Most important athlete of all-time?

[House]

The point is, LA has only done this in the US. There is an enormous amount of the world that isn't the US.

Pele was entertaining player on the field and a dynamic personality off it. That, and the fact that football (what most of the world calls football) is played in every country in the world (in many it is like a religion) would put him way ahead of LA as far as world importance goes because of the positive effect he has had on billions around the world.

How, because every kid in every third world country would know of him and dream that they could be a Pele too. You only have to look at the skills of kids kicking rolled up banana leaves around every little African village to see that.

Nothing against LA, but he is not widely enough known to be in the competition of most impotant athlete of all time.

You honestly think that Pele being good at soccer makes him more important worldwide then someone who has raised huge amounts of money and awareness for cancer research? As I said I love Pele, but he merely brought a game to the world, Lance has done so much more. To deny what he has done affects the world is like denying that he has won 6 Tours. Do some research and you will see what i mean. If you want to say someone else is more important because you think importance is popularity that's fine, but to say that Lance has no worldwide affect is just ignorance or hatred. In the end it comes down to one question: Which is more important a kid doing some cool tricks with a ball or a kid surviving cancer and getting to grow up?

 

[Chris_E]

I shouldn't really bag the poms, but how does that 1 world title compensate for the rest of your country's sporting screw-ups?!

Let's see their sporting achievements:
Number of years since a pom won Wimbledon or any Grand Slam? Too many to count.
Number of years since the poms won the Ashes? Countless.
Years since the poms won a cricket world cup? Ages.
Years since the poms won Davis Cup? Has that ever happened?
Amount of times poms won America's cup? 0, but 1 each for Aus & NZ.
Pom swimming world titles that weren't won as a result of Aus & US being disqualified? Almost never.
Pom cyclists in the Pro Tour? A lot less than any other country.

The list could go on forever. Enjoy your country's one little victory, because they are few and far between.

i knew someone would bite

 

[limerickman]

You honestly think that Pele being good at soccer makes him more important worldwide then someone who has raised huge amounts of money and awareness for cancer research? As I said I love Pele, but he merely brought a game to the world, Lance has done so much more. To deny what he has done affects the world is like denying that he has won 6 Tours. Do some research and you will see what i mean. If you want to say someone else is more important because you think importance is popularity that's fine, but to say that Lance has no worldwide affect is just ignorance or hatred. In the end it comes down to one question: Which is more important a kid doing some cool tricks with a ball or a kid surviving cancer and getting to grow up?

Pele has raised a lot of money for charity.
Pele has worked for years with UNESCO and UNICEF.
Pele has also helped to raise awareness of testicular cancer.

So to say Pele hasn't had a worldwide effect outside of actually playing the game is incorrect.

I tell you something.
I was in a pub recently and a girl waiting for her drink asked the barman about his yellow wrist band.
The barman replied that he wore the wristband cause it was a fashion statement.
The girl (a fellow cyclist) asked him if he knew the origin of the wristband.
He said and I quote "I haven't a f@@@@@ clue - I only wear it cause everyone else is wearing them".
That'll tell you how well known Lance Armstrong is in certain parts
(and I don't post that anecdote to flame you - I'm just pointing out the reality of LA awareness there is out there).

 

[House]

Pele has raised a lot of money for charity.
Pele has worked for years with UNESCO and UNICEF.
Pele has also helped to raise awareness of testicular cancer.

So to say Pele hasn't had a worldwide effect outside of actually playing the game is incorrect.

I tell you something.
I was in a pub recently and a girl waiting for her drink asked the barman about his yellow wrist band.
The barman replied that he wore the wristband cause it was a fashion statement.
The girl (a fellow cyclist) asked him if he knew the origin of the wristband.
He said and I quote "I haven't a f@@@@@ clue - I only wear it cause everyone else is wearing them".
That'll tell you how well known Lance Armstrong is in certain parts
(and I don't post that anecdote to flame you - I'm just pointing out the reality of LA awareness there is out there).

Fair enough about Pele, but it is not as publicised as Lance because of the fact Lance is a star in this modern age. Merely from a public standpoint I would put people like Zidane and Beckham ahead of Pele simply because of the accessability of them around the world vs. when Pele was at his peak.

You anecdote proves nothing, that happens with anything that becomes fashionable. I'll bet I could find someone in every country in the world who hasn't heard of each of the people named on this thread so far. Is Lance THE most important athlete of all-time? By my definition he is without a doubt one of the top few because of what he has done with his success. Very few people in this world haven't been personally touched by cancer and one day if it is eradicated a big thanks will go to his fundraising. I don't consider being well known as being important.

 

[mitosis]

I think Mark Spitz deserves to be in the list.
He did bring swimming to a new level and I well recall rooting for him as a youngster in Munich in 1972.
It was a fantastic performance.

Michael Jordan's name doesn't resonate with me as strongly, I've got to say.
But that's just me.
I know of his popularity in the USA.
But I think Spitz name resonates more strongly.
Just my view.

Yeah maybe Mark Spitz. His name still comes up every time they have world championships and olympics.

 

[mitosis]

By my definition he is without a doubt one of the top few because of what he has done with his success.

Top few in the US. Relatively unknown in the rest of the world compared with any football star.

 

[House]

Top few in the US. Relatively unknown in the rest of the world compared with any football star.

Fine, whatever. Apparently you can't read.

 

[mitosis]

Fine, whatever. Apparently you can't read.

So what's being able to read got to do with it. I've never claimed on this forum that I could read.

Just for the record, I can.

I can think too.

But I can tell you've had enough. I'll find someone else to debate.

 

[ausgirl]

I think the word - important - is the sticking point here.

What is the definition of important ?

Is it - increasing the awareness of the sport on a worldwide stage ?
Is it - improving the overall standard within the sport at a given time ?
Is it - cpaturing the imagination of people who do not necessarily follow a given
sport ?

I think the combination of all of the above, predicated my selection of
Donald Bradman as the most important athlete.

Limerickman, i like your way of looking at the idea of important. If you use those criteria though, each sport will come up with a couple of names of people who fit those criteria. I mean every sport, from soccer to cycling to table tennis or snooker probably has people who have done those things to some extent. That means the list of people who could be considered for the title of most important athlete of all time is going to be pretty huge!

 

[limerickman]

Limerickman, i like your way of looking at the idea of important. If you use those criteria though, each sport will come up with a couple of names of people who fit those criteria. I mean every sport, from soccer to cycling to table tennis or snooker probably has people who have done those things to some extent. That means the list of people who could be considered for the title of most important athlete of all time is going to be pretty huge!

I agree with you.

I just thought I would define how I would interpret "important" with regard to the question.
Just from reading the replies so far, there are different ways of interpreting the
word "important".

it all makes for interesting reading.

 

[limerickman]

Fair enough about Pele, but it is not as publicised as Lance because of the fact Lance is a star in this modern age. Merely from a public standpoint I would put people like Zidane and Beckham ahead of Pele simply because of the accessability of them around the world vs. when Pele was at his peak.

You anecdote proves nothing, that happens with anything that becomes fashionable. I'll bet I could find someone in every country in the world who hasn't heard of each of the people named on this thread so far. Is Lance THE most important athlete of all-time? By my definition he is without a doubt one of the top few because of what he has done with his success. Very few people in this world haven't been personally touched by cancer and one day if it is eradicated a big thanks will go to his fundraising. I don't consider being well known as being important.

I think my ancedote does prove something.
It proves that your contention about LA's fame being widespread, is wrong.
In commercial terms, very few know that the wristband is his innovation on this side of the world.
People think it's a fashion accessory and nothing more.
The fact of the matter is that LA is not well known outside of the USA.

I don't say that to try to score a point over you - it is the simple fact of the matter.

In terms of sport, cycling and cyclists are not well known.
In this country, even after producing great cyclists like Roche and Kelly, most people if asked to name the most famous cyclist could probably only think of Merckx.
Hinault, Indurain, LeMond, Armstrong name's mean nothing to the great unwashed.
Throw in the fact that cycling's notoreity is miniscule compared to soccer, tennis, F1, rugby, LA has even less chance to be recognised by the wider public on a worldwide stage.

None of this takes away from the fact that LA is widely known in the USA.
Nor does it mitigate the fact that he has raised a lot of money, which is very commendable.
It does show that, within the context of this discussion, LA (and Eddy Merckx
to a lesser extent) perform in a minority sport and thus will enjoy less recognition afforded to those in more high profile sports.

 

[House]

Fine, you go on thinking your little anecdote proves you right, whatever, it's not worth arguing with an extraordinarily closed minded person like you...and i don't just base that on this thread, but every one I have seen you in.

 

[mitosis]

Fine, you go on thinking your little anecdote proves you right, whatever, it's not worth arguing with an extraordinarily closed minded person like you...and i don't just base that on this thread, but every one I have seen you in.

I've always found Limerickman to be informed and fair, far from closed minded. His posts are usually well thought out and worth reading.

 

[limerickman]

I've always found Limerickman to be informed and fair, far from closed minded. His posts are usually well thought out and worth reading.

Thanks Mit.

 

[chipman]

When your talking about the Most important athlete of all time there can only be one answer..... And that answer is Jackie Robinson. End of story! Case shut!

 

[mitosis]

When your talking about the Most important athlete of all time there can only be one answer..... And that answer is Jackie Robinson. End of story! Case shut!

In an attempt to keep the debate logical it must be added that the same applies to Jackie Robinson as applies to LA - but more so.

According to the search I made he was a great baseballer. A sport played in less countries and with fewer followers than even cycling.

You could always nominate him for MIAOAT for the US. Maybe he'll win.

Then we can put him up against all the other nominations from around the world in the MIAOAT for the world.

But you'd better hope for at least half the judges from the US because those from other countries will have never heard of him.

 

[Jon Packard]

But you'd better hope for at least half the judges from the US because those from other countries will have never heard of him.

I would think in J. Robinson's case, fame isn't really important. He broke down racial barriers, and that impacted all sports.

 

[meehs]

I've always found Limerickman to be informed and fair, far from closed minded. His posts are usually well thought out and worth reading.

I agree! I've always found Limerickman to be a very objective and well informed poster.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and the very purpose of forums like this is to share those opinions with others. I don't understand why some folks get so worked-up over it.

 

[Lonnie Utah]

Jessie Owens. Took it to the third riche in their own house. For a African American to win a gold while the Furer watched, was quite a statement from a sporting a political point of view.

L

 

[Hypnospin]

true, this poll was for most important. this is why ali would get the vote. at the time, social equality, civil rights, athletes from all arenas making political statements regarding racism, poverty and war...

these are the things that bring ali into the limelight of course in addition to his domination of boxing.

he and his his political counterparts of the time, malcom, king, carmichael, panthers, protesters, and college students were responsible for bringing attention to issues of social justice and matters significant to human rights.
we have lost ground since then. idealism seems to have waned in the face of misguided patriotism and blind acceptance of the current goverment. but this is changing as reality sets in here in our backyard.

"me go over there and fight?, i aint got nothing against no viet cong" -ali

issues such as poverty draft, socioeconomic exploitation, environmental disregard, poor academics, untold squandering of tax money for benefit of the minority, lack of justice for those responsible for military atrocities under the guise of fighting terrorism, i mean liberation, er, no, democracy i guess, profit for the few valued over humanitarianism for the many, flagrant violation of international laws, disdain for the us in world opinion, these are among issues that an athlete of today would have to tackle to be in alis' league...

"you can't bogart the world" rapper chuck d.

I would think in J. Robinson's case, fame isn't really important. He broke down racial barriers, and that impacted all sports.