Motor bikes on bridleways



A

al Mossah

Guest
Last year on a bridleway near Corsham in Wiltshire I saw a notice concerning
an application to convert the bridleway to a BOAT (By-way open to all
traffic). I registered an objection to the application with the local
council. The applicant was an organisation known as the Trail Riders
Federation.

In the latest Private Eye there is an article about this innocuous-sounding
organisation. The text is included below. In case my OCR isn't too good,
I've scanned the article here.
http://www.mossclan.co.uk/temp/trail_riders_fellowship.jpg

Worth watching out for on a rural bridleway near you.

"Down on the Farm

A CURIOUS episode in Wiltshire again highlights the strangely intimate
relationship which exists between council officials and the lobby group
which campaign for country footpaths and bridleways to be made accessible to
vehicles such as motorcycles, quad bikes and off-road 4x4s.



In recent years the bikers have caused increasing havoc on hundreds of such
"green lanes", and their aim is to get as many as possible "upgraded" from
RUPPs (roads used as public paths) from which vehicles are barred, to BOATS
(byways open to all traffic).

When a Mr Bill Riley applied to Wiltshire County Council for vehicles to use
a narrow, leafy "green lane" in West Grimstead, the villagers who enjoy
walking down the footpath were horrified. 4x4s would inevitably tear off the
branches of protected trees, gouge out the steep Banks and chum the
footpath's surface to mud. But officials of the council's rights-of=way
committee nodded through Mr Riley's application without even a site visit.



It then turned out that Mr Riley had a rather closer association with these
officials than had been clear. It seemed he had often put in such
applications before, either privately or representing the Trail Riders
Fellowship, a body innocuously described on the council website as promoting
the "conservation of heritage of green lanes". On its own website, however,
the TRF rather more honestly admits that it is for people who "enjoy
exploring green lanes by motor cycle". Mr Riley had also, it seemed, been
consulted by the council on such issues many times.



When council representatives were challenged on their relationship with Mr
Riley, the rights of way manager merely claimed that he "assists the council
as a voluntary researcher". The council's chief executive, Dr Keith
Robinson, denied even this, stating unequivocally that "Mr Riley is not
consulted by the council". The chairman of the regulatory committee,
however, was rather more forthright: Mr Riley is "consulted on every
application".



At this point Dr Robinson backtracked, explaining that Mr Riley was not
consulted in his "private capacity" but only as representing the Trail
Riders Fellowship. He refused to clarify the position further. A bemused
councillor commented that Mr Riley seemed to, be acting as "batsman, bowler
and wicketkeeper" all at once.



So enraged were the villagers by all these evasions and contradictions that
they complained to the local government Standards Board, which replied that,
since the decision to upgrade the lane had been made by officials, not
councillors, it was not their business. The Audit Commission also declined
to get involved, saying that such matters were the responsibility of the
local government ombudsman. He replied that it was not in his remit either.
So they then wrote to the minister, Jim Knight, who also said it was the
responsibility of the ombudsman. When they went back yet again to the
ombudsman, quoting the minister, they were told the matter would now be
given "further consideration". Meanwhile, as one body of officials after
another passes the parcel, the villagers of West Grimstead grimly await the
day when the first convoy of 20 bikers makes its way down their green lane,
chewing up its grass and wild flowers into a sea of mud.

'Muckspreader'"

Private Eye, March 2006.
 
"al Mossah" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Last year on a bridleway near Corsham in Wiltshire I saw a notice
> concerning an application to convert the bridleway to a BOAT (By-way open
> to all traffic). I registered an objection to the application with the
> local council. The applicant was an organisation known as the Trail
> Riders Federation.


They're doing it all over the place - I saw long lane (Clapham to Selside)
has an application up, competing with the very successful ETRO there banning
motor vehicles. IIRC they've also got one for the narrower track from Feizor
to Austwick.

With any luck the YDNPA will keep on their current track - their ETROs have
resulted in significantly better track conditions, giving the lie to the
TRF's claims that it's agricultural traffic causing the damage. (an
impressive claim - most farmers round here use quad bikes with fairly wide
tyres, which won't leave the narrow trail of damage so typical of what's
happened round here.)

cheers,
clive
 
Clive George wrote:
> "al Mossah" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Last year on a bridleway near Corsham in Wiltshire I saw a notice
>> concerning an application to convert the bridleway to a BOAT (By-way
>> open to all traffic). I registered an objection to the application
>> with the local council. The applicant was an organisation known as
>> the Trail Riders Federation.

>
> They're doing it all over the place - I saw long lane (Clapham to
> Selside) has an application up, competing with the very successful ETRO
> there banning motor vehicles. IIRC they've also got one for the narrower
> track from Feizor to Austwick.


Might be worth alerting the CPRE on this one. They are quite good at
watching councils' activities for changes that destroy the
countryside, but they may not be aware of this problem.

Colin McKenzie
 
al Mossah wrote:
> Last year on a bridleway near Corsham in Wiltshire I saw a notice concerning
> an application to convert the bridleway to a BOAT (By-way open to all
> traffic). I registered an objection to the application with the local
> council. The applicant was an organisation known as the Trail Riders
> Federation.
>
> In the latest Private Eye there is an article about this innocuous-sounding
> organisation. The text is included below. In case my OCR isn't too good,
> I've scanned the article here.
> http://www.mossclan.co.uk/temp/trail_riders_fellowship.jpg
>
> Worth watching out for on a rural bridleway near you.
>
> "Down on the Farm
>
> A CURIOUS episode in Wiltshire again highlights the strangely intimate
> relationship which exists between council officials and the lobby group
> which campaign for country footpaths and bridleways to be made accessible to
> vehicles such as motorcycles, quad bikes and off-road 4x4s.
>
>
>
> In recent years the bikers have caused increasing havoc on hundreds of such
> "green lanes", and their aim is to get as many as possible "upgraded" from
> RUPPs (roads used as public paths) from which vehicles are barred, to BOATS
> (byways open to all traffic).
>
> When a Mr Bill Riley applied to Wiltshire County Council for vehicles to use
> a narrow, leafy "green lane" in West Grimstead, the villagers who enjoy
> walking down the footpath were horrified. 4x4s would inevitably tear off the
> branches of protected trees, gouge out the steep Banks and chum the
> footpath's surface to mud. But officials of the council's rights-of=way
> committee nodded through Mr Riley's application without even a site visit.
>
>
>
> It then turned out that Mr Riley had a rather closer association with these
> officials than had been clear. It seemed he had often put in such
> applications before, either privately or representing the Trail Riders
> Fellowship, a body innocuously described on the council website as promoting
> the "conservation of heritage of green lanes". On its own website, however,
> the TRF rather more honestly admits that it is for people who "enjoy
> exploring green lanes by motor cycle". Mr Riley had also, it seemed, been
> consulted by the council on such issues many times.
>
>
>
> When council representatives were challenged on their relationship with Mr
> Riley, the rights of way manager merely claimed that he "assists the council
> as a voluntary researcher". The council's chief executive, Dr Keith
> Robinson, denied even this, stating unequivocally that "Mr Riley is not
> consulted by the council". The chairman of the regulatory committee,
> however, was rather more forthright: Mr Riley is "consulted on every
> application".
>
>
>
> At this point Dr Robinson backtracked, explaining that Mr Riley was not
> consulted in his "private capacity" but only as representing the Trail
> Riders Fellowship. He refused to clarify the position further. A bemused
> councillor commented that Mr Riley seemed to, be acting as "batsman, bowler
> and wicketkeeper" all at once.
>
>
>
> So enraged were the villagers by all these evasions and contradictions that
> they complained to the local government Standards Board, which replied that,
> since the decision to upgrade the lane had been made by officials, not
> councillors, it was not their business. The Audit Commission also declined
> to get involved, saying that such matters were the responsibility of the
> local government ombudsman. He replied that it was not in his remit either.
> So they then wrote to the minister, Jim Knight, who also said it was the
> responsibility of the ombudsman. When they went back yet again to the
> ombudsman, quoting the minister, they were told the matter would now be
> given "further consideration". Meanwhile, as one body of officials after
> another passes the parcel, the villagers of West Grimstead grimly await the
> day when the first convoy of 20 bikers makes its way down their green lane,
> chewing up its grass and wild flowers into a sea of mud.
>
> 'Muckspreader'"
>
> Private Eye, March 2006.
>
>
>
>


All very interesting, and obviously rather dodgy proceedings, but more
important is what actual effect the decision had on the people using the
bridleway after the change to a BOAT. Often people get very irate
about these things, and then when it's all blown over, and nothing has
really changed, they wonder what all the fuss was about. Anyone like to
comment on the actual experiences of a change from bridleway to BOAT?


Mark
 
al Mossah came up with the following;:
> Last year on a bridleway near Corsham in Wiltshire I saw a notice
> concerning an application to convert the bridleway to a BOAT (By-way open
> to all traffic). I registered an objection to the application with the
> local council. The applicant was an organisation known as the Trail
> Riders Federation.


Good.

Many more bridleways could revert back to BOAT's and benefit more of the
population than they do at present.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
 
Clive George wrote:

>
> They're doing it all over the place - I saw long lane (Clapham to
> Selside) has an application up, competing with the very successful ETRO
> there banning motor vehicles. IIRC they've also got one for the narrower
> track from Feizor to Austwick.
>


Probably all related to the requirement of local authorities to form
Local Access Forums and produce Right of Way Improvement Plans which has
stimulated a wide range of RoW user groups.

If there is a Map Modification Order the authority is required by law to
send it to statutory consultees which include the CTC, the British Horse
Association and the Byways and Bridleways Trust with a 42 day
consultation period and its increasingly on the Public Rights of Way
section on Local Authority websites. The Ramblers Association maintain
a useful list of contacts at
http://www.ramblers.org.uk/info/contacts/links.html

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
 
in message <[email protected]>, Paul - ***
('[email protected]') wrote:

> al Mossah came up with the following;:
>> Last year on a bridleway near Corsham in Wiltshire I saw a notice
>> concerning an application to convert the bridleway to a BOAT (By-way
>> open
>> to all traffic). I registered an objection to the application with
>> the
>> local council. The applicant was an organisation known as the Trail
>> Riders Federation.

>
> Good.
>
> Many more bridleways could revert back to BOAT's and benefit more of
> the population than they do at present.


Benefit how? This is the tragedy of the commons, once again. People come
in from far away by motor vehicle, wreck the place, and go on next
weekend to wreck somewhere completely different. Unmetalled roads cannot
stand up to the weight or the horsepower of motor vehicles. And once a
footpath has been churned into a quagmire by half a dozen souped up
landrovers, while it may continue to be fun for the rich kids from the
cities with their landrovers with deep fording kits[1] and power
winches, it's not much use as a footpath any more.

The question isn't how many unmetalled roads motor vehicles should be
permitted to use, but how many metalled roads they should be excluded
from. Motor vehicles have wrecked enough of the country. Let us at least
preserve what little is left.

[1] Why is it you see far more deep fording kits in suburbia than you
ever do in the hills?

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; part time troll.
 
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:26:43 +0100, Simon Brooke
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>The question isn't how many unmetalled roads motor vehicles should be
>permitted to use, but how many metalled roads they should be excluded
>from. Motor vehicles have wrecked enough of the country. Let us at least
>preserve what little is left.
>


We have lost at least one local Audax route due to the "sporting" use
of 4x4s. David Lewis' Trefil Travail[1] used to go over a narrow lane
(Blackvein Road) from Cross Keys to Cwmfelinfach. This was not a
heavily used road as there are alternative roads more appropriate to
large motor vehicles. This was never a pristine lane, stones used to
fall out from the steep bank above it. Then 4x4 drivers discovered
it. Most of these are too large and before long the road surface
became covered in stones and it is no longer safe to ride a bike on.
The last time this route was used everybody walked down the hill. Very
nasty.

[1] The Trefil Trevail now has a revised route. Rides up the Taff
valley rather that the Sirhowy. Despite the Sirhowy being the more
scenic valley (very pretty in places) most people think the route has
been improved.
 
Simon Brooke came up with the following;:
> in message <[email protected]>, Paul - ***
> ('[email protected]') wrote:
>
>> al Mossah came up with the following;:
>>> Last year on a bridleway near Corsham in Wiltshire I saw a notice
>>> concerning an application to convert the bridleway to a BOAT (By-way
>>> open
>>> to all traffic). I registered an objection to the application with
>>> the
>>> local council. The applicant was an organisation known as the Trail
>>> Riders Federation.

>>
>> Good.
>>
>> Many more bridleways could revert back to BOAT's and benefit more of
>> the population than they do at present.

>
> Benefit how?


By allowing people to travel how they want to travel.

> This is the tragedy of the commons, once again. People come
> in from far away by motor vehicle, wreck the place, and go on next
> weekend to wreck somewhere completely different. Unmetalled roads cannot
> stand up to the weight or the horsepower of motor vehicles. And once a
> footpath has been churned into a quagmire by half a dozen souped up
> landrovers, while it may continue to be fun for the rich kids from the
> cities with their landrovers with deep fording kits[1] and power
> winches, it's not much use as a footpath any more.


The groups I ride and drive with don't 'wreck' any place. Indeed we are
also in the business (voluntarily) of conserving many places that walkers
have 'wrecked' from over-use. Our 4x4's are logistically helping to mend
many walks that are otherwise almost impossible to mend without hundreds and
hundreds of willing volunteers man-handling the materials required. I fear
that there simply aren't enough volunteers to do this. The fact that we
also use 4x4's recreationally is one reason I also campaign, in my small
way, to further open BOAT's etc..

> The question isn't how many unmetalled roads motor vehicles should be
> permitted to use, but how many metalled roads they should be excluded
> from. Motor vehicles have wrecked enough of the country. Let us at least
> preserve what little is left.


An opinion you have which I obviously don't share.

> [1] Why is it you see far more deep fording kits in suburbia than you
> ever do in the hills?


You obviously don't understand what the 'snorkel' kits are actually for,
which seems par for the course for much of the anti 4x4 lobby.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
 
"Paul - ***" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>> Benefit how?

>
> By allowing people to travel how they want to travel.


Play, not travel. At least be honest with yourself - motorbiking and 4x4ing
off-road isn't about travel, it's a recreational activity. As indeed is
mountain biking.

> The groups I ride and drive with don't 'wreck' any place.


I wish there were more like you. Round here there's not much problem with
4x4s - it's motorbikes which cause the damage I see every time I'm up in the
hills. The distinctive way a motorbike tyre cuts the grass - it only takes
one to make that mess. The fantail pattern of motorbike tracks coming out
from a gate - nice. The way they cut into and extend the end of ruts - mmm,
that's good for the trail, isn't it?

Yes, having hundreds of walkers does erode paths. In about the same way as
one motorbike does.

cheers,
clive
 
Paul - *** wrote:

>> Benefit how?

>
> By allowing people to travel how they want to travel.


There must be a balance. Would you be happy if a major airport was built
adjoining your house, on the grounds you would be allowing people to
travel how they want to travel?

> The groups I ride and drive with don't 'wreck' any place.


Without knowing who your groups are, I can't comment on the veracity of
that statement. However it is a fact that many people, be they in
groups or not, /do/ wreck places to the detriment of others. It's also
noticeable that when individuals are identified as having caused a
particular bit of damage, they are suddenly no longer members of, or
acting for, these groups...until the next time when a large group
membership is beneficial.

> Indeed we are
> also in the business (voluntarily) of conserving many places that
> walkers have 'wrecked' from over-use.


That does not permit you, or anyone else, to wreck some places because
you help "conserve" others; it is irrelevant. Just because I recycle
more than the average household does not entitle me to do a bit of
flytipping from time to time. You have bought too much into the
pollution-trading arguments of various governments.

>> [1] Why is it you see far more deep fording kits in suburbia than you
>> ever do in the hills?

>
> You obviously don't understand what the 'snorkel' kits are actually for,


Either they are for driving through deep water, or for posing. Which
is found more in suburbia - deep water fords, or pose-audiences?

R.
 
Around here (Peak District) we get convoys of lardarses in lard rovers
who have systematically destroyed many miles of green lanes which had
been quietly used by walkers, cyclists and farmers needing access,
without causing any problems for many years. The impact of trail bikes
is much less and arguably would be sustainable in moderation except on
all-grass surfaces. It's been quite recent - within the last 10 years
or less, and many tracks are now impassible except by lardrovers. These
moronic bastards should be banned. Instead the local authorities are
converting them to hard surfaces at great expense. This renders them
less attractive to the lardarses as there are fewer ruts and muddy
puddles but also makes them less attractive as quiet country lanes.
Nobody gains anything and much has been lost. I've heard the argument
re 'conservation' by 4x4 users but it's bollocks except in the rare
cicumstances where conservation requires lardrover access to convey
stone etc.

cheers

Jacob
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Around here (Peak District) we get convoys of lardarses in lard rovers
> who have systematically destroyed many miles of green lanes which had
> been quietly used by walkers, cyclists and farmers needing access,
> without causing any problems for many years. The impact of trail bikes
> is much less and arguably would be sustainable in moderation except on
> all-grass surfaces.


Round us its actually the farm vehicles which do all the damage and they
cannot be banned from their own land. There was a similar finding on
the notorious Ridgeway AFAIR. A TRO was put on it after restoration
work but they found it was actually the farm vehicles doing all the
churning up and not, as everyone thought, the Chelsea tractors

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
 
"Tony Raven" wrote ...
> Round us its actually the farm vehicles which do all the damage and they
> cannot be banned from their own land. There was a similar finding on the
> notorious Ridgeway AFAIR. A TRO was put on it after restoration work but
> they found it was actually the farm vehicles doing all the churning up and
> not, as everyone thought, the Chelsea tractors
>
> --
> Tony


Excuse the thread drift, but when was the Ridgeway restored? I recall trying
to cycle it in 2000 and being defeated by tire tracks that were just narrow
enough and deep enough that my pedals would clip the sides of the rut hard
enough to take me off the bike. Extremely wet, slippery grass and clay
didn't help, either.

I remember thinking that the Ridgeway would be a very scenic route if it
were dry and if it weren't for the deep ruts.
--
mark
 
in message <[email protected]>, Paul - ***
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Simon Brooke came up with the following;:
>>> Many more bridleways could revert back to BOAT's and benefit more of
>>> the population than they do at present.

>>
>> Benefit how?

>
> By allowing people to travel how they want to travel.
>
>> This is the tragedy of the commons, once again. People come
>> in from far away by motor vehicle, wreck the place, and go on next
>> weekend to wreck somewhere completely different. Unmetalled roads
>> cannot stand up to the weight or the horsepower of motor vehicles. And
>> once a footpath has been churned into a quagmire by half a dozen
>> souped up landrovers, while it may continue to be fun for the rich
>> kids from the cities with their landrovers with deep fording kits[1]
>> and power winches, it's not much use as a footpath any more.

>
> The groups I ride and drive with don't 'wreck' any place.


You may not - I can't tell (although I find it hard to believe). I have
this argument not infrequently with wildfowlers. They all say 'I am a
responsible wildfowler, therefore wildfowlers should be allowed to
continue to slaughter the geese'. There may be responsible wildfowlers;
I don't know. I know from the evidence that there are a lot of
irresponsible wildfowlers, and without having a warden follow each one
round all day it's impossible to tell which the rogues are.

So unless the special interest group in question can police themselves,
they should all be barred. And before you start saying this is like
cyclists cycling on the pavement, no it's not. Cyclists are not
permitted to cycle on the pavement, and we are not arguing that we
should be permitted.

>> [1] Why is it you see far more deep fording kits in suburbia than you
>> ever do in the hills?

>
> You obviously don't understand what the 'snorkel' kits are actually
> for, which seems par for the course for much of the anti 4x4 lobby.


I do indeed know what a deep fording kit is for, having at one time had
to use a deep ford regularly (there's a bridge there now, and I don't
live there any more). I also know the difference between a deep fording
kit and a raised intake, and I'd be interested to know what feature of
suburban driving makes either necessary.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; better than your average performing pineapple
 
in message <[email protected]>, Tony Raven
('[email protected]') wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
>> Around here (Peak District) we get convoys of lardarses in lard rovers
>> who have systematically destroyed many miles of green lanes which had
>> been quietly used by walkers, cyclists and farmers needing access,
>> without causing any problems for many years. The impact of trail bikes
>> is much less and arguably would be sustainable in moderation except on
>> all-grass surfaces.

>
> Round us its actually the farm vehicles which do all the damage and
> they cannot be banned from their own land.


This, of course, is true. And the ridiculous thing is that we as
taxpayers are actually paying farmers to do this; it doesn't seem to me
unreasonable that subsidies should be withdrawn from farmers who do
damage to the environment with heavy vehicles (actually, it doesn't seem
to me unreasonable that the subsidies should just be withdrawn, period).

But just because other people are doing it doesn't make it OK. The
Scottish Land Reform Act solution, which says in effect that you're
allowed to go anywhere provided you do it under your own power, seems to
me the right one.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and there was nothing we could do but wait
patiently for the RAC to arrive.
 
mark wrote:
>
> Excuse the thread drift, but when was the Ridgeway restored? I recall trying
> to cycle it in 2000 and being defeated by tire tracks that were just narrow
> enough and deep enough that my pedals would clip the sides of the rut hard
> enough to take me off the bike. Extremely wet, slippery grass and clay
> didn't help, either.
>
> I remember thinking that the Ridgeway would be a very scenic route if it
> were dry and if it weren't for the deep ruts.


There have been numerous attempts, none of which have really worked,
mostly involving rotavating the surface and recompacting it but
including tests of mixing cement powder in with the mud. Where they do
this they often put in TROs to allow the ground to recover but found
them churned up just the same. There are also now permanent seasonal
TROs in places. Thinking it was breaches of the TROs that were
continuing to damage the surface they found virtually no breaches but
plenty of farm vehicles doing the damage.

See
http://www.nationaltrail.co.uk/ridgeway/article.asp?PageId=3&ArticleId=21
for a recent TROs and http://makeashorterlink.com/?C3C222FDC for details
of some of the restoration work.


--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
 
Simon Brooke wrote:
>
> You may not - I can't tell (although I find it hard to believe). I have
> this argument not infrequently with wildfowlers. They all say 'I am a
> responsible wildfowler, therefore wildfowlers should be allowed to
> continue to slaughter the geese'. There may be responsible wildfowlers;
> I don't know. I know from the evidence that there are a lot of
> irresponsible wildfowlers, and without having a warden follow each one
> round all day it's impossible to tell which the rogues are.
>
> So unless the special interest group in question can police themselves,
> they should all be barred. And before you start saying this is like
> cyclists cycling on the pavement, no it's not. Cyclists are not
> permitted to cycle on the pavement, and we are not arguing that we
> should be permitted.
>


What about red lights then. A few here arguing that we should be
allowed to run them.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham
 

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