Most tasteless jersey ...

[Van Hoorebeeck]

you are correct. fonctionnaries at information booths treat everyone like that. if people interpret
that as anti-americanism they are wrong. it's a cultural thing.

It's the same whether you need info, documents, ... anywhere. Dealing with Western European
bureaucracies is about taking the right , bowing down approach, and show respect for the system.
Americans and most other foreigners make the mistake of trying to get what they want by being
assertive and push harder. That ends all hope of a positive outcome.

That's the caricature. It still exists widely, but of course you will run into cooperating people
now and then who treat you as a customer . it changes slowly.

 

[G. Focker]

warren <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<190620032101531015%[email protected]>...
> You mean you went to France and didn't know how to ask a simple question in French? That's rude
> and presumptious. You got what you deserved. Have more respect for the country you're visiting and
> learn at least a few words of the language > -WG

Uh, Kind like we have expect the many illegal hispanic immigrants to learn english so much that
we've began changing some street signs and most small signs to bi-lingual? Or how we make excuses
for our own poor education and create optional languages like ebonics. HE never said he made no
effort to learn any phrase in french, he simply related an experience. Seems like you're the one
being presumtuious and maybe even a little nieve. Focker

 

[Jay Hill]

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:40:39 +0200, Jonathan v.d. Sluis wrote:
>
>>Where I live, I regurarly am spoken to in english...people assume I don't speak dutch even
>>without asking.
>
> At first I thought they assumed because you're not Dutch and they can tell by looking at you, but
> then I realized what you meant. Sorry.
>
Can you tell me what he meant?

--
A. Top posters
B. What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

 

[Ilan Vardi]

"Stan Cox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Robert McMillen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > and the award goes to Nashbar
> >
> http://www.nashbar.com/profile_moreimages.cfm?category=137&subcategory=1207& sku=9034&brand=
> >
> >
>
> Now thats one jersey I wouldnt wear in France.

Funny you should say that, because I was just about to post a message about the fact that the frogs
seem to be completely oblivious to jerseys. In the past 5 years, I don't think anyone has ever
noticed what jersey I was wearing, in particular, that they were mostly USA club jerseys, as could
be deduced from the fact that they would just jabber happily away to me in French, without ever once
asking me about cycling abroad.

Moreover, the obliviousness (is that a word?) is quite remarkable. At least once, I went over to a
guy sporting a Stars and Stripes Jersey (a real one, not the Belgian Brooklyn jersey) and started
speaking in English, and he just looked at me in complete incomprehension. It reminds me now of the
scene in the movie "Guys and Dolls" in which Sky Masterson makes a bet with Nathan Detroit about
what colour tie the latter is wearing. Oh, and to make things even weirder, that guy wore the US
jersey during the Iraq war.

I've been wondering whether this is just a French phenomenon. On at least two occasions, I've cycled
next to Americans here in Paris, and they have been unable to figure out that I may have lived in
the US, despite my US club jersey.

I am stressing the "club jersey" aspect, as this gives strong indication of some connexion with the
club in question, as opposed to a professional jersey which, in almost all cases, the rider has
bought independently in some store.

-ilan

 

[Ilan Vardi]

"Jim Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> The one time I was in Paris, I asked the woman at the airport information booth were I could
> change currency. She blew smoke in my face and said (in English) that she did not speak English.
> This was a woman working in the information booth at a major international airport and she was
> openly hostile to Amercians. Gimme that Jersey and I'll wear it!

You are correct that this is rude behaviour, but it is also representative of the French attitude
towards their jobs, which is that you don't have to hide your current emotional state in order to
please the customer. This attitude is a direct consequence of the fact that most people have
absolute job security. Compare this to the USA, where most people in the service industry, e.g.,
waiters, get sacked if they do one thing the boss doesn't like. I prefer the French system, and in
any case, I was fed up with forced servility I observed in the US.

So, it is quite likely that this person would have been just as rude to a French person. I believe
that English has made big inroads in France, and my father tells me that Parisians are much more
willing to speak English to tourists than 40 years ago. I have also been quite impressed by the
amount of English signs in trains and subway stations, especially compared to (legally) bilingual
Canada. The Paris subway will usually boradcast PA make announcements in French and English.

I don't believe that tourists should be compelled to learn the local language, but I think most
people would agree that starting a query with a local phrase is good form. Many people get annoyed
because tourists will immediately start speaking to them in English. Of course, you should expect
this if you're working in an information booth... But such things happen everywhere. Try calling up
information in some Canadian city speaking the other official language and see what happens. Last
time I did that, the operator hung up on me when I refused to speak her language.

-ilan

 

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:16:19 -0500, Jay Hill wrote:
>Can you tell me what he meant?

That even though we're in Holland, we are Dutch and speak Dutch, foreigners almost always start
talking to us in English assuming we will voluntarily and as a matter of course talk English with
them, not Dutch.

BTW, it's not a very strange assumption. But more polite would be if Johnny would start out with
"Meneer, mag ik u wat vragen in het Engels?".

 

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On 20 Jun 2003 04:28:39 -0700, Ilan Vardi wrote:
> they would just jabber happily away to me in French, without ever once asking me about
> cycling abroad.
>
> I went over to a guy sporting a Stars and Stripes Jersey [...] and started speaking in English,
> and he just looked at me in complete incomprehension.

Here in Holland too, nobody ever starts to speak in Basque to me

 

[Robert Chung]

"Ilan Vardi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Jim Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > The one time I was in Paris, I asked the woman at the airport
information
> > booth were I could change currency. She blew smoke in my face and said
(in
> > English) that she did not speak English. This was a woman working in the information booth at a
> > major international airport and she was openly hostile to Amercians. Gimme that Jersey and I'll
> > wear it!
>
> You are correct that this is rude behaviour, but it is also representative of the French attitude
> towards their jobs, which is that you don't have to hide your current emotional state in order to
> please the customer. This attitude is a direct consequence of the fact that most people have
> absolute job security. Compare this to the USA, where most people in the service industry, e.g.,
> waiters, get sacked if they do one thing the boss doesn't like.

As G.W. Bush was quoted as saying, "the problem with the French is they have no word for
entrepreneur."

 

[Lindsay]

On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 15:47:29 -0500, "Robert McMillen" <[email protected]> wrote:

>No, the USA has not won a damn thing. LeMond and Armstrong - with a multinational support team -
>have won 7 of the last 17 Tours.

The 99 team was a close as we've come to seeing a 'national' team win the TdF in a very long time.
More importantly winning with a several riders having never ridden in the tour before.

If any French rider for any team had won the TdF just once in that time frame they would have a
national holiday in France. Hell, if a French rider could just win a stage ...

Lindsay
----------------------------
"One of the annoying things about believing in free will and individual responsibility is the
difficulty of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And when you do find somebody, it's
remarkable how often his picture turns up on your driver's license."

P.J. O'Rourke

 

[Lindsay]

On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:13:55 GMT, Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote:

> In the early eighties I did see a shirt that was done in the style of band tour t-shirts that
> read "Adolf ****** European Tour 1939-1945" on the front. On the back, it had a list of the
> various countries that they, um, "visited".

Check this one out:

http://store.yahoo.com/victorystore00/buwotot.html

Lindsay
----------------------------
"One of the annoying things about believing in free will and individual responsibility is the
difficulty of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And when you do find somebody, it's
remarkable how often his picture turns up on your driver's license."

P.J. O'Rourke

 

[G]

Pete <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Tezza" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Robert McMillen wrote:
> > > and the award goes to Nashbar
> http://www.nashbar.com/profile_moreimages-
> > >
> .cfm?category=137&subcategory=1207&sku=9034&brand=http://www.nashbar.co-
> > > m/profile_moreimages.cfm?category=137&subcategory=1207&sku=9034&brand=
> >
> >
> >
> > "Oh,,,, why does the rest of the world hate us so much?"
>

>
> Pete

 

[Van Hoorebeeck]

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" schreef:

>
> Where I live, I regurarly am spoken to in english...people assume I don't speak dutch even
> without asking. Whatever happened to the simple phrasebook? It would be so nice if the tourists
> just tried.

I understand that feels annoying. As if a certain servility is evident as their presence generates
assets for your better-be-humble country.

Commuting by train I speak English, French, Spanish with tourists, asylum seekers, settled
immigrants, whatever. And it's no big deal, if the attitude is good. Then I'm glad to give some
explanations or listen to what they're up to.

And in my street I often have horrible times speaking my own language (elder people with thick
accents, immigrant children not very capable with Dutch yet).

 

[Morgan Fletcher]

"Stan Cox" <[email protected]> writes:
> There are idiots in every country. Bear in mind that the French think that Parisienes (spelling)
> are rude. BTW as a brit what is a "Cutters" t shirt.

Cutters was the relay team that raced the "Little Indy 500" in the '70s movie _Breaking Away_.

_Breaking Away_ that really sold bicycle racing to the American public. It tells the story of a
group of four teenage friends, outcasts, one of whom is in love with the roadie lifestyle and an
Italophile, and naive. He enters college instead of becoming a road racer full time. The college he
enters has an historic team-relay bicycle race held on a cinder track using school-supplied
fixed-gear bikes. (This part is true, see "Little Indy 500".)

Part of the reason they are outcasts is because they come from working-class families, and in this
town the working class worked in the quarries, cutting limestone. This industry has died out,
leaving the town depressed. They form a team and choose the team name "Cutters". Only one can really
ride a bike, the rest are misfits who don't have the skills, and are also challenged by fatalistic
attitudes. The race favorites are a well-honed team from an upper-crusty fraternity. Of course they
win, after a long and harrowing race. It's a good underdog flick.

USPS rider Christian Vande Velde's dad John played a member of the Cinzano team that puts a pump
in the young racer's spokes during a road race in the movie. The movie also launched Dennis
Quaid's career.

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0078902

Morgan

 

[Clay Tidwell]

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<
> It would be so nice if the tourists just tried.

Yeah...the French love it when Americans try to speak their language.

 

[Todd Kuzma]

I assume that most Americans here have experienced the joy of dealing with civil servants in the US.
My, how courteous they can be! Certainly not like those rude French!

Todd Kuzma

 

[Steven Bornfeld]

G wrote:
> Tezza <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>"Oh,,,, why does the rest of the world hate us so much?"
>>
>>
>>that jersey design says it all - a little humility goes an awful long way, particularly when you
>>are on top!!! Tezza
>
>
> Y'know, I can't speak for the French, but if a yank was walking around Australia with US
> flag/Australia equivalent, I can't honestly say how long he would survive for..
>
> Imagine a Japanese Tourist in the USA in the 1980's wearing a map of the USA with the
> rising sun....

At least they paid cash.

Steve

 

[Steven Bornfeld]

warren wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Jim Martin
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>What about the ugly french?
>>
>>The one time I was in Paris, I asked the woman at the airport information booth were I could
>>change currency. She blew smoke in my face and said (in English) that she did not speak English.
>>This was a woman working in the information booth at a major international airport and she was
>>openly hostile to Amercians. Gimme that Jersey and I'll wear it!
>
>
> You mean you went to France and didn't know how to ask a simple question in French? That's rude
> and presumptious. You got what you deserved. Have more respect for the country you're visiting and
> learn at least a few words of the language just like you'd expect a French person to do if they
> were visiting the US and asking you where the currency exchange was.
>
> -WG

I don't know. I'm in Brooklyn, and almost no one speaks English to me!

Steve

 

[Steven Bornfeld]

Robert Chung wrote:

(snip)

>
> As G.W. Bush was quoted as saying, "the problem with the French is they have no word for
> entrepreneur."
>
>

That's great! (true or not)

Steve

 

[Steven Bornfeld]

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:16:19 -0500, Jay Hill wrote:
>
>>Can you tell me what he meant?
>
>
> That even though we're in Holland, we are Dutch and speak Dutch, foreigners almost always start
> talking to us in English assuming we will voluntarily and as a matter of course talk English with
> them, not Dutch.
>
> BTW, it's not a very strange assumption. But more polite would be if Johnny would start out with
> "Meneer, mag ik u wat vragen in het Engels?".

Smile when you say that, Pardner!

Steve

 

[Kenny]

> The one time I was in Paris, I asked the woman at the airport information booth were I could
> change currency. She blew smoke in my face and said (in English) that she did not speak English.
> This was a woman working in the information booth at a major international airport and she was
> openly hostile to Amercians.

You got your point there. The chauvinisme of the french goes too far, especially when it comes to
speeking other languages. Because French is a language that is spoken in so many countries they
don't find it necesarry to learn other languages. French is the most important language in the world
to them. I'm pretty sensitive about that and i really get mad if a walloon here in belgium doesn't
even speak a few dutch words. But i guess speaking only their mother tongue is typical to the people
who speak one of the three world-languages: spanish, english and french. Although i think the french
excell in really not (trying to) understanding any other language. That's the advantage of speaking
a small language like dutch: you have to learn other languages which is very enriching.