Motorist convicted of attacking cyclists

[Sam Huffman]

<[email protected]> writes:

> "Tom Arsenault" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > . The cyclist, much as most of us would do, gave him the universal signal to **** off.
> ....further....
>
> > What did this guy get for a pre-meditated attack on a somewhat defenseless person? $500 fine,
> > and recommendation for anger management counseling (he didn't have to go, it was just a
> > suggestion).
>
> The "universal signal" by the bicyclist is why this person only got a $500 fine. Think about that
> next time you flip the finger at a car. It is clearly meant to provoke the car. You know why some
> cars enjoy bothering bicyclist? Because they get a kick out of watching our knee jerk reactions.
> (flipping the finger, shouting et al). Best to just ignore them, even if they are in the wrong.

A friend of mine was riding home one evening when a Subaru passed him driving a little too
closely and beeping its horn. He vaguely saw a hand in the tinted rear window making a signal. He
returned in kind.

When he got home he noticed that his wife's Subaru wasn't in the garage.

Apparently later that evening, he and his wife had a heated argument; she asked him to refrain from
flipping her the bird in the future, and he explained to her that you don't say "hello" to a cyclist
by blaring your horn.

Sam

 

[J. Bruce Fields]

In article <[email protected]>, Sam Huffman
<[email protected]> wrote:
>A friend of mine was riding home one evening when a Subaru passed him driving a little too
>closely and beeping its horn. He vaguely saw a hand in the tinted rear window making a signal. He
>returned in kind.
>
>When he got home he noticed that his wife's Subaru wasn't in the garage.
>
>Apparently later that evening, he and his wife had a heated argument; she asked him to refrain from
>flipping her the bird in the future, and he explained to her that you don't say "hello" to a
>cyclist by blaring your horn.

I'm convinced that one of the reasons my experience of harassment jibes so poorly with some
others'--to hear some cyclists talk, you'd get the impression they can't ride two miles without some
incident--is that people predisposed to expect harassment see it when it isn't there.

OK, so there's your cue to chime in with accounts of incidents that were unambiguously harassment. I
don't doubt them, but they're not the whole story. Even as someone who tends to assume the best
about people, I've misread intentions in this way before. For example:

* Oncoming car honks horn. "Darned drivers think they own the road!", I think to myself. I take a
second glance as they approach and see a friend waving at me from the driver's seat.
* I hear a car horn, but when I turn I see that well behind me there's a car braking hard to avoid
someone who pulled out of a driveway without looking. It probably wasn't me they were honking at
after all.
* A car pulls up next to me at an intersection, and the window rolls down. "Excuse me!" My pulse
goes up in preperation for an argument. "Could you tell me which way it is to State Street?"

For these reasons (among others) I advise not being too quick to flip people off....

--Bruce F.

 

[Pooing Is Cool]

On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:26:21 -0500, "Raymo853" <[email protected]> said:

>The best thing I have found so far to do when harassed by a car is to yell out very loud "Jesus
>Loves Still You"

The best thing I have found to do is hurl a hard object such as a rock or a hammer through their
car window.

--

I think. Therefore, I am not a conservative! ------ http://www.todayslastword.org -------

 

[Hunrobe]

>[email protected]

wrote:
>
>From the real news article http://www.saljournal.com/stories/013003/new_roadRage.html
>
>Yes, this sentence is too light.

At the risk of adding fuel to the fire, there is a "presumption of probation". What that means is
not just the possibility but the near inevitability of zero jail time as the sentence preferred
by statute.

Regards, Bob Hunt

 

[Hijo De La Chan]

"J. Bruce Fields" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> For these reasons (among others) I advise not being too quick to flip
people off....

And the number one reason is: It might be your girlfriend's Mom.

Don't ask me how I know this.

 

[One Of The Six]

"Hunrobe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> When these kinds of stories are told in this forum there's a natural
tendency
> to think in terms of "another *cyclist* is attacked". In reality, these
kinds
> of attacks have little if anything to do with any anti-cyclist feeling.
They
> happen regardless of what mode of transportation is being used. For every victim that happens to
> be a cyclist, I'd guess there are hundreds if not thousands of victims that were driving, walking,
> or just sitting on a
bench
> somewhere. They don't receive any greater degree of justice than the
occasional
> cyclist victim.

Good point. I'm just as astonished at some peoples reckless and dangerous actions when I'm driving a
car as when I'm riding a bicycle.

> The problem isn't a cycling issue, it's societal and it's not confined to
the
> U.S.

I think this is an important perspective to maintain.

> There IS something rotten- it's the idea that all bad acts are committed
by
> otherwise good people that, if we can only educate them, will never
repeat
> them. Sometimes if the doer is young enough that's true. Few offenders
old
> enough to drive a car though are going to be "reached through education".

I disagree. Learning is a lifelong occurrence. It's true that there are many people that somehow
manage to have restricted the rate of learning but it can and does have a way of creeping in there.
Sometimes when you least expect it.

> It's time we as a society faced that and begin trying other approachs.

You must be speaking of our selfish consumeristic/resource depleting/environment abusive/fossil fuel
driven lifestyles.

> Here endeth the OT rant.
>
> Regards, Bob Hunt
>
> I think *logically*. Therefore, I am not a liberal. <g>

That's a good laugh

 

[schikerbiker]

"J. Bruce Fields" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I'm convinced that one of the reasons my experience of harassment jibes so poorly with some
> others'--to hear some cyclists talk, you'd get the impression they can't ride two miles without
> some incident--is that people predisposed to expect harassment see it when it isn't there.

A lot of people consider a car riding too close or blaring their horn (some drivers think they are
doing the bicyclist a favor by honking their horn) to be harassment. Most of these people who do
this aren't doing it to harass the bicyclist but do it out of ignorance or poor judgment. To me,
there is a big difference between harassers (throwing cans, yelling out the windows etc. ) and car
drivers who use poor judgment. A honk on the horn several hundred feet away perhaps is even a
positive thing.

To me, if bicyclist get so ****** off at each close incident with a car, they really need to take up
a more healthy mental activity or anger management.

>
> OK, so there's your cue to chime in with accounts of incidents that were unambiguously harassment.
> I don't doubt them, but they're not the whole story. Even as someone who tends to assume the best
> about people, I've misread intentions in this way before. For example:
>
> * Oncoming car honks horn. "Darned drivers think they own the road!", I think to myself. I take
> a second glance as they approach and see a friend waving at me from the driver's seat.
> * I hear a car horn, but when I turn I see that well behind me there's a car braking hard to
> avoid someone who pulled out of a driveway without looking. It probably wasn't me they were
> honking at after all.
> * A car pulls up next to me at an intersection, and the window rolls down. "Excuse me!" My pulse
> goes up in preperation for an argument. "Could you tell me which way it is to State Street?"
>
> For these reasons (among others) I advise not being too quick to flip people off....
>
> --Bruce F.

And Bruce, some cars honk their cars out of ignorance thinking they are actually helping us on the
road by letting us know they are there. My point of course, if people are riding a bike and get
upset by having close incidents with cars, they really should consider another form of exercise.

I've never flipped off a car in my life. Never will. It is pointless.

 

[Hijo De La Chan]

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "J. Bruce Fields" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
>
> And Bruce, some cars honk their cars out of ignorance thinking they are
actually helping us on the road by letting us know they are there.

I actually caught up with a driver who'd done that; we stopped down the road for ice cream cones,
just a coincidence. I had a weird shirt on and I'm a big guy so he recognized me. He mentioned that
he'd passed me and I noted that I'd heard him honk, and he explained that he was just giving me a
"heads-up" that he was coming. I pointed out my "Nerd-O-Geek" mirror hooked to my sunglasses and
told me that I'd seen him coming. I told him that, on the average, I could hear a vehicle coming
first, then see it, then smell it, then feel it as it passed, and that I generally was aware of the
presence of the car when at least a mile separated us.

He was surprised at that...

 

[schikerbiker]

"Raymo853" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> The best thing I have found so far to do when harassed by a car is to yell out very loud "Jesus
> Loves Still You"

again, by showing a knee jerk reaction, it gives the car the sense of victory as making you have a
reaction is exactly what they are trying to do.

> Remember most of the folks that tend to get angry at bikes are pretty religious,

I think we have heard enough.... PLONK!!!

 

[Robin Hubert]

Regarding "road rage", I had an interesting encounter on my commute to work. This time, I was riding
the train/walking to work.

As for being a pedestrian, I am as militant as when cycling. I don't take any **** and no motorist
is going to muscle me around when I have the right-of-way.

I was crossing a street (Bob, you know where Tasty Dog is in Oak Park is, just west of Oak Park Ave.
on Lake St.) and, of course, I had the right of way. This lady, er, woman was travelling west on
Lake and wanted to turn left into my path. I put up both hands as if to say (and saying) "hold it!".
She stopped long enough (and blocked oncoming traffic) for me start walking again, whereupon she
resumed forward motion only to just clear me. It ****** me off so I swung a road bar (that I
happened to be carrying to work) at the car in a threatening manner. She stopped and started yelling
at me through the window, and I tapped on it. Of course, she was intent on telling me how wrong I
was and I was intent on telling her the truth. I called her stupid something or other and proceeded
to walk to work. She then proceeded to stalk me the entire distance to Ridgeland, threatening to
"call the cops", and yelling other **** out the window. Of course, I yelled back some obscene ****
and grabbed my crotch. At Ridgeland, a copper was turning west on Lake and she waved him down (of
course I was near, she was stalking me). As I saw this, I turned around and approached the copper so
he wouldn't have to turn around in traffic. Shorten the story ... the coppers, after detaining, er,
uh, "interviewing" us for 20 min's., wrote it off as "road rage", sending both of us on our ways.
"Oh, just a little case of road rage", I thought. Cagers in general are a bunch of dangerous idiots.
I have stopped traffic to help old ladies that can't cross the road *when they have the right of
way* and I see this **** all the time.

Bicyclists are not one little, eeny-weeny, tiny bit a problem in America's traffic landscape (not
that you say they are).

Robin Hubert

"Hunrobe" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >[email protected]
>
> wrote:
> >
> >From the real news article http://www.saljournal.com/stories/013003/new_roadRage.html
> >
> >Yes, this sentence is too light.
>
>
> At the risk of adding fuel to the fire, there is a "presumption of
probation".
> What that means is not just the possibility but the near inevitability of
zero
> jail time as the sentence preferred by statute.
>
> Regards, Bob Hunt

 

[Robin Hubert]

This is a case when vigilante justice sounds good.

"Tom Arsenault" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Pooing Is Cool) wrote in message
news:<3e3a1369.46155607@localhost>...
> > On 30 Jan 2003 18:24:54 -0800, [email protected] (Brent Hugh) said:
> >
> > >The woman was convicted of aggravated assault and other counts and faces sentencing on March
> > >31st. She faces a sentence of 11 to 34 months.
> >
> > That's a slap on the wrist.
> >
> > They ought to lock her up and throw away the key.
>
> In NC, there was a case last year where a person was riding, by himself, on a "country" road
> (meaning little or no traffic). A person came up behind him in a utility van, and there was a
> curve in the road, therefore, he couldn't immediately pass the cyclist. He blew the horn several
> times, and then came speeding by and almost clipped the cyclist's wheel as he swerved back into
> the lane (no oncoming traffic was on the road). The cyclist, much as most of us would do, gave him
> the universal signal to **** off. The van driver, deciding that he wasn't going to be taking ****
> from a person wearing lycra, stopped, got out of his van, pulled a crow bar from the back, and
> attacked the guy riding. The vehicle driver broke the cyclist's arm, and then drove off after he
> beat him into a ditch. What did this guy get for a pre-meditated attack on a somewhat defenseless
> person? $500 fine, and recommendation for anger management counseling (he didn't have to go, it
> was just a suggestion). And that was it. There's something rotten in Denmark when something such
> as this happens.
>
> Tom

 

[Robin Hubert]

"Raymo853" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> The best thing I have found so far to do when harassed by a car is to yell out very loud "Jesus
> Loves Still You" Remember most of the folks that
tend
> to get angry at bikes are pretty religious, so yelling that at them
usually
> freaks them out and makes them go away feeling guilty. There are
potential
> problems if they do not hear you correctly.
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Brent Hugh" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > The woman was convicted of aggravated assault and other counts and faces sentencing on March
> > > 31st. She faces a sentence of 11 to 34 months.
> >
> > From the real news article http://www.saljournal.com/stories/013003/new_roadRage.html
> >
> > Yes, this sentence is too light.

First of all, you're not harassed by a "car", but by a person driving a car. The language is
important and makes a difference. Every time you blame a "car" for something, it depersonalizes the
situation and removes the responsibility from the drive.

If someone harasses me while on my bike I make it clear that I am, in no way, taking any ****
from anyone.

Robin Hubert

 

[Robin Hubert]

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "Tom Arsenault" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > . The cyclist, much as most of us would do, gave him the universal signal to **** off.
> ....further....
>
> > What did this guy get for a pre-meditated attack on a somewhat defenseless person? $500 fine,
> > and recommendation for anger management counseling (he didn't have to go, it was just a
> > suggestion).
>
> The "universal signal" by the bicyclist is why this person only got a $500 fine. Think about that
> next time you flip the finger at a car. It is
clearly
> meant to provoke the car. You know why some cars enjoy bothering
bicyclist?
> Because they get a kick out of watching our knee jerk reactions. (flipping the finger, shouting et
> al). Best to just ignore them, even if they are in the wrong.

That's the kind of thinking that allows the bully to exist on the playground. ********.

Robin Hubert

 

[Robin Hubert]

"J. Bruce Fields" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Sam Huffman
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >A friend of mine was riding home one evening when a Subaru passed him driving a little too
> >closely and beeping its horn. He vaguely saw a hand
in
> >the tinted rear window making a signal. He returned in kind.
> >
> >When he got home he noticed that his wife's Subaru wasn't in the garage.
> >
> >Apparently later that evening, he and his wife had a heated argument; she asked him to refrain
> >from flipping her the bird in the future, and he explained to her that you don't say "hello" to a
> >cyclist by blaring your horn.
>
> I'm convinced that one of the reasons my experience of harassment jibes so poorly with some
> others'--to hear some cyclists talk, you'd get the impression they can't ride two miles without
> some incident--is that people predisposed to expect harassment see it when it isn't there.
>
> OK, so there's your cue to chime in with accounts of incidents that were unambiguously harassment.
> I don't doubt them, but they're not the whole story. Even as someone who tends to assume the best
> about people, I've misread intentions in this way before. For example:
>
> * Oncoming car honks horn. "Darned drivers think they own the road!", I think to myself. I take
> a second glance as they approach and see a friend waving at me from the driver's seat.
> * I hear a car horn, but when I turn I see that well behind me there's a car braking hard to
> avoid someone who pulled out of a driveway without looking. It probably wasn't me they were
> honking at after all.
> * A car pulls up next to me at an intersection, and the window rolls down. "Excuse me!" My pulse
> goes up in preperation for an argument. "Could you tell me which way it is to State Street?"
>
> For these reasons (among others) I advise not being too quick to flip people off....

I reckon in most places it is illegal to use the horn to express your emotions or say "hi" to some
other toofus *******, but only as a warning signal.

Robin Hubert

 

[Zoot Katz]

Sat, 01 Feb 2003 04:14:48 GMT, <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:

> To me, there is a big difference between harassers (throwing cans,

Yeah! That's assault, not harassment.
--
zk

 

[Brent Hugh]

Zoot Katz <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> 30 Jan 2003 18:24:54 -0800,
> <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Brent Hugh) wrote:
>
> >The woman was convicted of aggravated assault and other counts and faces sentencing on March
> >31st. She faces a sentence of 11 to 34 months.
>
> " carries a presumption of probation from a sentence of 11 to 34 months."
> http://www.saljournal.com/stories/013003/new_roadRage.html

It turns out there is a little strangeness in Kansas sentencing guidelines.

Just for example, a person convicted of misdemeanor assault is looking at up to a month in jail.
Yet, for a person convicted of felony aggravated assault, the sentencing guidelines say "probation".

The woman was also convicted of reckless battery and, according to a local TV station (world's most
reliable source, as everyone knows) some other vehicle-related charges. Aggravated assault is the
most serious of the charges, and apparently that is what drives the sentencing.

--Brent [email protected] http://www.mobikefed.org

 

[Pooing Is Cool]

On Sat, 01 Feb 2003 05:47:54 GMT, "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> said:

>That's the kind of thinking that allows the bully to exist on the playground. ********.

As I always say: "ignore" is the root of "ignorance".

The more we ignore the idiots, the worse they get.

--

I think. Therefore, I am not a conservative! ------ http://www.todayslastword.org -------

 

[Brent Hugh]

[email protected] (Dennis P. Harris) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> well, i agree with the prison time, but they should also have permanently revoked her driving
> license, since she obviously is unable to drive without using her car as a weapon.

According to Kansas law, since she used a vehicle in the commission of a felony, her license will be
automatically revoked. The license is revoked "when the conviction becomes final". It isn't clear
for how long it must *stay* revoked.

However, there's a b-i-g out: the court can choose to put "restrictions" on the person's driving
privileges, rather than entirely revoking them.

Oh, well . . .

See http://www.kslegislature.org/cgi-bin/statutes/index.cgi/8-254.html

--Brent [email protected] http://www.mobikefed.org

 

[J. Bruce Fields]

In article <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> wrote:
>I've never flipped off a car in my life. Never will. It is pointless.

Absolutely. If you feel you have to do *something*, I suppose you could practice memorizing license
plate numbers....--b.

 

[Just Zis Guy]

On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:26:21 -0500, "Raymo853" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Remember most of the folks that tend to get angry at bikes are pretty religious

Where do you get /that/ from? Most of the major religions are at least slightly down on aggression
and anger against poeple going about thier lawful business.

Guy
===
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