Motorist drives along pavement

[James Annan]

Clive George wrote:

> "David Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> The unacceptable face of motoring (and some pedestrian groups who
>> are not au fait with the real dangers those they claim to represent
>> face) often imply that only cyclists ride along pavements.
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4827894.stm is about a
>> motorist driving along a pavement, in the course of which he injured
>> six people, one very badly.
>>
>> True to form the police appear to have already gone out of their way
>> to excuse the motorist. Other groups in the motoring lobby will no
>> doubt follow their lead.
>
>
> Can you tell me where it says the police have gone out of their way to
> excuse the motorist?

The version I read last night quoted a policeman as saying it appeared
to be a tragic accident (I think I have those words right). That bit has
gone now.

An arguably less loaded assessment would be that it appeared to be the
result of dangerous driving. After all, they have already arrested the
driver on that charge, so it could hardly be prejudicial or inaccurate
to say such a thing.

James
--
James Annan
see web pages for email
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/

 

[David Martin]

Tom Crispin wrote:

> The Royal Parks prohibit all cycling on footpaths, other than marked
> cycle routes and roads, but their regulations allow for children of
> ten years and under to ride on paths when learning to ride safely.
>
> That seems very sensible.

UTAPLC. If cycling on footpaths is dangerous, then how can learning to
ride on a footpath be learning to ride safely?

...d

 

[Clive George]

"James Annan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>> Can you tell me where it says the police have gone out of their way to
>> excuse the motorist?
>
> The version I read last night quoted a policeman as saying it appeared to
> be a tragic accident (I think I have those words right). That bit has gone
> now.

The words are about right - it's just that they were in the half of the
report talking about the railway crash, not the car crash. "Tragic" because
people died in the former, not the latter.

Not that any of this excuses the driver for his actions...

cheers,
clive

 

[James Annan]

Simon Brooke wrote:

> in message <[email protected]>, 2.30 zulu-india\ ('"Mr R@t \')
> wrote:
>
>
>>"David Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>>Goodness me, dead plants in the countryside. Who'd have thought it.
>>>Something must be done..
>>
>>AFAIK most dead (wild) plants die where they were planted or are
>>trimmed / removed / harvested. Decomposing vegetable matter is no
>>longer normally thrown or left at the side of the road - at least in
>>the areas where I live!
>
>
> Are there now no deciduous trees left in southern England?
>

No, the last one was blown down in the Great Hurricane.

James
--
James Annan
see web pages for email
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/

 

[David Martin]

James Annan wrote:
> > Are there now no deciduous trees left in southern England?
> No, the last one was blown down in the Great Hurricane.

The Great "it's not a Hurricane" Blow of 1987 .. I remember it well.
Plenty of decaying vegetable matter, even on the top of flyovers.

...d

 

[Clive George]

"David Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:34:05 -0000 someone who may be "Clive George"
> <[email protected]> wrote this:-
>
>>as I said twice, I
>>think the sentence referred to the rail crash, not the car crash.
>
> We will have to disagree.

Fortunately the matter appears to have been resolved by somebody finding the
old text.

>>Face it, you're just getting all self-righteoously wound up about plod
>>again - you do have a habit of doing this.
>
> Excellent, the swerve into a personal attack.

Yup. Do you want urls to reinforce my assertion? I can probably provide
them...

clive

 

[Ric]

"David Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The unacceptable face of motoring (and some pedestrian groups who
> are not au fait with the real dangers those they claim to represent
> face) often imply that only cyclists ride along pavements.

Just think, anybody who happened to be cycling on that pavement on that day
at that time would have been killed! This proves that cycling on pavements
is more dangerous than cycling on the road.

 

[James Annan]

p.k. wrote:

> David Hansen wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:34:05 -0000 someone who may be "Clive George"
>><[email protected]> wrote this:-
>>
>>
>>>as I said twice, I
>>>think the sentence referred to the rail crash, not the car crash.
>>
>>We will have to disagree.
>
>
>
> on other bbc sites the inital text is preserved:
>
>
>
> #A man has been arrested on suspicion of dangerous driving.
>
>
> The police have confirmed the injured girl was air-lifted to the Royal
> London Hospital.
>
> Police are still investigating what happened to the boys, who were killed by
> the Stansted Express train while using a gated crossing in Edmonton, London.
>
> Detective Chief Inspector Mick Southerton, who is investigating the deaths
> said: "At the moment we are dealing with it as a very tragic accident but we
> are not ruling anything out." #
>

In that case, I misread it.


James
--
James Annan
see web pages for email
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/

 

[elyob]

"TheMgt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> elyob wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> trying to use it as an example whilst one schoolgirl is fighting for
>> her life in hospital is just wrong.
>
> Why?

Out of context you can ask why. In context of my full post, it's because the
OP was out of order posting the original argument. It was plainly just
wrong, and probably pretty sick as well.

 

[Pyromancer]

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as spindrift
<[email protected]> gently breathed:

>Apologies, Pyromancer was the poster who thinks memorials should be
>banned in case motorists accidently lose control at speed and crash
>into them.

??? Your reading comprehension (not to mention context-quoting ability)
appear to be defective. Go back and read what I actually wrote, then
try again.

--
- DJ Pyromancer, The Sunday Goth Social, Leeds. <http://www.sheepish.net>

Broadband, Dialup, Domains = <http://www.wytches.net> = The UK's Pagan ISP!
<http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk> <http://www.revival.stormshadow.com>

 

[spindrift]

The car in this incident was speeding, overtaking another car involved
in a previous altercation, and the driver lost control.

The fifteen year old girl hit by the car had her leg amputated
yesterday. Crippled for live because of an aggressive, ignorant,
selfish driver.


More on the draconian penalties killer drivers face:


Cars routinely sideswipe bicycles, overtake and turn left, harass,
intimidate and threaten.

For instance, take the case of Peter Williams, a 22-year-old cyclist
who was killed in January 2000 after a driver hit him with her wing
mirror. He fell under the wheels of a following vehicle. The driver
admitted driving without due care and attention but was fined just
£200. No penalty points were applied despite a history of offences
which would have meant an immediate ban under `totting up`. Phillip
Judge, Chairman of the Bench in Cheltenham, said a driving ban would
prevent her from taking her children the 2 miles to school and
therefore cause too much hardship.

The idea that punishments should not cause hardship to the offender is
a new one to me.

Nor is this unusual. 25-year-old Carl Fox from Doncaster was killed by
a driver travelling at 46mph in a 30mph zone. The driver was fined
£100 and three penalty points. And Peter Longbottom, a racing cyclist
of international repute, was held to have contributed to his demise by
using a flashing rear light. The transport department has figures
showing that these, while technically illegal, are three to five times
more visible than a steady light.

And more recently 17-year-old Jason Salter was knocked off his bike and
killed by a woman who chose to try to overtake in the face of oncoming
traffic, necessitating her passing far too close - a situation
familiar to and dreaded by any regular cyclist. This triumph of
impatience over respect for human life netted the driver a whopping
£135 fine (less than the cost of a bicycle) and just six penalty
points.

Take the blame attached to a cyclist for being killed whilst possibly
wearing an Ipod. How many motorists have died while listening to the
radio? This is an important question because it points to the cyclists`
apartheid, where we are held to a higher standard while being fed a
steady diet of outrage, condescension and nannyish pats on the back:
all for the sin of being self-propelled.

 

[MichaelB]

"MichaelB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> elyob Wrote:
>>
>> This has got FA to do with cycling and trying to use it as an example
>> whilst
>> one schoolgirl is fighting for her life in hospital is just wrong.
>
> You make an excellent point. ONE school girl. The other 10 people who
> will actually be killed today wont get a look in.
>

Thanks, but I really don't understand your point in regards to the subject.
Are you talking about 10 other people who will be killed on the roads today,
or something? If so, it has nothing to do with the subject of this story or
my response.

I have an issue with the way the news can go on about just one person getting hurt or killed by some unusaul or freak occurence. The reason being is that people seem to think this kind of thing is therefore likely and 'we' need to do something about it. The worst examples of this in my opinion is anything to do with kids. I think it makes parents worry about things that are not going to happen but stops them worrying about things which are more likely to happen - like being run over by a 4x4 on the way home from school!

 

[Alan Braggins]

David Martin wrote:
>
>UTAPLC. If cycling on footpaths is dangerous, then how can learning to
>ride on a footpath be learning to ride safely?

Is there any evidence that cycling on footpaths at walking pace and
stopping at every minor junction and driveway is dangerous?

 

[Matt B]

David Hansen wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:30:03 +0000 someone who may be Matt B
> <[email protected]> wrote this:-
>
>> Why "ha, ha"? Have you /ever/ heard of the police /not/ investigating
>> even the most minor of injury incidents involving a motorist?
>
> The assertion that the police will as usual spare no effort in an
> attempt to convict a motorist of the most serious offence possible
> can be given a reality check easily enough. Here is one example,
> from this group in 2001.

OK, so you had to go back five years to find a suitably atypical
example, it's not an everyday occurrence then. However, if you search
"accident 'road closed'" into BBC news you'll find several for /every/
week of /every/ year.

--
Matt B

 

[spindrift]

"OK, so you had to go back five years to find a suitably atypical
example, it's not an everyday occurrence then. "

How about this year?

"Chief Inspector Lyn Adams, from North Wales Police, said the driver
appeared to have lost control on a gentle left-hand bend, striking a
wall and rebounding into the road.

All 12 riders in the group were members of a cycling club

Sunday morning scene of tragedy he said: "The driver has lost control
because of the ice on the road. There is no indication to suggest that
this is down to something like excessive speed. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/4592412.stm


So before the car is inspected, before the driver is interviewed and
before any investigation has even begun, the coppers excuse a killer
driver.



Nor is this unusual:

It is known that many accidents involving cyclists are not reported to
the Police, but this is especially the case for accidents that occur on
cycle paths where fewer than 3 per cent of accidents are believed to be
reported (Ref 5). In particular, accidents that do not involve a motor
vehicle are rarely recorded even when serious.

In Milton Keynes this situation has been aggravated by a frequent
unwillingness on the part of the Police to accept accident reports from
cyclists, especially when off-road. One fatality to a cyclist was not
recorded as a cycling accident. "

http://www.lesberries.co.uk/cycling/infra/2decades.html


And more on the police reluctance to enforce the law against miscreant
drivers:

For a number of years, Cambridge Cycling Campaign has had concerns over
the lack of compliance by motorists of the regulations regarding cycle
lanes delineated by a solid line. The Highway Code says in rule 119:

Cycle Lanes: ... You MUST NOT drive or park in a cycle lane marked by a
solid line during its times of operation.

I'd become disillusioned over the attitude of the police to these
regulations, having met several officers who told me that driving in
such MCLs was not an offence.

http://www.camcycle.org.uk/newsletters/58/article5.html


Or how about this?

Check this out:

A 4x4 driver blows horn at elderly cyclist for riding in middle of
road.
Cyclist pulls to one side and stops.
Car stops. Driver gets out.
Driver pushes cyclist off bike.
Cyclist later dies in hospital.
The result: The driver gets a nine month suspended jail sentence.
The defence counsel said the driver was extremely remorseful, adding
"It was a freak series of incidents,"

The judge told the defendant: "This is not a case where death was
directly a result of violence."

Hello? Hello? Freak series of incidents? Not a result of violence? Is
there anyone at home?


http://wheelism.co.uk/

And more:

Q145 Chairman: Yes, but with respect, Mr Geffen, for the moment we are
not talking about motorists, we are actually talking about the police.
What we want to know is why you did not specifically say in your
evidence to us that the police are less likely to take action?

Mr Darnton: The NCS Board has no evidence of it.

Mr Geffen: We know of a lot of anecdotal evidence, we get this all
the time from cyclists saying, "I had a really quite serious injury and
the police just wouldn't come out. I phoned them. I had to go to
Accident & Emergency. I was in a really bad way and the police just
simply wouldn't show up." We have documented that.


Q146 Chairman: How many cases like that have you recorded, Mr Geffen?


Mr Geffen: I would not know numbers over time but certainly we see
several a month of people writing in with that kind of anecdote.


Q147 Chairman: Several a month?

Mr Geffen: Yes.


http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmselect/cmtran/105/3121009.htm


The roads are lawless.


Killer drivers get away scot free.


Cyclists are killed and crippled and the police do nothing.

 

[spindrift]

Motorists intimidate, kill and cripple cyclists and get away with it.

The police are often reluctant to investigate attacks on cyclists and
even when the drivers are caught they often get away with a laughable
fine.

The roads are lawless and out of control.

 

[p.k.]

spindrift wrote:
> Motorists intimidate, kill and cripple cyclists and get away with it.


Put "some" in front, or better still "some people in cars intimidate...."
and no one can sensibly disagree

Tarring all motorists with the same brush invites people to dismiss your
point out of hand.

pk

 

[spindrift]

"Tarring all motorists with the same brush invites people to dismiss
your
point out of hand. "


"in a recent survey of more than 1,500 UK drivers by Direct Line car
insurance, 94 per cent of motorists still admitted to speeding, with a
third (33 per cent) of young drivers (18-29 year-olds) admitting to
doing so regularly."


http://www.directline.com/about_us/news_050805.htm



Mr Geffen: We know of a lot of anecdotal evidence, we get this all the
time from cyclists saying, "I had a really quite serious injury and the
police just wouldn't come out. I phoned them. I had to go to Accident &
Emergency. I was in a really bad way and the police just simply
wouldn't show up." We have documented that.


Q146 Chairman: How many cases like that have you recorded, Mr Geffen?


Mr Geffen: I would not know numbers over time but certainly we see
several a month of people writing in with that kind of anecdote.


Q147 Chairman: Several a month?

Mr Geffen: Yes.


http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmselect/cmtran/105/3121009.htm

It is known that many accidents involving cyclists are not reported to
the Police, but this is especially the case for accidents that occur on
cycle paths where fewer than 3 per cent of accidents are believed to be
reported (Ref 5). In particular, accidents that do not involve a motor
vehicle are rarely recorded even when serious.

In Milton Keynes this situation has been aggravated by a frequent
unwillingness on the part of the Police to accept accident reports from
cyclists, especially when off-road. One fatality to a cyclist was not
recorded as a cycling accident.


http://www.lesberries.co.uk/cycling/infra/2decades.html

Check this out:

A 4x4 driver blows horn at elderly cyclist for riding in middle of
road.
Cyclist pulls to one side and stops.
Car stops. Driver gets out.
Driver pushes cyclist off bike.
Cyclist later dies in hospital.
The result: The driver gets a nine month suspended jail sentence.
The defence counsel said the driver was extremely remorseful, adding
"It was a freak series of incidents,"

The judge told the defendant: "This is not a case where death was
directly a result of violence."

Hello? Hello? Freak series of incidents? Not a result of violence? Is
there anyone at home?


http://wheelism.co.uk/

 

[Richard]

Alan Braggins wrote:
> David Martin wrote:
>
>>UTAPLC. If cycling on footpaths is dangerous, then how can learning to
>>ride on a footpath be learning to ride safely?
>
>
> Is there any evidence that cycling on footpaths at walking pace and
> stopping at every minor junction and driveway is dangerous?

There's two problems with this question. Firstly, your conditions are
poorly specified. Do you mean stop, or do you mean stop, check for
traffic, and proceed if safe to do so? Do you mean stop even when you
have right of way? What is your definition of walking pace? - I can
cycle comfortably at the walking pace of most fit adults, but I once
knew a lady who took over ten minutes to walk the same number of yards,
bless her; I suspect not many cyclists could cycle that slowly.
Conversely, there's one lady I know who sets off at a pace that leaves
most people breathless. Secondly, what is your definition of
'dangerous'? Is there a threshhold value? Is there a comparator? -
and if you go with a comparator, how can you be sure you're not
comparing apples and oranges?

There /is/ a lot of evidence that cycling on the footpaths is more
dangerous than cycling on the road. I'm not aware of any that
attempted to subdivide various styles of riding on the footpath, which
is what you seem to be asking.

R.

 

[John Hearns]

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:30:03 +0000, Matt B wrote:

> If anyone is seriously injured the scene is closed and treated as a
> potential crime scene (which, of course it is). The road will be closed
> for hours whilst every stone is turned.
Every stone is turned?
A dear, dear friend of mine was run over and left dead, by a coward in a
Range Rover who simply drove off. And this in central London, the area on
earth most covered by CCTV cameras. Driver was never tracked down.
I'll bet a pound to a penny if he was a terrorist suspect the number plate
could have been tracked from here to Timbuktu.