Mountain Bikers TROUNCED in Los Angeles!

[Mike Vandeman]

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 16:30:36 GMT, Chris Phillipo <[email protected]>
wrote:

..In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
..>
..> The issue comes down to one, tiny little factor, if everyone can prove,
..> that they will leave delicate areas of parks, and natural areas exactly
..> the same as they found them, then there would be no issue either way.
..>
..> The problem is that mountain bikers like to bush whack, or at least
..> enough of them do, that others see it as a problem, the damage done by
..> one bush whacking mountain biker can take over a decade to recover from,
..> put enough of them together doing it, over an extended period of time,
..> and you can totally destroy the space for everyone....
..>
..> Horses and road bikers tend to stick to roads and established trails....
..> So mountain bikers find themselves limited to either the same rules,
..> or banned outright.
..>
..> W
..>
..
..Perhaps you define bush whacking as something other than blazing new
..trail where you are but to me I would think a mountain bike is the least
..suitable method of doing this compared to a horse or hiker. A bike
..simply can not push through waist high pine trees and alders.

Who said they use a BIKE? DUH!
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[GaryG]

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:46:24 -0700, "GaryG" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .news:[email protected]...
> .> On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:04:29 -0700, "GaryG" <[email protected]>
> .wrote:
> .>
> .> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .> .news:[email protected]...
> .> .> ONE MORE park with Yosemite rules: no bikes off of pavement!
> .> .>
> .> .> Mike
> .> .>
> .> .>
> .> .> Subject: Griffth Park Master Plan meeting
> .> .>
> .> .> Hi Mike,
> .> .>
> .> .> The meeting was last night, so there hasn't been time to talk about
it
> .> .much.
> .> .>
> .> .> We WON every point that was of concern. The bikers, all white 30
> .> .something
> .> .> males, came off as rude, aggressive fools. Most of them were from
out
> .of
> .> .town,
> .> .> not even local to the Park. It was a disaster for them.
> .> .>
> .> .> It was a wonderful turnout, probably close to 300 people. Plus some
TV
> .> .> coverage. I worked hard to get it going and then it took on a life
of
> .it's
> .> .own
> .> .> as
> .> .> other people told other friends, etc. As far as I can see, just
about
> .> .every
> .> .> barn was represented with both us old farts and lots of young people
as
> .> .well,
> .> .> plus we had a nice cross section of income levels and races present,
> .> .Latino,
> .> .> black, white, little kids. It made it quite clear that horses were
not
> .> .simply
> .> .> the province of the wealthy.
> .> .
> .> .What a bald-faced lie! Does the author really expect us to believe
that
> .> .there are poor, or working class, horse owners in Los Angeles?
> .>
> .> You don't need to OWN a horse to ride one. DUH!
> .
> .The OP is attempting to portray urban equestrians as representative of a
> .cross section of socioeconomic classes. This is an obvious distortion of
> .the truth.
> .
> .http://www.angelfire.com/la3/gphorserentals/prices.html
> .
> .$20 / hour / horse...not exactly cheap family fun...duh!
> .
> .The fact that you are gleefully supporting SUV driving equestrians
>
> Liar. I never said that. You FABRICATED it. Liar.

Most equestrians that I know drive large SUV's (Tahoes, Suburbans, and
Escalades, mostly). They need them to haul their horse trailers. Your post
is celebrating a "victory" by these same people, thus you are supporting SUV
drivers. Sorry if you are oblivious to the connection.

GG

>
> .illustrates the depths of your hypocrisy and obsession, but that's
nothing
> .new to long-time readers.
> .
> .BTW - do you have any close relationships in the real world?
(girlfriends,
> .boyfriends, etc.). Or, is this what your life is all about?
> .
> .GG
> .
> .> .GG
> .> .
> .> .> Not only did we accomplish a lot, but we generated a LOT of good
will
> .for
> .> .the
> .> .> equestrians on the part of the Parks. I had received a couple of
> ."secret"
> .> .> phone calls from people who were sitting on that dais last night who
> .were
> .> .> worried about the MB threat and wanted me to make sure and bring
people
> .to
> .> .> support
> .> .> them. The horse people out did themselves, were courteous (which I
had
> .> .> stressed when I prepped them), well spoken for the most part and
> .> .represented all
> .> .> kinds of races and income levels as well. It couldn't have been
> .better.
> .> .>
> .> .> After the presentation had started, I got up to go to the bathroom
(the
> .> .curse
> .> .> of the teeny bladder) when City Councilperson ... hopped out of
his/her
> .> .seat
> .> .> and grabbed my arm. "Don't you worry about a thing," he/she
whispered,
> .> ."I'm
> .> .> going
> .> .> to take care of you horse people. No mountain bikers on my watch."
> .> .>
> .> .> It was a great moment when he/she got up and stuck it to the bikers
and
> .> .everyone
> .> .> in the audience cheered! The whole thing was very gratifying to me.
It
> .> .was my
> .> .> night, a culmination of my years of work, personal credibility and
PR.
> .> .The
> .> .> mountain bikers were completely out done. Jim Hausenaur was there,
> .> .although I
> .> .> didn't see him. I loved that, he's such a lying jerk.
> .> .>
> .> .> I didn't speak because everyone else made all the point that were
> .needed
> .> .to
> .> .> be made, plus it's so much better when there's new input instead of
the
> .> .same
> .> .> old faces all the time. I imagine that I'll probably be on the
> .citizens
> .> .> oversight committee and will have all the time in the world to speak
> .then.
> .> .>
> .> .> I was SO BUSY glad handing and thanking people for being there, that
I
> .> .didn't
> .> .> even get to see all those who were there, plus afterwards I was
mobbed
> .and
> .> .> was one of the last to leave.
> .> .>
> .> .> Today I was staggeringly tired. I was too wired to sleep well, and
> .dizzy
> .> .when
> .> .> I got up. I rode around the trails and encountered lots of folks
from
> .the
> .> .> meeting last night. I made a big point of thanking them and letting
> .them
> .> .know
> .> .> that without each and every one of them present, we couldn't have
> .> .accomplished
> .> .> what we did in such a short amount of time. YES!!!
> .> .>
> .> .> We got 6 years worth of work done in a couple of hours. The meeting
> .> .wasn't
> .> .> just about MBers on our trails, but was about a Master Plan for the
> .next
> .> .25
> .> .> years in the Park. There were lots of issues to be dealt with.
> .> .>
> .> .> It was a good to see how united our equestrian community was (as
well
> .as
> .> .> home owners associations, the Observatory, the dogwalkers, the
hikers,
> .and
> .> .many
> .> .> more who were also opposed to bikes on our trails). The lesson is
that
> .you
> .> .> don't have to put up with bikers on your trails in order to have
trail
> .> .access
> .> .> for
> .> .> horses.
> .> .>
> .> .> It sort of restored my faith in the process. It looked discouraging
> .there
> .> .for
> .> .> a while.
> .> .>
> .> .> Yeeeaaaah! I'm so proud of everyone. Plus they had a good time
> .> .participating
> .> .> in the planning of their own Park trails, etc. Makes them more
willing
> .to
> .> .do
> .> .> it again in the future.
> .> .>
> .> .> ===
> .> .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> .> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> .> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
> .> .>
> .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
> .> .
> .>
> .> ===
> .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
> .>
> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
> .
>
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Westie]

Mike Vandeman wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 19:05:32 +1200, Westie <[email protected]> wrote:
>

> .> Obviously for that particular park, they feel that MB riders can't leave
> .> the place as they found it, and that they needed to be limited in their
> .> use. At least horse **** goes away after a short period of time.....
> .
> .I've been around horses for enough years to wonder what on earth these
> .people were thinking when they decided to ban bikes and not horses.
> .Frankly, I'd rather have to pass insane cyclists on the trails than
> .horses. Horses are too unpredictable at the best of times and as for
> .the trail damage? Who on earth thought that horses don't cause much
> .trail damage? I guess it's a question of volume. There can't be very
> .many horses using the trails.
>
> Probably true. But at least horses are living organisms. Bikes are inanimate
> oblects, and have NO RIGHTS!

What?! Now you're advocating trail rights for living organisms versus
inanimate objects? You, my fine little furry friend, are completely
loosing the plot.
I guess you should tell the horse riders that they aren't allowed their
inanimate saddles, horseshoes or bridles next. Nor their horsefloats or
vehicles.
--
Westie

 

[Jason]

* Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>:
> On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:30:00 -0300, Jason <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .* Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>:
> .> According to SCIENCE, mountain biking has more impact on wildlife:
> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb7.htm.
> .
> .Mikey, the more you say something doesn't make it true, more so when
> .it's your so called science compared to real science. Do you have any
> .corroborating papers?
>
> Yes, all of the ones I reviewed.
>
> .Jason
> .vandeman faq: http://bbtc.org/php/show_page.php?page_id=32.
>


All of the ones you reviewed? Ok, do these exist in the world where we
can read them or only in your reality? And if the exist in the world
where are they so we too can read them.

Jason

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 04:40:01 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
wrote:

>.Somehow I think the commercial logging activities in the estate are
>.just the teensiest bit more disruptive to wildlife than mountain
>.bikers riding on trails which were laid out specifically for their
>.use!

>None of which has anything to do with the damage mountain biking does. By your
>logic, we shouldn't worry about any crimes other than murder.

The fundamental problem here is that you are a bigot. Because you are
a bigot you see everything done by your chosen hate group as a
problem, and absolutely nothing they do as anything but a problem.

Evidently "your enemy's enemy is your friend" in the case of horse
riders, despite the obvious damage they can do - although in the real
world horse riders and cyclists have a lot of common cause, as do
cyclists and walkers. Are you prepared to stand up and admit that
horse riders cause damage? I'm betting the usual mantra will be
trotted out: no other damage is relevant, only that caused by mountain
bikers. You have already started down this path in other replies; you
are a bigot so this was no surprise.

In this specific case you are clearly arguing from ignorance as well
as bigotry. The area in question is a managed and almost entirely
synthetic environment, a commercial forestry operation with some areas
set aside for the enjoyment of us folks, however we choose to enjoy
them (and the location and designation of those areas changes over
time). This is a Good Thing in every way, providing relief from the
giant mechanised monoculture which is the rest of the forest and
providing at least some accessible nature in the middle of an
extensively urbanised region. The butterflies, of course, do not give
a toss whether people got to the iron age fort on foot, on horseback
or by bike.

Since it is virtually impossible for there to be any human activity
which does not disturb the local wildlife in some way, the only
logically defensible absolutist position is to ban all humans from
every area where wildlife lives. All exceptions to this are entirely
arbitrary. You make an arbitrary exception for hikers, and now
apparently for horse riders. As a bigot you view your arbitrary
exceptions as the only valid ones.

I recognise that writing this is a waste of time. You are a bigot and
rational argument will be met only with further bigotry. But it's a
slow morning...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 18:42:49 +1200, Westie
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I guess you should tell the horse riders that they aren't allowed their
>inanimate saddles, horseshoes or bridles next. Nor their horsefloats or
>vehicles.

Absolutely. Saddles and tack have NO RIGHTS, neither do horse shoes.
Come to think of it, hiking boots have NO RIGHTS either.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 04:43:43 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
wrote:

>.Mikey, the more you say something doesn't make it true, more so when
>.it's your so called science compared to real science. Do you have any
>.corroborating papers?

>Yes, all of the ones I reviewed.

Meaningless without knowing your inclusion criteria. I think we all
know what came top of the list there...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

 

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 22:00:42 -0700, "cc"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Mike, this paper is not science. It is ********. I cannot believe you wrote
>this and are publicizing it.

Mike's a social "scientist", I think he was putting up an example of
the Fallacy of Exclusion. As such it's a masterpiece - the
chronically gullible might even be taken in, if they were not aware
that it is the work of a bigot.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

 

[Shaun aRe]

"NeXuS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Slack" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > The Wogster wrote:
> >
> >> And for those who like to "thrash their guts out" there are other
issues
> >> too, first they can wreck it for everyone, second they can wreck
> >> themselves too, I have seen on TV, mountain bikers in action, and um,
> >> that can't be good for a persons body, even with full suspensions......
> >> Wonder how many of those guys will find that at age 50 they have
serious
> >> medical issues.....
> >>
> >>
> >> W
> >>
> >>
> > That was pretty funny, you little jelly fish.
>
> You don't think he has a valid point?

*Invalid* point, aka *erectile dysfunction* - HTH.



Shaun aRe

 

[The Wogster]

Chris Phillipo wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>
>>The issue comes down to one, tiny little factor, if everyone can prove,
>>that they will leave delicate areas of parks, and natural areas exactly
>>the same as they found them, then there would be no issue either way.
>>
>>The problem is that mountain bikers like to bush whack, or at least
>>enough of them do, that others see it as a problem, the damage done by
>>one bush whacking mountain biker can take over a decade to recover from,
>>put enough of them together doing it, over an extended period of time,
>>and you can totally destroy the space for everyone....
>>
>>Horses and road bikers tend to stick to roads and established trails....
>> So mountain bikers find themselves limited to either the same rules,
>>or banned outright.
>>
>>W
>>
>
>
> Perhaps you define bush whacking as something other than blazing new
> trail where you are but to me I would think a mountain bike is the least
> suitable method of doing this compared to a horse or hiker. A bike
> simply can not push through waist high pine trees and alders.

Nope, blazing new trail would be the correct definition, in many wooded
areas, at least around here, once trees get to a certain height, you get
underbrush, small plants, some of which, like the Trillium, come out in
late April, early may, before hardwoods reach full foliage. They plants
are usually protected by the tree canopy above, and can be fairly easily
damaged. Then around waist height to head height it's fairly clear, and
this is the kind of area, that could easily be bush whacked on an MB.

W

 

[NeXuS]

"Shaun aRe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "NeXuS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Slack" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > The Wogster wrote:
>> >
>> >> And for those who like to "thrash their guts out" there are other
> issues
>> >> too, first they can wreck it for everyone, second they can wreck
>> >> themselves too, I have seen on TV, mountain bikers in action, and um,
>> >> that can't be good for a persons body, even with full
>> >> suspensions......
>> >> Wonder how many of those guys will find that at age 50 they have
> serious
>> >> medical issues.....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> W
>> >>
>> >>
>> > That was pretty funny, you little jelly fish.
>>
>> You don't think he has a valid point?
>
> *Invalid* point, aka *erectile dysfunction* - HTH.
>
>
Very funny.

 

[NeXuS]

> You didn't answer my question. What does the harm that mountain biking
> does have
> to do with horseback riding (hint: NOTHING).
>
It was a comparison, read the FACTS first Mikey Boy.

 

[Chris Glidden]

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote
(Snip other person's accomplishments)

What have you done lately Mike? Besides posting the same old tired out
drivel you've been posting for years.

 

[pmhilton]

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

>
>Since it is virtually impossible for there to be any human activity
>which does not disturb the local wildlife in some way, the only
>logically defensible absolutist position is to ban all humans from
>every area where wildlife lives.
>
>
This is precisely what Mikey advocates. He is determined to ghettoize
the earth.

Pete H

--
A person is free only in
the freedom of other persons.
W. Berry

 

[pmhilton]

Chris Glidden wrote:

>"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote
>(Snip other person's accomplishments)
>
>What have you done lately Mike? Besides posting the same old tired out
>drivel you've been posting for years.
>
>
>
>
Well . . . . He did have a brief excursion into the tin-hat piercing
belt of almost nonexistent radiation surrounding cell phone dipole antennae.

Pete H

--
A person is free only in
the freedom of other persons.
W. Berry

 

[Slack]

NeXuS wrote:
> "Shaun aRe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"NeXuS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>"Slack" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>The Wogster wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>And for those who like to "thrash their guts out" there are other
>>
>>issues
>>
>>>>>too, first they can wreck it for everyone, second they can wreck
>>>>>themselves too, I have seen on TV, mountain bikers in action, and um,
>>>>>that can't be good for a persons body, even with full
>>>>>suspensions......
>>>>>Wonder how many of those guys will find that at age 50 they have
>>
>>serious
>>
>>>>>medical issues.....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>W
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>That was pretty funny, you little jelly fish.
>>>
>>>You don't think he has a valid point?
>>
>>*Invalid* point, aka *erectile dysfunction* - HTH.
>>
>>
>
> Very funny.
>
>
Once in awhile, Shaun whips out a decent one.
--
Slack

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 06:30:00 -0300, Jason <[email protected]> wrote:

..* Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>:
..> On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:30:00 -0300, Jason <[email protected]> wrote:
..>
..> .* Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>:
..> .> According to SCIENCE, mountain biking has more impact on wildlife:
..> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb7.htm.
..> .
..> .Mikey, the more you say something doesn't make it true, more so when
..> .it's your so called science compared to real science. Do you have any
..> .corroborating papers?
..>
..> Yes, all of the ones I reviewed.
..>
..> .Jason
..> .vandeman faq: http://bbtc.org/php/show_page.php?page_id=32.
..>
..
..
..All of the ones you reviewed? Ok, do these exist in the world where we
..can read them or only in your reality? And if the exist in the world
..where are they so we too can read them.

If you would have bothered to read my paper, or even look at the end of it, you
would have seen the references. DUH!

..Jason

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 23:32:56 -0700, "GaryG" <[email protected]> wrote:

.."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:46:24 -0700, "GaryG" <[email protected]>
..wrote:
..>
..> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> .news:[email protected]...
..> .> On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:04:29 -0700, "GaryG" <[email protected]>
..> .wrote:
..> .>
..> .> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> .> .news:[email protected]...
..> .> .> ONE MORE park with Yosemite rules: no bikes off of pavement!
..> .> .>
..> .> .> Mike
..> .> .>
..> .> .>
..> .> .> Subject: Griffth Park Master Plan meeting
..> .> .>
..> .> .> Hi Mike,
..> .> .>
..> .> .> The meeting was last night, so there hasn't been time to talk about
..it
..> .> .much.
..> .> .>
..> .> .> We WON every point that was of concern. The bikers, all white 30
..> .> .something
..> .> .> males, came off as rude, aggressive fools. Most of them were from
..out
..> .of
..> .> .town,
..> .> .> not even local to the Park. It was a disaster for them.
..> .> .>
..> .> .> It was a wonderful turnout, probably close to 300 people. Plus some
..TV
..> .> .> coverage. I worked hard to get it going and then it took on a life
..of
..> .it's
..> .> .own
..> .> .> as
..> .> .> other people told other friends, etc. As far as I can see, just
..about
..> .> .every
..> .> .> barn was represented with both us old farts and lots of young people
..as
..> .> .well,
..> .> .> plus we had a nice cross section of income levels and races present,
..> .> .Latino,
..> .> .> black, white, little kids. It made it quite clear that horses were
..not
..> .> .simply
..> .> .> the province of the wealthy.
..> .> .
..> .> .What a bald-faced lie! Does the author really expect us to believe
..that
..> .> .there are poor, or working class, horse owners in Los Angeles?
..> .>
..> .> You don't need to OWN a horse to ride one. DUH!
..> .
..> .The OP is attempting to portray urban equestrians as representative of a
..> .cross section of socioeconomic classes. This is an obvious distortion of
..> .the truth.
..> .
..> .http://www.angelfire.com/la3/gphorserentals/prices.html
..> .
..> .$20 / hour / horse...not exactly cheap family fun...duh!
..> .
..> .The fact that you are gleefully supporting SUV driving equestrians
..>
..> Liar. I never said that. You FABRICATED it. Liar.
..
..Most equestrians that I know drive large SUV's (Tahoes, Suburbans, and
..Escalades, mostly). They need them to haul their horse trailers. Your post
..is celebrating a "victory" by these same people, thus you are supporting SUV
..drivers. Sorry if you are oblivious to the connection.

BS.

1. I am not supporting them. I just reported what happened.
2. It doesn't take an SUV to ride a horse. I've ridden horses, and I have never
owned an SUV.

..GG
..
..>
..> .illustrates the depths of your hypocrisy and obsession, but that's
..nothing
..> .new to long-time readers.
..> .
..> .BTW - do you have any close relationships in the real world?
..(girlfriends,
..> .boyfriends, etc.). Or, is this what your life is all about?
..> .
..> .GG
..> .
..> .> .GG
..> .> .
..> .> .> Not only did we accomplish a lot, but we generated a LOT of good
..will
..> .for
..> .> .the
..> .> .> equestrians on the part of the Parks. I had received a couple of
..> ."secret"
..> .> .> phone calls from people who were sitting on that dais last night who
..> .were
..> .> .> worried about the MB threat and wanted me to make sure and bring
..people
..> .to
..> .> .> support
..> .> .> them. The horse people out did themselves, were courteous (which I
..had
..> .> .> stressed when I prepped them), well spoken for the most part and
..> .> .represented all
..> .> .> kinds of races and income levels as well. It couldn't have been
..> .better.
..> .> .>
..> .> .> After the presentation had started, I got up to go to the bathroom
..(the
..> .> .curse
..> .> .> of the teeny bladder) when City Councilperson ... hopped out of
..his/her
..> .> .seat
..> .> .> and grabbed my arm. "Don't you worry about a thing," he/she
..whispered,
..> .> ."I'm
..> .> .> going
..> .> .> to take care of you horse people. No mountain bikers on my watch."
..> .> .>
..> .> .> It was a great moment when he/she got up and stuck it to the bikers
..and
..> .> .everyone
..> .> .> in the audience cheered! The whole thing was very gratifying to me.
..It
..> .> .was my
..> .> .> night, a culmination of my years of work, personal credibility and
..PR.
..> .> .The
..> .> .> mountain bikers were completely out done. Jim Hausenaur was there,
..> .> .although I
..> .> .> didn't see him. I loved that, he's such a lying jerk.
..> .> .>
..> .> .> I didn't speak because everyone else made all the point that were
..> .needed
..> .> .to
..> .> .> be made, plus it's so much better when there's new input instead of
..the
..> .> .same
..> .> .> old faces all the time. I imagine that I'll probably be on the
..> .citizens
..> .> .> oversight committee and will have all the time in the world to speak
..> .then.
..> .> .>
..> .> .> I was SO BUSY glad handing and thanking people for being there, that
..I
..> .> .didn't
..> .> .> even get to see all those who were there, plus afterwards I was
..mobbed
..> .and
..> .> .> was one of the last to leave.
..> .> .>
..> .> .> Today I was staggeringly tired. I was too wired to sleep well, and
..> .dizzy
..> .> .when
..> .> .> I got up. I rode around the trails and encountered lots of folks
..from
..> .the
..> .> .> meeting last night. I made a big point of thanking them and letting
..> .them
..> .> .know
..> .> .> that without each and every one of them present, we couldn't have
..> .> .accomplished
..> .> .> what we did in such a short amount of time. YES!!!
..> .> .>
..> .> .> We got 6 years worth of work done in a couple of hours. The meeting
..> .> .wasn't
..> .> .> just about MBers on our trails, but was about a Master Plan for the
..> .next
..> .> .25
..> .> .> years in the Park. There were lots of issues to be dealt with.
..> .> .>
..> .> .> It was a good to see how united our equestrian community was (as
..well
..> .as
..> .> .> home owners associations, the Observatory, the dogwalkers, the
..hikers,
..> .and
..> .> .many
..> .> .> more who were also opposed to bikes on our trails). The lesson is
..that
..> .you
..> .> .> don't have to put up with bikers on your trails in order to have
..trail
..> .> .access
..> .> .> for
..> .> .> horses.
..> .> .>
..> .> .> It sort of restored my faith in the process. It looked discouraging
..> .there
..> .> .for
..> .> .> a while.
..> .> .>
..> .> .> Yeeeaaaah! I'm so proud of everyone. Plus they had a good time
..> .> .participating
..> .> .> in the planning of their own Park trails, etc. Makes them more
..willing
..> .to
..> .> .do
..> .> .> it again in the future.
..> .> .>
..> .> .> ===
..> .> .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> .> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> .> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..> .> .>
..> .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..> .> .
..> .>
..> .> ===
..> .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..> .>
..> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..> .
..>
..> ===
..> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..>
..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 18:42:49 +1200, Westie <[email protected]> wrote:

..Mike Vandeman wrote:
..> On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 19:05:32 +1200, Westie <[email protected]> wrote:
..>
..
..> .> Obviously for that particular park, they feel that MB riders can't leave
..> .> the place as they found it, and that they needed to be limited in their
..> .> use. At least horse **** goes away after a short period of time.....
..> .
..> .I've been around horses for enough years to wonder what on earth these
..> .people were thinking when they decided to ban bikes and not horses.
..> .Frankly, I'd rather have to pass insane cyclists on the trails than
..> .horses. Horses are too unpredictable at the best of times and as for
..> .the trail damage? Who on earth thought that horses don't cause much
..> .trail damage? I guess it's a question of volume. There can't be very
..> .many horses using the trails.
..>
..> Probably true. But at least horses are living organisms. Bikes are inanimate
..> oblects, and have NO RIGHTS!
..
..What?! Now you're advocating trail rights for living organisms versus
..inanimate objects? You, my fine little furry friend, are completely
..loosing the plot.
..I guess you should tell the horse riders that they aren't allowed their
..inanimate saddles, horseshoes or bridles next. Nor their horsefloats or
..vehicles.

Why don't YOU tell them?
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 02:09:19 GMT, "Scott Ehardt"
<SCEhardt--((REM@VE))--SCEhardt.com> wrote:

.."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> Proof? In fact, IMBA has a study on their web site showing that the vast
..> MAJORITY of mountain bikers don't obey the law.
..
..Would you care to provide a link?

They removed it. I guess they realized it wasn't favorable to mountain biking.
The study was done in Marin County. The vast majority of mountain bikers rode
through a stream, in spite of a sign saying to use the bridge.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande