and grind to an abrupt halt right at his driveway's edge. Never
    sets a paw on the road, but looks for all the world like he'll shoot
    right into you. I think it gives his life meaning to startle the %$#!
    out of unwary cyclists.

    I'm used to him so it puts a smile on my face every time I see him.
    His house was at mile ~60 of a century ride a few years back. I swear
    I thought he was cheering me on. :)


    -JR
     
  5. Scott L

    Scott L Guest

    SlowRider wrote:
    > Ziactrice wrote:
    >
    >>How do you rank the most common dangers you encounter by risk? Meaning
    >>not just severity (cars!) but frequency (kids!). I'm not yet riding on
    >>the Real Roads, but when I do I suppose I'll be missing that nasty
    >>little dog in comparison to the traffic.

    >
    >
    > Roads: Inattentive drivers with or without cell-phones.
    >
    > Bike trails: Inattentive pedestrians with or without dogs.
    > Power-walkers who go 3 abreast and talk too loudly to hear anyone else
    > ("on your left ...ON YOUR LEFT ...HEY!! I'M COMING BY ON YOUR LEFT!!!")


    Why would anyone train on a multi-use path? The one
    I'm most familiar with is overrun with kindergarteners
    on bikes, college students rollerblading, iPodded
    joggers, construction equipment, neighbors talking, . . .
    Training on it seems nothing short of remarkably foolish
    to me.

    Scott
     
  6. bill

    bill Guest

    I ran over a dog once. It charged at me in a corner, went under the
    rear wheel, and then yelped as it ran back from whence it came. It was
    about mile 60 of a 96 mile bike marathon raising moolah for cancer or
    something.

    I was around 13 and riding a Ross 10 speed, and so the combination of
    youthfull skill and quickness, combined with a heavy steel wheeled
    bike, ensured that I stayed on course.
     
  7. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Ziactrice" <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    > How do you rank the most common dangers you encounter by risk? Meaning
    > not just severity (cars!) but frequency (kids!).


    Well, I'd put jaywalkers right up near, if not the top of the list.
    I don't know if they think bicycles "don't matter" since bikes are
    smaller than cars, or if they just don't visually register the
    presence of oncoming bicycles. And a lot of 'em underestimate
    the speeds and stopping distances of bikes.


    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    -- Nothing is safe from me.
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  8. bill

    bill Guest

    Tom Keats wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Ziactrice" <[email protected]> writes:
    > >
    > > How do you rank the most common dangers you encounter by risk? Meaning
    > > not just severity (cars!) but frequency (kids!).

    >
    > Well, I'd put jaywalkers right up near, if not the top of the list.
    > I don't know if they think bicycles "don't matter" since bikes are
    > smaller than cars, or if they just don't visually register the
    > presence of oncoming bicycles. And a lot of 'em underestimate
    > the speeds and stopping distances of bikes.
    >


    I had a couple Jaywalkers sneer at me just the other day--walked out in
    front of me when I was about 2 seconds from them. I swerved and went
    behind them and they made "gosh" sounds. This is in a town in
    Connecticut (where walkers have absolute rights if they are in a
    crosswalk) where they were not in the crosswalk--they were just too
    lazy to either (a) wait for traffic to pass or (b) walk an extra 30
    yards to get to the crosswalk.
     
  9. Bill Baka

    Bill Baka Guest

    bill wrote:
    > Tom Keats wrote:
    >> In article <[email protected]>,
    >> "Ziactrice" <[email protected]> writes:
    >>> How do you rank the most common dangers you encounter by risk? Meaning
    >>> not just severity (cars!) but frequency (kids!).

    >> Well, I'd put jaywalkers right up near, if not the top of the list.
    >> I don't know if they think bicycles "don't matter" since bikes are
    >> smaller than cars, or if they just don't visually register the
    >> presence of oncoming bicycles. And a lot of 'em underestimate
    >> the speeds and stopping distances of bikes.
    >>

    >
    > I had a couple Jaywalkers sneer at me just the other day--walked out in
    > front of me when I was about 2 seconds from them. I swerved and went
    > behind them and they made "gosh" sounds. This is in a town in
    > Connecticut (where walkers have absolute rights if they are in a
    > crosswalk) where they were not in the crosswalk--they were just too
    > lazy to either (a) wait for traffic to pass or (b) walk an extra 30
    > yards to get to the crosswalk.
    >

    You could have always used the football move and straight armed one in
    the throat, clothes lined him. That would have put a stop to that as
    long as it didn't take you off the bike and you would have 2 to deal
    with. I have an excess of adrenalin, and it comes out in the presence of
    idiots.
    Not for everyone.
    Bill Baka
     
  10. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:

    > You could have always used the football move and straight armed one in
    > the throat, clothes lined him.


    Besides being dangerous to the rider, that's a pretty harsh
    and excessive approach that could inflict a hell of a lot
    more injury than is deserved or warranted. In fact, I'd
    say it would smack of Road Rage.

    There's already more than enough of people hurtin' other people
    going on in the world.

    A fair fight is one thing, but something that's tantamount
    to a sucker punch is ... sans honeur.

    > That would have put a stop to that as
    > long as it didn't take you off the bike and you would have 2 to deal
    > with. I have an excess of adrenalin, and it comes out in the presence of
    > idiots.


    I doubt the adrenalin excuse would be accepted in court.

    > Not for everyone.


    Certainly not for me.


    cheers,
    Tom

    --
    -- Nothing is safe from me.
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  11. Bill Baka

    Bill Baka Guest

    Tom Keats wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Bill Baka <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    >> You could have always used the football move and straight armed one in
    >> the throat, clothes lined him.

    >
    > Besides being dangerous to the rider, that's a pretty harsh
    > and excessive approach that could inflict a hell of a lot
    > more injury than is deserved or warranted. In fact, I'd
    > say it would smack of Road Rage.
    >
    > There's already more than enough of people hurtin' other people
    > going on in the world.
    >
    > A fair fight is one thing, but something that's tantamount
    > to a sucker punch is ... sans honeur.
    >
    >> That would have put a stop to that as
    >> long as it didn't take you off the bike and you would have 2 to deal
    >> with. I have an excess of adrenalin, and it comes out in the presence of
    >> idiots.

    >
    > I doubt the adrenalin excuse would be accepted in court.
    >
    >> Not for everyone.

    >
    > Certainly not for me.
    >
    >
    > cheers,
    > Tom
    >

    My only excuse is my age and I am way tired of smart assed teen aged
    jerks in groups.
    Road rage probably defines it.
    Bill
     
  12. Ziactrice wrote:
    >
    > How do you rank the most common dangers you encounter by risk? Meaning
    > not just severity (cars!) but frequency (kids!). I'm not yet riding on
    > the Real Roads, but when I do I suppose I'll be missing that nasty
    > little dog in comparison to the traffic.


    According to the most prominent book dealing with this subject,
    _Effective Cycling_ by John Forester, here are the rough figures for
    causes of bike injuries to club cyclists ... all reported injuries, and
    "serious" injuries (although if you track down the actual research
    data, you'll see the definition of "serious" is rather low):


    Percent all Percent serious
    Falls 50% 31%

    Car-bike
    collisions 17% 26%

    Bike- bike
    collisions 17% 13%

    Bike-dog
    collisions 8% 10%

    All other 8% 15%

    For the record, I'm trusting my penciled-in notes for the "Serious"
    figures. I've got the original paper here, but it's buried.

    - Frank Krygowski
     
  13. Jack Kessler

    Jack Kessler Guest

    First thing to do is to get over the question of whose fault it is, and how
    big a moron the owner is. The object is to not fall of the bike or get
    bitten. You did the exact right thing for not falling off. When you hear
    or see Spot tearing off you, immediately dismount and put the bicycle
    between you and the darling doggie. I had been then going through a two
    part routine. The first part was to shout at the dog, to help him get over
    the idea that you are afraid of him and therefore someone he can bite with
    impunity. This will often get the dog to stop at a distance and bark
    threateningly. The problem with this situation is that the dog will resume
    his attack and from a lot closer if you attempt to remount and ride away.
    Which means that you have to drive him away. I used to keep a 20" long
    one-inch thick dowel on the down tube of my bike. I would brandish this and
    RUN toward the dog shouting loudly and angrily. This would generally
    convince the dog that he had an appointment somewhere else that needed
    immediate attending to, and run off.

    The problem with this approach is that it is strenuous and does not
    condition the dog to not do it again. I now have a spray bottle of
    full-strength ammonia in my bottle cage. I can put it on Fido from about 15
    feet and the closer he gets the denser a dose he gets. I have not had
    occasion to use it yet. My theory is that a nose and eyes full of ammonia
    will condition Fido to regard all bicyclists as dangerous and to be avoided,
    and not just the one that drove him away once.

    "Ziactrice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >I did a 55 minute training ride this evening, just shaking into adult
    > bicycling still. I've gotten in about three weeks of riding so far. Two
    > weeks back, I put stirrups on the pedals, because of an old ACL injury
    > - finally getting used to them.
    >
    > So how did I wind up dumping myself in the grass, you ask? Dog. In
    > fact, got charged three times by the same dog, cussed out by the owner
    > of the dog because I made the mistake of trying to herd the nasty
    > little guy back to his even nastier owner (not the dog's fault his
    > owner is a moron, I figure) because she thought I was 'attacking' her
    > dog with my bike. Ummm, yeah, you can't even catch up with the dog in
    > your tennies, you think I can in bike cleats?
    >
    > So, I get cussed, dog eventually loses interest in person standing
    > behind bike telling him authoritatively he is a 'bad dog', 'sit', and
    > 'go home!' (not that he listened), I ride slowly off, watching. Sure
    > enough, he loops around owner and owner's kids, comes back for more
    > fun. I manage to ward him off, but in process, go down in the grass. No
    > injuries, 'cept my pride. Owner left behind in the interim. Dog goes
    > off to another street. I cycle back to owner, tell her 'charged me
    > again, dumped me this time, now he's over on (nearby street's name).'
    > Ride off while owner is gaping because I came back to tell her where
    > her lost dog was.
    >
    > How do you rank the most common dangers you encounter by risk? Meaning
    > not just severity (cars!) but frequency (kids!). I'm not yet riding on
    > the Real Roads, but when I do I suppose I'll be missing that nasty
    > little dog in comparison to the traffic.
    >
    > Zia
    >
     
  14. Jack Kessler

    Jack Kessler Guest

    "A spam midden" - what a great phrase! Kudos.

    "Tom Keats" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Ziactrice" <[email protected]> writes:
    >>
    >> How do you rank the most common dangers you encounter by risk? Meaning
    >> not just severity (cars!) but frequency (kids!).

    >
    > Well, I'd put jaywalkers right up near, if not the top of the list.
    > I don't know if they think bicycles "don't matter" since bikes are
    > smaller than cars, or if they just don't visually register the
    > presence of oncoming bicycles. And a lot of 'em underestimate
    > the speeds and stopping distances of bikes.
    >
    >
    > cheers,
    > Tom
    >
    > --
    > -- Nothing is safe from me.
    > Above address is just a spam midden.
    > I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca
     
  15. SlowRider

    SlowRider Guest

    Scott L wrote:
    > Why would anyone train on a multi-use path? The one
    > I'm most familiar with is overrun with kindergarteners
    > on bikes, college students rollerblading, iPodded
    > joggers, construction equipment, neighbors talking, . . .
    > Training on it seems nothing short of remarkably foolish
    > to me.


    Training on a bike path might indeed be nuts, but I said nothing about
    training. I use the bike path as a conduit to bypass some dangerous
    intersections on the way to my favorite roads. It's where I do the
    warm-up/recovery part of my ride, and amounts to barely 2-3 miles each
    way.

    However, it's nowhere near as crowded as the one you describe. Yikes,
    if it were that overrun with people/equipment I might not use it at
    all.


    -JR
     
  16. Add those jackass roller bladers who love to skate with thier back
    toward you.
     
  17. Bill Baka wrote:
    > bill wrote:
    > > Tom Keats wrote:
    > >> In article <[email protected]>,
    > >> "Ziactrice" <[email protected]> writes:
    > >>> How do you rank the most common dangers you encounter by risk? Meaning
    > >>> not just severity (cars!) but frequency (kids!).
    > >> Well, I'd put jaywalkers right up near, if not the top of the list.
    > >> I don't know if they think bicycles "don't matter" since bikes are
    > >> smaller than cars, or if they just don't visually register the
    > >> presence of oncoming bicycles. And a lot of 'em underestimate
    > >> the speeds and stopping distances of bikes.
    > >>

    > >
    > > I had a couple Jaywalkers sneer at me just the other day--walked out in
    > > front of me when I was about 2 seconds from them. I swerved and went
    > > behind them and they made "gosh" sounds. This is in a town in
    > > Connecticut (where walkers have absolute rights if they are in a
    > > crosswalk) where they were not in the crosswalk--they were just too
    > > lazy to either (a) wait for traffic to pass or (b) walk an extra 30
    > > yards to get to the crosswalk.
    > >

    > You could have always used the football move and straight armed one in
    > the throat, clothes lined him. That would have put a stop to that as
    > long as it didn't take you off the bike and you would have 2 to deal
    > with. I have an excess of adrenalin, and it comes out in the presence of
    > idiots.
    > Not for everyone.
    > Bill Baka


    There is a junior-high near where I live and sometimes some of the kids
    just step out into the road to cross and meander across in a loud
    obnoxious group, obviously some sort of rebellious power-play to force
    motorists to stop for them. There is a crosswalk about 10 meters away.
    I was a stupid teenager once too, so usually I cut them some slack when
    I am in my car. But when some kids who look like they wished they lived
    in an inner city instead of the affluent suburb they do live in try to
    act tough by stepping in front of me to shuffle across the street when
    I am on my bike, I have more than once thrown a shoulder into one of
    them.

    But my vote for the most dangerous obstacle is dogs on those
    spring-loaded wind up super long leashes. They just run crazy all over
    the place and their owners are not aware they are risking strangulation
    for thier dog by means of a speeding cyclist.

    Joseph
     
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